Full-time stay at home mum's - a dying breed?

[littleEDfamily]

Yep - you're being paranoid sophie :-) We live in the country now and I would say most of the mums at my 4 year old's nursery are SAHMs, and they seem totally cool with it - and look ar me like some sort of madwoman as I fly in to collect her 10 minutes late looking like I have been dragged backwards through a hedge!

I do think it's different in London though, where I think there is subtle pressure not to be a just SAHM (mainly I think as the majority of mums do work outside the home). I've never been a 100% SAHM (I work for myself), but I do know that during mat leave with number 1 I was not a happy bunny, so even if society had worshipped at the alter of mummy, I couldn't have done it (full time staying at home with kids and no other business/ professional interests) long term.

But I really don't think there is a perfect solution to all of this stuff. I have found I am much happier since I accepted that at times everything will seem totally unworkable and I will feel exhausted and paranoid that I haven't got the balance right and that I am going to go crazy and my kids will hate me. But it has taken me 4 long years to realise that I won't find that nirvana of perfect career/ perfect homelife and it's better to just embrace the chaos.

I have nothing but respect for fulltime SAHMs, as long as they're doing it because that's the option they find the most satisfying (or of course, they have no option but to stay at home full time, in which I case I empathise, as it's an awful feeling to have to be a fulltime homemaker when it isn't 'you'.)

Anyway, rambling now.....one of my more pointless posts for a while....

[minder]

Anna - it might not be so difficult to get the quals needed to become a registered childminder, but it's even harden to sustain this. Ofsted registered doesn't just mean for parents "claiming back tax" it's a whole lot more than that.

Some of us choose it as a career. Before having my 3 children, I worked for 12 years in various secretarial/government roles.

I stayed at home for 5/6 years but decided then would never go back to that again, as didn't want to leave my children.

Since then I've found a different kind of work, but something that I really enjoy.

[SummerMum]

I've been a full time Mum since 2005, when my first child was born. We have three, ages 6,4 ad 3. For the first year at least it felt like a wonderful gift to be able to have the choice not to work and be at home. I have to remind myself now that being at home means that we have been able to live overseas for my husbands work, and not to have to keep on taking maternity leave having three children in a quick hurry!

Now they are all a little older, I am aware of the sacrifice I have made - I couldn't realistically go back to my old job, and during arguments about this, when I've talked about feeling frustrated at being at home, DH has told me I could only get a job in supermarket (OK it was during a row, I'm sure he wouldn't say that to me over a candle lit supper, and sorry to suggest that a supermarket job is the lowest of the low. He said it for the drama)... where I remind him I have a degree and post-grad qualifications. Anyway, I look forward to the day soon when I will start looking in to career move next, which I think will probably involve working in a school setting, to allow for me to still be with the kids.

I don't regret making the choice to be at home. I did the make the decision for my children, but I also can't throw it back at them when they're teenagers ('I GAVE UP MY CAREER FOR YOU!!!'), because really I did it for me. I would make the same choice again. But it is boring, lonely, unglamorous, thankless. Me and the kids have loads of friends locally, we've always been busy on the playgroup, school circuit etc, but it is lonely, as no matter what at some point you're on your own with children, who you love, but who are children, and not adults. In fact, what I would change (if I was to have my time again...!) is that rather than take on a career in the city, working long hours and a large amount of travel, I would train as a teacher. Which is the last thing I wanted to do when at school! I went to an academic girls school, and we did not talk about how to combine motherhood with a career, we talked about the world being open to us, and going for our goals. I wonder what conversations I will have with my daughter about this...

Anyway, lunch time thought there. Back to the little one now!

[akc74]

Such a relevant and interesting thread for me - thanks for starting it Sophie.

Nearly a year on, of my NCT group of 6, 2 are about to return to work part-time - probably not statistically typical, but there seem to be quite a few SAHMs round here, from what I can see.

I always thought I'd be back at work (albeit 3 days a week) by now. However I was made redundant in December and we have decided that I will stay at home for the foreseeable future. When asked what I do though, I find it hard to give a straight answer - I worked hard in marketing for about 15 years, and still struggle to let go of that big part of me. I am contemplating freelancing but can't quite figure out how it would work.

