Primary school choices... Goose Green... Heber... Arghh!

[tarafitness]

So when we moved to the area many moons ago, I assumed that if we had kids, they would just go to our closest non-faith school - Goose Green Primary - which was at that point thought of quite favourably. Then we had kids, and our eldest is due to start reception next year, and I am totally stumped.

I was put off by reports of Goose Green doing poorly in recent years, and thought our best bet was the consistently well performing Heber primary. I then heard good things about the new Harris school and figured I'd end up putting that at the top of our list. I almost completely discounted Goose Green, being impressed by Harris' slick website and just how new and lovely it all seemed, but thought I should pop along anyway, just to give myself a rounded view of what's on offer.

Well, I'm glad I did visit! I was completely unprepared for how much I actually liked the school. The new head, Simon Wattam is very likeable and impressive, and seems to have a great track record, having been co-head at the excellent John Donne primary school for 10 years. He is clearly going to be offering stability to a school that has no doubt suffered as a result of having something like 4 heads in the past 4 years?? The school is also now part of the Communitas Trust, sharing things like information, support and best practices. So that's a real positive development.

The school has a nice feel to it, the children and staff look happy and lively in the early years rooms. I liked the reception setup with the freeflow between the inside and outside, and also within the two classes: small group work seems to span both too, so both sets of teachers get to know all the children in the year.

The art and music building - and specialist teachers for both - were also very appealing, and the playground is a good size with a great climbing frame. It was also a nice touch to have refreshments afterwards, and the chance to talk to leadership team staff, as well as PTA members too, who were able to offer a friendly and candid viewpoint on their own experiences as parents with pupils there over the past few years. That was all very positive.

Less positive is the fact that it's on a main road, but apparently there is going to be a living ivy 'Green Screen' installed in the spring, to filter out exhaust emissions.

I was also put off by the fact that we were only shown the reception and nursery rooms. It made me wonder if they felt there was something to hide? All other schools we viewed (with the exception of the Belham, as It's multi site) conducted a tour of the whole building.

I recently went back to Goose Green with my partner, and requested that we view the rest of the school. The head said he hadn't suggested it before, because he thought we'd only been I interested in seeing the early years classes. I wanted to see if they had a nice library, like Heber does. They do, it's lovely, just unfortunately not open during lunch and break, though apparently this will change too (which is good as the library was one of the favourite hangouts in school, of a year six Heber schoolgirl who showed us round).

They also have an impressive looking ICT room, and the hallway walls are adorned in colourful artwork. One of the halls was done up with vines like a rainforest, and two classrooms we went past resembled caves from a recent project. There is clearly a strong creative streak running through the school. The steel pan band sounded great!

You'd have thought the class teachers and students had actually been primed for our visit, there was a real air of calm but also enthusiastic learning, and lots of engagement between teachers and pupils. So why weren't prospective parents shown round before? It seems a real oversight, and such a shame too. It's like Goose Green doesn't want to attract new parents!! The prospectus was due to appear on the website last month and hasn't materialised, and I'm sure most parents have made up their minds by now, with the deadline being in a few weeks?

I don't understand why Goose Green isn't selling itself better? It seems like the school has had a rough patch but there is so much going for it now. Maybe they're just hoping for a year of calm bedding-in before they blow their own trumpet?

It's left us in a bit of a quandary. Do we take a leap of faith with Goose Green, and hope that it really is turning its fortunes round, and that the new head can deliver. It's only key stage 2 that they've fallen behind in recent times, so it could be that by the time the new early years have ascended the ranks, it'll be back up there again as it once was?

Or do we select Heber as our first choice, with its proven track record, lovely happy looking children, but in a building that's seen better days and could do with some serious love/money spent on it. There didn't feel the same buzz in classrooms as at Goose Green, and I wasn't able to ask any of the multitude of questions I want answered, because it was a couple of year 6 children showing us around.

We'll well out of catchment for Goodrich, as well as The Belham (very sad as I was really impressed with their vision and ethos), and Harris just left me a little cold. It doesn't feel the most nurturing environment. It felt like an office block, with very little outside space . I'm not particularly interested in my young son having perfect cursive writing, being able to tie a real tie and learn how to play the violin (which is mandatory, every child will get one). Children start school far too early in this country, especially compared with the rest of Europe, I want to know that his happiness is being catered for. I have also heard that Harris (on the whole, not necessarily this school) don't have a great track record with their staff, and I want to know my son's teacher's wellbeing is also being taken into account.

We're going back to Heber in a few weeks, to be taken round by someone from leadership team. So I'll get to ask all my questions, and I'm really hoping that I'll fall in love with the school then, and make my life a whole lot easier. Much better to bank on a safe bet, right?! :)

I'd welcome any thoughts from parents of kids at either Heber or Goose Green. Thanks, Tara.

