need reassurance on Ivydale

[chantelle]

Hi, we are likely buying a house in Nunhead that will put us in catchment for Ivydale. I have seen lots of praise for the school here and on the Nunhead forum but I am still a bit concerned about the extremely below-average KS2 results, not to mention the pretty rubbish Ofsted, though I understand that was widely seen as flawed.

Is there just not enough focus on academics at Ivydale? And is anything being done to improve standards? because they seem to have consistently lagged despite an apparent rallying around the school by parents.

[oldnewromantic]

Try posting on www.nunheadforum.co.uk as well. Ivydale mums use that forum and there are a couple of threads already there. Welcome to Nunhead!!

[Fuschia]

There was a thread on here too

[Fuschia]

http://www.eastdulwichforum.co.uk/forum/read.php?29,586840,587234#msg-587234

[chantelle]

thanks, i have read everything said on any forum anywhere in spitting distance but I still don't quite understand why parents love the school if it's not actually getting results? ok i get the caring and friendly thing, for sure, but isn't it still a worry if standards are so sub-par? i don't mean to sound judgemental - I just want to understand.

[Fuschia]

You've read thd ofsted report? I haven't looked at the league tables but the trprt says results were average

Inspection was dec 2010

Current head started sept x2010

The results infer didvusdiom were from summer 2010

I think if the school acts on the areas if weakness it should do much better when reinspected

[supergolden88]

My daughter started at Ivydale this January in Reception. Like you I had (and to some extend still do) the same concerns.

In the end even though my daughter was also accepted at Turnham (which has far better results) my husband and I decided to send her to Ivydale. We liked the creative buzz surrounding the school, the community feel, the teaching staff and especially the children (and parents) that we met there. We also have neighbours whose kids just finished going there and they were very happy with the school.

I still have concerns - the school seems bit disorganised, I don't have a very clear idea of what is happening daily at my daughter's class and so on. But she is very happy there and excited to go in the mornings. She loves her teacher and has made lots of friends. All the parents I have met are very active in improving the school - I need to become more involved myself once baby no 2 is a bit older.

In terms of results I would say that the area is changing a lot and probably is quite different now to what it was 10 or 15 years ago. I think there has been a lot of staff changeover at the school which hasn't helped. A strong head would make a big difference in the long run.

I would say if you are uncomfortable about sending your children to Ivydale the best thing would be to visit the school and perhaps speak to some of the parents. If you don't get a good feeling then don't think Ivydale is the only choice in Nunhead (depending on where you live). Hollydale is a good school and Turnham as well (in Lewisham). I am not saying this to put you off Ivydale by the way just to say you have options.

Nunhead itself is a lovely place - we have been very happy here having moved from East Dulwich to get more space.

[Fuschia]

Results under discussion I meant

Damn iPhone

Yes I can see the % and trend in l4+ en and ma is disappointing though the avge points score isn't bad

But remember the results are evidence of what happened in

The school in the years preceding 2010

The ofsted report and parental views reflect was has been

Happening more recently

Why not arrange a visit to the school and see if you can chat to the new head about your concerns?

[nunheadmum]

There has been a real change in the intake at Ivydale over the past few years. The area itself has changed in its social make up and this has been reflected in the kids at the school. The results of the older years at the school reflect more where the school was in the past - it's hoped that this will pick up as the newer intake works it's way through the school (although I would also say that it's a school that's not purely academically focused and tries to bring out the best in all the pupils, in lots of different ways).

The new head also seems to have a slightly different focus - the school has done great things in art, music and literacy and now it's looking to also increase the opportunities in the areas of maths and science too.

My eldest has just started at the school and I had qualms too when choosing a school - I heard a lot about the touchy feely stuff but wondered about the academic. But I've been impressed with what I've seen so far. It's a lovely class with lots of smashing kids who look genuinely delighted to see their teachers and while I often wonder what exactly they do (why will kids NEVER tell you what they did???), my LO is progressing well with the basic stuff and keeps talking about concepts and issues that I know we haven't covered before at home so I can only presume she's doing it at school.

If you want more info, why not contact the school and ask to see round or come along to some of the playgroups at the Children's centre (Mon & Weds am and Fri pm) where you'll doubtless meet other parents with kids at the school. As with any school, it's important to visit it and form your own impressions.

[chantelle]

thanks supergolden and nunheadmum (and others), i really appreciate these comments. I plan to visit the school asap because we are under pressure to get out of our rental house and hopefully into one of the lovely Nunhead homes we've seen. Also still toying with Honor Oak Park but Nunhead feels much more to me like the "next" East Dulwich/Peckham Rye. Leafier and more family-friendly, etc. Plus we'd still be near our beloved Peckham Rye Park.

supergolden - it's interesting that Turnham has such amazing results but my not very well-informed impression is that it seems to be boycotted by white middle class parents - maybe because of its location and the "more than 4/5ths ethnic minorities" that would make a white British child one of onlya few in their class? I think i also saw it described as "like a military academy" somewhere! I'd be curious to hear what you thought of it, if you want to post more or message me.