My husband is also a teacher (a reasonably senior one thankfully) so we have had a lifestyle change - but that has largely been enforced anyway. Possibly the biggest extravagance of our previous life was eating out, cinema, theatre etc. which we now we can't really do very often anyway.

I have no idea when will be a good time to start working again (interesting comments about being home when they go to school) and whether it'll involve a big career change. For now I need to try to relax into my decision and enjoy it, and to savour this precious time with my son.

[cuppa tea]

For me it would help being a SAHM if I didn't have the same respect in society as a dustman! (no offense to dustman) I do wonder if we would be treated differently if we were (shock, horror!) paid for looking after our own children, as that seems to be the only thing that commands some kind of esteem. Why am I embarrassed to say what I do for a living? Even if I have to fill out a form and put 'homemaker' I feel myself cringe. Ridiculous I know. I love being a SAHM and sometimes I don't love it, but I am sure I would feel like that about any job this challenging. It is the hardest job I have ever done..and the most important. What can be more crucial that raising the next generation? Wish the government would recognise this!

I have found plenty of mums that work part time who can come out to play. Most people work 2/3 days with young children, so you can juggle play dates around and find someone about most days in ED. Though my son is 4 now, so it's taken several years to make lots of friends.

[susyp]

really encouraging thread as I was beginning to think that maybe I should look into getting a job - i took redundancy from my wellpaid but super stressful job i hated, when I had my daughter. Then when she was a babe I got a serious illness and that basically put paid to any thoughts for a while of going back to work - I just couldn't contemplate leaving her when I didn't know how long I would have with her. But as time goes on people have started asking me a lot when I am going back and so I started thinking maybe I should. I definitely think my friends think I am slightly odd.

All of my friends work and I haven't made any friends with SAHM although I do chat to quite a few people at groups. These days, as my daughter is 3, our play dates are much more focused on who SHE gets on with and increasingly her friends are with their nannies, I suppose as they are getting older and more and more mums go back to work . \

But because I got ill, we are not going to have any more children ,and I feel that I really don;t want her to be coming home to anyone apart from me when she starts school, as she is an only child that seems quite important.

So this thread is great as it's re-inspired me to stay at home. We can afford it by living a moderate lifestyle and it seems a small price to pay. It may not last forever as my husband is freelance so I am trying to make the most of it while his work is going well. It can be a bit lonely but I do enjoy being at home. Not quite sure what I will do when she starts school ful time - but that's 18 months away and so much can change....

Though I am very much looking forward to the 3 hours a day to myself though from september when she starts nursery school! Clean house, finally..... Exercise finally..... Relaxed coffees, finally...!

Susypx

[bluesuperted]

Definitely?a very interesting thread and nice to see others in similar boat.?Sophie you start some good'uns!

I was reading a bit of Affluenza (Oliver James) this weekend (interesting enough book, I like the central anti-consumerist premise but it can be a bit clunky) and he makes a lot of the point that being a SAHM doesn't command respect in society.?What was really interesting is he talks about how many women claim they are going back to work to do 'something for them' when many (not all) freely admit they'd rather be caring for their children. He questions why earning money for a corporation, even when many consider that their jobs aren't that enjoyable, is much more seen?as doing 'something for yourself' than raising a family and staying at home while your babies are small. I know for me, I'm doing something for my son AND also something for me by staying home: this is what I want actually and not a penalty! Definitely hardest but best joh in my experience so far. I'm sure he'd still thrive with good alternative care but a) I'm a control freak and want to do it myself, my way at the moment and b) I can't bear to leave him and that's the bottom line for me at the moment!

[nunheadmum]

On the question of staying at home for them when they're at school. I've got 2 kids (5 and 3) and went back to work part-time when they were about 7 months each time. For me I really didn't think being a SAHM would work - my job was a big part of me and I really felt that I'd resent it if I gave it up. Also hubby was self employed so I've had to keep my hand in, in case I ever need to take over as main breadwinner.

But I was made redundant at the end of last year and decided to take 'a couple' of months off to catch up with myself. It coincided with my eldest starting school. 4 months on, I'm still not working - it's hard to say how much is market conditions and how much is choice. But I have certainly felt that my eldest has been happier having me around to do the school runs etc. It's hard to put a pin on what exactly it is that makes it better for her. And when I'm not there, daddy works at home so he does pick up etc so she's not exactly having a hard time. But I think, certainly at the start, the school environment is so different for them, it really takes it out of them and having mummy there to give you a cuddle and a slice of home comfort is nice for them. How long that continues to be the case, I'm not sure - I'm not there yet.