[MaMani]

I am similarly stuck. Goodrich, Heber, Harris, all seem good schools, with their unique strong points. The recent SATS put Heber just ahead of Goodrich this year, but I am loathe to put too much emphasis on this. Obviously I want to pick a successful school, but also want a school that my daughter can thrive and be happy at, with a good community. Goodrich is larger and has a decent amount of outside space. Harris is much smaller.....and Heber's outside space apparently limited too..... I just don't know. I guess they will all be okay! Plus I have no idea what the catchments for Harris are like as I think it's the first year on the new premises.

[Cora]

Have you looked at Bessemer Grange? A good balance and not on a main road....

[hpsaucey]

If you?re struggling to decide which you prefer that suggests that either would be ok perhaps. What does your heart tell you would suit your child better? Are you realistically near enough to either/ both? Are you prepared to sit on a waiting list for one if not?

Good luck.

Hp

[redjam]

I think the good news is that you're lucky - there are lots of good primary schools round here so you're not going to make a 'wrong' choice!

I can't speak for other schools and I'm sure other parents from Goose Green, Goodrich etc will come on and tell you about their USPs. But as far as Heber goes, I've been really happy with it for both my kids and I always find myself wanting to sing its praises in this kind of thread as I don't think it always does the best job at selling itself. It was sweet that they got the Year 6 kids to show round prospective parents on their recent open day but I don't think a lot of people realised that the senior teachers were available afterwards for a coffee and chat when the tours finished, so many parents left without talking to the staff. You're definitely doing the right thing going back and seeing one of the leadership team, OP.

To pick up on some specific things you mention about Goose Green, which also apply to Heber - Heber also has a freeflow arrangement between Reception classes and outside space, so same as GG. It also has its own specialist music, art (and sport) teachers. It has outside space around three sides of the building so the playgrounds are divided into four - one Nursery, one Reception, and two bigger ones for Key Stages 1 and 2. The kids are divided by age range so you don't get older kids jostling little ones. The Nursery outside space has recently been refurbished with new climbing frames etc and we got a CGS grant to 'green' the rest of the playgrounds and build a greenhouse so the school now runs gardening sessions in the spring/summer. I agree the Victorian school building itself is a bit scruffy round the edges but I am always astounded at the creativity of the teachers (and kids) in the way they decorate the classrooms - you should see their World Book Day classroom doors/portals to other worlds!

I could go on but you get the gist - I'm a happy customer. No school is perfect but they all seem pretty great round here so it's a good problem to have. In the end you just have to go with your gut instinct (not very helpful advice, I know). Best of luck with your choice!

ETA: I wouldn't let a school's lack of marketing prowess put you off - they're about teaching, not selling, and in a background of budget cuts I'd be wary of any primary school that prioritised spending money on glossy brochures and slick sales pitches as opposed to teaching and facilities. So try not to let that put you off any school you visit...

[poch]

How you feel about the head and the deputy head is really important (so meeting the senior leadership at Heber definitely a good idea). Sort of an obvious thing to say, but they really do have a massive impact on the culture and atmosphere in a school, and on the types of teachers who get hired. As people have said, we're getting spoilt for choice in ED, but I also do remember those feelings of confusion. Good luck!

[GG governors]

Hi @Tara, we're really pleased that you've been able to visit the school and see it at first hand.

You're right that the last couple of years have been challenging, but we are really proud of the wonderful children and staff at the school and the breadth of learning we offer (including superb art and music as well as much more throughout our curriculum). Joining Communitas has been a major step forward for Goose Green, bringing us into a supportive Trust with a strong track record, which shares our values of a broad and rich learning experience for all of our children.

We are working to make it easy to find out more about life at the school. We're working to put more information on our website, our Twitter feed has sprung back into life (

) and you can see some feedback from one of our parents here: http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,1883433,1885297#msg-1885297. (Definitely more to do though!)

The Friends of Goose Green (FOGGS) are also on Twitter and Facebook and are doing great stuff fundraising for the Green Screen. They really add to the life of our wonderful school!

Best of luck with choosing your child's school and we would love to welcome you to Goose Green if you decide to choose us.

Rob

[klove]

Hi Tara, we're so lucky all the schools are good around here and your child would probably be happy in most of them! And definitely go with your gut instinct, when we first moved to the area we assumed our kids would go to our very local primary school but I absolutely hated it when I looked around. Schools can change a lot in a few years.

My son is in Harris reception and, if you look past the travelodge feel, it's a really caring environment, both nurturing and stimulating. The teachers are amazing; my son's classroom teacher knows him so well and genuinely wants him to just try hard and be happy. The fact it's a 2 minute walk away is a massive plus and there's something to be said for going for your nearest school.

But apparently Goose Green school is getting the Dulwich Picture Gallery Pavillion installed in its playground next summer, massive plus! If you like Goose Green, go for it, don't be put off by previous reputations, a good new head teacher can turn it around.