I certainly feel that I appreciate the kids more, now that I get some time to myself, to catch up on all the jobs. I think that's a real plus of being a SAHM with school kids - there's less of that constant conflict between the different things that you need to do while also looking after little ones full time.

That said, the decision as to whether to go back to work or stay at home is a really complex one and I'm not sure which side of the fence I'm going to end up on.

[cuppa tea]

"He questions why earning money for a corporation, even when many consider that their jobs aren't that enjoyable, is much more seen as doing 'something for yourself' than raising a family and staying at home while your babies are small."

I think this is because we are bringing in a wage and as a society we value money and things more than people, sadly.

It's all rather confused if you ask me. Though I can totally understand women wanting to go back to work too. On some days I do because it's bloody hard looking after little kids! Often monotonous. Just to have a lunch hour would be bliss. But it's lovely spending every moment with them too. I wouldn't change it. I always felt that the choice to work was a bit of a myth for me, when you are still chained to a desk. I have a boring job though!

[susyp]

how does it feel when they start school full time . I'm worried I;m going to be rattling around the house getting depressed. and certainly I worry that people will wonder what I'm going with myself.

the other thing that was making me vaguely think about going back to work was the way in which my husband views me. He is very keen for me to stay at home - no issue there - but whereas in my job I was perhaps slightly senior to him, certainly better paid (different roles, same industry), now he gets to come home and moan about the dust, or something really inane, which he would never have done when I worked. In myself I have no issues with not working, but I do question the way it makes people view me, even subconsciously. And for example when I go for dinner with ex work friends, or anyone really who is into their job - they do talk work a lot and I really have little to say apart from talking about my little one. How do you keep yourself interesting to people who aren't obsessed with, or don;t have children?! I;m so completely besotted with my daughter that really I dont think about much else!

Weird as in myself I am probably happier than I've been but I do worry I;m becoming a bit closed off from the world. I rarely watch the news anymore and that for me is a big change.

Susypx

[The Nappy Lady]

Susyp,

You will be surprised how fast the day goes - 9am to 3.30pm is really not that long..and if you plan to go to the gym/yoga/aerobics or whatever, plus housework, food shopping, and maybe a bit of voluntary work at the school - helping with reading or involvement with PTA etc. You could always look for some work locally that fits in with school hours for a couple of days a week if you really feel the need - but you have to then think about what you would do for childcare during school holidays.

I have to say, I'm so glad to be around for the school run - at the moment I do the drop off and the pick up....if in the future I had to drop anything I think my first choice would be to put the girls into Breakfast Club, meaning I could drop them off at 8am and extend my working day (or free time) by 1.5 hours that way. I'd still do the afternoon pick up though for a number of reasons;

1) It gives me the chance to chat to the teacher any time I feel I need to check on something whether it be learning related, or otherwise and it was particuarly helpful during that first year when they are settling in and often start off loving school, then going through a big dip about 2 months in and start begging not to go each day (this does pass).

2) I get to know other parents in the school & chat in the playground - finding out how they are finding their child's progress etc.

3) I feel much more connected with the school in general & what is going on, I am able to pop into the office if I need to.....if all this was being relayed to me via a childminder or notes home etc. it would be much harder to keep track

4) - and this is the big one - I can arrange after school playdates for at least 1 night a week....I think this is so important for anyt child if at all possible, it helps them form those important friendships, and for me to also get a real feel for who her friends are too, and how each friendship works. One of my daughters friends is just as strong willed as she is, and it is so funny watching the power struggle between them, yet they are great pals. Susyp, for your daughter I think this will be such a wonderful bonus, for you and her, as you can allow her the chance to develop some really close friendships who can make up for any lack of siblings to play with (I don't mean this in a horrible way - there are pros and cons to being an only child, (and times I love time alone with my daughter - it makes the reading/homework a heck of a lot easier too!) but I have seen how much my daughter loves having friends back to play, and it's fantastic when they just disappear off and leave you to get on with other stuff. You can even start to have Friday night play dates & sleepovers, and hopefully the other parents return the favour, so you get a night off AND a lie in the next day which is FANTASTIC!

Sorry, I'm digressing a bit...but I never expected it to be so important and have been very surprised by it.

I had the first 10 months off with DD1, then went back to work full time in the City - so 8am drop off and 6pm pick up from the childminder....she did just fine, but I hated it with a vengence. The grand plan was to have another baby ASAP, get my second round of full maternity pay and then go part time...but the best laid plans....my daughter was 2 and there I was, still working full time, still hating it, and no 2nd baby on the way....so I went self employed and found work locally 3 days a week....I was so much happier, and really felt I'd got the balance right. When DD1 was 4 and a bit I had a second daughter (hurrah!) and so I took a year off, then went back to work very slowly - 1 day a week, then 2, then 3 and eventually up to 4...but now only working school hours because my eldest was doing full days by then, and my youngest took her place at the childminders.

Before I had children I was convinced I wanted to be a full time Mum, but to be honest I think I'd go a little insane if I was - much as I love my girls, I find the time away makes me a better Mum when I'm with them. However, whilst it may appear I have it all, at times I feel like I am juggling so many balls I don't know whether I'm coming or going....I think once they are both in school it will get a lot easier, as at least I'll be dropping them both off and picking them both up from the same place....until the oldest goes to secondary school...eek!

I think it helps being self employed, because each day I work it is my choice, and if I need a day off to go on a school trip etc. I can take it, without having to put in holiday requests etc. etc. that's a good feeling...though I do worry about the lack of sick pay and holiday pay.....

As nunheadmum says, the whole issue is so complex.

It does occur to me that more Freelance Mums should get together and maybe do a 1 day a week childcare swap to help each other out - if you get on and the 'vibes' feel right/children get on etc. this is especially easy to do if 2 children go to the same school nursery (or full time later on), so it's just a case of 1 parent doing the pick up and care to the end of the day one day, and the other the next. It can be easier having two children playing together, then one expecting you to entertain them in my experience!

Good luck everyone, whatever route you're taking.

[susyp]

lovely thought through post molly thanks for that.

v interesting what everyone is saying about being around for the school run, I hadn't thought about that at all.

susypx

[susyp]

lovely thought through post molly thanks for that.

v interesting what everyone is saying about being around for the school run, I hadn't thought about that at all.

susypx

no idea how this got posted twice. bed beckons x

[Ridgley]

I think it will become more of a dying bread, with this econmic climate some families cannot afford to stay at home due to financial pressures. If you are a stay at home mum and can afford to then I see nothing wrong with this at all its just about balances I never looked down at anyone who stays at home as it is a very tough job to do and fair play to you that do.

[Belle]

Thing is though, sometimes you're worse off going back to work by the time you've paid childcare! Esp in London.

[louloulabelle]

I simply wanted to bring my children up myself! No offence to anyone as each to their own but we decided we would make every effort to live off one salary and I'm now a sahm to two under 2 and a half. I will go back to work in some capacity when they reach school age but for now - as an older mum- I'm enjoying raising my girls and seeing them become people! I'm very lucky and am grateful everyday.

[mirabelle]

Any stay at home dads out there?? My husband and I are expecting our first child at the end of July and I'm planning to take 7 months off and then go back to work either full time or 4 days a week - of course I have no idea how I will feel about the whole thing as this will be my first baby, but staying at home isn't really an option for us as I am the main bread winner. I don't have a problem with this as I'm lucky enough to have a job I enjoy and find fulfilling + the company I work for, being not for profit and charity owned, is very family friendly and flexible, so I won't be under pressure to work long hours and will have the option to work from home when needed for example.

I earn a decent salary but nothing amazing for London, and the question of whether me going back to work will actually make financial sense given the cost of childcare is a real one... So it may actually make more sense for my husband to give up work and look after our child full time than for both of us to be working full time and paying for childcare... But the question is would he enjoy it? and taking time out of your career to look after your children is probably even more stigmatised when you're a man, so could potentially make it very hard for him to get back into work later on...

Such a dilemma! but hopefully we'll find a way around it... I guess everybody does!

[BeccaL]

My husband is a stay at home dad and has been since daughter was 5 months (she's now 6 years). They both loved it and it made it much easier for me to go back to work. Happy for you to pm me if any questions.