[goldilocks]

Hi Tara

For all the angst you have when choosing a school, its really hard to predict what will happen there in 2,3, 4 years time. Staff move on and things can change. I think that the best you can do is chose a school you are happy with for now. Don't underestimate how much better life will be if school is closer too. We went for our closest school - its approx. 3 mins from our house and I appreciate that whenever I have to go in for meetings, plays etc as well as getting the kids to and from school

[Pugwash]

My daughter in Orpington was keen for a particular school in the area for her daughter to attend. It had good OFSTED ratings etc. She visited it, was shown around by the head, asked a few questions and decided that she did not like the ethos of the school as too regimented. As she had experience in working with young people with special needs, she asked the head about their SN provision. Head stated only one child with SN in school (autistic) but he did not stand out. Daughter went to another school, asked the same questions, did not have an outstanding OFSTED but a nicer atmosphere, My grand daughter was very happy there, was found to be above average intelligence and was given more challenging work to do. The same grand daughter achieved A* AB A level grades and is now applying to University to study Biomedicine. OFSTED ratings only give a guide - it is what you feel most suitable for your child's needs.

[Norfolkvillas]

Hi I wanted to post on two counts.

Firstly, to say I am a big advocate of "leaps of faith" and going with what your gut tells you - if you really loved GG, then don't be swayed / put off by the fact folks might not this year be clamouring for a place - as others have said, schools change really fast. I have read great things about the new head too and I'm sure GG will be back to being oversubscribed before too long. We took a leap of faith to be part of the first Harris cohort - both my head and my heart said it was an amazing opportunity, but it still felt like I had quite an internal battle against 'herd mentality' as I had a place at a much more well established local school as well. I haven't regretted our decision for a single second.

Secondly, to say that whilst I totally agree that our boxy building isn't going to win any design awards, the school is in no way 'cold' - my kids come home bubbling with enthusiasm for learning, and I love that the whole value system is based on respect and rewarding effort rather than achievement, building an 'I can do anything if I try' mindset in the children.

Good luck, as others have said, we're so lucky to have brilliant primaries across ED, I'm sure you'll be happy wherever you choose / secure a place.

[Jellybeanz]

I know people with children at Goose Green and Heber and both pleased.

Go with your instincts!

[Coach Beth]

Just give you some perspective ... my child was at GG in year 6 two years ago when things were at the low point. No consistency with year six having different teachers thoroughout the year and although we had been big supporters of the school since our child was in reception if he hadn?t been in his final year there I would have moved him.

Two years on, he is in year eight and doing well academically. He is on par with many of his friends who come from all the other primary schools and is not behind in anything except maths and that is particularly challenging for him due to a mild learning challenge that makes holding and processing mathmatical calculations abit harder. Personally it?s given me a lot of perspective which I wish I had more of when he was in year six! One really positive thing I can credit GG with is nurturing his talent in art - he has taken this to secondary school and his art teacher there has been hugely encouraging about his talent and also his technique which I wholly credit to the amazing art teacher at GG who is still there

Anyway school seems like it is much more stable - I chatted to friends at the annual carols on the green last night and people seem pretty happy with new head. Lots of parents sticking with the school which is a vote of confidence.

[flocker spotter]

The best piece of advice I had from a headteacher was that most public opinions about schools are usually about 5 years out of date. She said this about secondary, but I think it equally applies to primary. The current senior leadership team, the staff that they support and motivate, the children progressing through the school now and their parents, who make up the rest of the school community, are what best reflects a school today. It sounds like you liked all of these, so you should go with it.

[wouldloveasnooze]

Hey Tara - just reading through this thread it is so apparent that we are incredibly lucky to have such great schools in the area. So much love for all of them it seems!

I've got three children, two of which, my son and daughter are in years 4 and 2 (respectively) at Goose Green, and both started in Nursery. It was lovely to read your post that speaks of the school with such positivity, as I know that all of the parents I have grown to know there all feel much enthusiasm and love for Goose Green! The sense of community, great music and art (would you believe these aren't lessons in all schools these days), great staff, plus the way parents are welcomed into the classrooms regularly were all a draw for us. My children have flourished there and grown to be confident, caring children, with a strong bond to the school.

You're right that there's been quite a lot of change over the years we've been there, and that had an obvious effect on the last OFSTED and also the confidence of some of the parents at times I'm sure, but one thing that was constant throughout was communication with individual teachers, particularity those that have remained in leadership roles at the school. Personally, I don't think that any of this change affected my children's learning or enjoyment of the school at all. The whole GG community are really excited about the future under Simon Wattam's leadership (along with the rest of the Goose Green leadership team of course!).

We love it, but pop in and find out if it's for your family too - the PTA (FOGGS) are always happy to chat!