[sophiechristophy]

Just wanted to say I am feeling really blessed and happy to be a stay at home mum today - all the budgeting and hard moments feel very worth it right now. Sharing the positive vibes! xxx

[minder]

Staying at home meant just that for me - I couldn't afford to join a gym/aerobics but just put on all my old records and danced away. Gym/aerobics wasn't really thought of that much back in 1992 when I had my first so that's how much times have changed!

[sophiechristophy]

Minder - it's amazing how much fun stuff you can discover you already have when finances push you to be a little more creative than you might have been before!!

[Dudley]

I have also found this thread very interesting. I do not think SAHMs are a dying breed but of course with financial pressures they are harder to come by.

I am lucky enough to be a SAHM to my 20 month daughter but I have to say it is only the last 3 months that I have really come to love it. I think as children grow older, and you really see how they change and it becomes very rewarding.

I was also fortunate to have loved my old job (as a barrister) and I always intended to return but I have accepted now that it is not possible until at least school starts.

Once I made the decision to stay at home I was much happier. The indecision and attempting to look for childcare was crippling me.

However I do work one day a week during the academic year at the university and my husband takes our daughter. As this is limited just to 6 months a year, and one day a week if people ask if I work I usually reply no. But statistically I would not count as a full time SAHM (certainly not in the last census because of when it was carried out) but I do certainly consider myself one. So do not trust the statistics. Oh, and the day I work I definitely consider a holiday!

Here are my random observations on being SAHM

1) There are more of us than the statistics claim esp outside London;

2) If you are a SAHM do not apologise for it!

3) A lot of women who do work do so part-time;

4) For those women who do work full time they need (our) support as it cannot be easy;

5) SAHMs are very different to our Moms of yesteryear. Most our Moms will not have been lucky enough to have had careers before having children, or maybe have gone to University. Most of the SAHMs (in London anyway) will have had very rich experiences before getting married and having children;

6) Becoming a SAHM must be a voluntary decision;

7) Being a SAHM is not the same as being a house slave. This is very important.

Personally I do the meals, keep the house relatively clean (ok and I do the laundry) but I do not do major cleans.

Back in the 50?s women were abused by being made to stay at home and do everything in the house as well look after the children. In fact they were often expected to clean the house to the neglect of looking after the children (left at the back of the garden to cry while Mom got on with her chores). Do not let this happen. When both partners worked the housework was probably even - keep to this. I am lucky in that I have a cleaner who comes to my house to do the major job once very 2 weeks. I told my husband he could do this or he could do it, or it could stay dirty. And do not iron any shirts.

Seriously working husbands are not expected to hover their officers and clean the windows. Likewise SAHM job is to look after the child. That is not the same as mopping the floors!

Looking after your own child really is the most important job one can do. Think of the amount of money the state spends on education and how it is a key issue in every election. Well, parents are the primary educators. School comes in at a poor second. Why is that any education that occurs at home is not valued but once it enters the public sphere it is the most important thing in the world? You only have once chance to see you children grow up and shape them.

Time to yourself. You must make it. I took up the flute (one lesson every 2 weeks) as something new and challenging. This is a bit of an indulgence but if I did not do it I would have no time to myself. And it is something to talk about to others (other than about your darling child). There are always things you can do now- write a blog, or just hand over the monitor and go to the cinema on your own. It must be done.

SAHM ? enjoy and good luck.

[kylie6097]

i worked in a nursery for 3 years so i refuse to pay someone to do my job. what you pay out for in childcare you might aswell stay home.

my little one is now 10 months and i love being home with her. i see every little thing that she does, if she was at nursery i wouldnt see it. im her mummy so i will be exactly that :)

[minder]

I couldn't justify having a cleaner if I was a SAHM and also not do any ironing! With husband needing a shirt every day and three teenagers it's not possible to not do any ironing and cleaning!

[Fuschia]

I do think this thread is rather posted through an ED prism

The particular breed of ED sahm who still has a cleaner for eg is rather different to the many single parents who simply can't afford to work due to the benefit trap and lack of affordable childcare

So although in 2007 55% of women in

Couples returned to work when

Children were 1y, only 20% of single parents did

http://www.uel.ac.uk/icmec/presentations/documents/mike_brewer.ppt

Sahms are far from a dying breed if you look at it broadly

And I thInk mums who work full time might actually be a minority locZlly