Fuschia - last KS2's were only 62% Level 4 Maths and Englsh, well below 73% national average. (and they've been consistently around that level for several years) I know that's not the whole story though with a school so I am really aiming to have an open mind - frankly my husband is the one obssessed with test results!

[supergolden88]

I was impressed by the teaching staff and the kids while visiting Turnham. I did not love the school building and play areas it did feel a bit prison-like but that's not really the point. In the end we decided that our daughter (who was only 4 1/2 when she started at Ivydale) would be best suited to Ivydale.

I would not want the school to be so focused on getting good exam results that all they do is groom the children to do just that ignoring areas such as pesonal development and creative expression.

Some schools are more focused on getting the best exan results and Ofsted reports. The first thing we were told while visiting Stillness (which is a very good school) was that the school had been featured on television and won awards. I know from a friend that her daughter was given homework on the first day of reception class. I really don't think mine would have coped with that!

I wish Ivydale would become a bit more focused and organised overall and hope that will be the case with time.

[oldnewromantic]

Don't be obsessed by stats. My husband and I are both analyst types by profession, so as you can imagine, we looked at it very numerically. We had a spreadsheet!! But just remember, this is about your child's individual outcomes that they get from the school, whether they be academic or otherwise. If only 60% do well, it doesn't mean your child has a higher chance that they themselves won't. There are many other factors, one of the most important being you.

Having said that, one of the stats that I did look carefully at is on the good schools guide website, and it's the "Do bright children do well here?" stat.

Visit the school, go to the concerts and events, meet the parents (lots of Ivydale mums sing in the Nunhead Community Choir, so you could have a sing song, come to the pub afterwards AND find out about the school).

[chantelle]

thanks oldnewromantic. Oh yes, we have a lovely spreadsheet too! i think i can rattle off KS2s for most of SE London. i think you're right though, I do believe that the biggest determinant is the child's parents - seems the research is pretty clear that children will attain similar education standards. I guess the worry is that teachers are distracted by unruly or underperforming students.

[chantelle]

supergolden, thanks for that info on Turnham (and Stillness) too.

[The Nappy Lady]

My eldest is coming to the end of Yr 2 at Ivydale & I'm very happy with all areas of her learning. She gets just the right amount of homework - not obligatory, but it means we can support her learning & focus on supporting her most in the areas she needs it. I have found I am much more 'informed' of what she is learning since she started in Year 2 than during Reception & Year 1.

If you do go with Ivydale I'd recommend you embrace the opportunity for your child to learn to play a musical instrument as this is one of the schools greatest strengths.

I feel the new head is addressing previous issues raised as part of the Ofsted report very well & I am very glad my daughter is attending this school rather than others in the area to be honest.

As others have said, the area has changed a great deal over the past few years. I believe that in the past (& possibly still at the higher end of the school) English was not the first language for a good proportion of the pupils & clearly this had an impact on KS1 & KS2 results etc. Whilst this is not the only reason it is worth bearing it in mind. In fact I think the previous head achieved some amazing results with a difficult set of circumstances.

There is no doubt that Nunhead as a whole is changing & Ivydale is too. I feel there is a perfect mix of cultures there now, great opportunities & a lovely atmosphere!

[ad2000]

Also - check the catchment area - living in Nunhead does not necessarily mean you get a place at Ivydale... there is, as I understand it, a large waiting list for both nursery and reception. The choice may still not be yours....

[chantelle]

Molly - thanks very much for that. I do like the sound of the music program.

ad2000, i spoke to the school and they said we would get in from the house we are considering. it's only about 220m away. Yes there are some tiny catchments out there (John Stainer went to 184m this year) but i feel pretty confident about that. Interestingly, Turnham didn't turn away any applicants this year - everyone who applied got a place. I imagine Ivydale nursery will be full though for starting this autumn.

[tallgirl]

Hollydale is well thought of by local parents. It had a good Ofsted Report and SATs results. It's not as well known as Ivydale as it's a smaller school and has no nursery. Children normally go to the pre-school on St Mary's Rd from 2.5 until they start reception.

[BB100]

Hi Chantelle, I've Pm you

[oldnewromantic]

From September I will have both children at Hollydale and can second tallgirl that it really shouldn't be overlooked. It's a fabulous little school. I appreciate, Chantelle, you are focussing on Ivydale as it us your closest school, but if others are reading this are closer to Hollydale and want to find out more I (and I'm sure lots of other parents) would be more than happy to chat.

[MelRose]

Hey oldnewromantic - I'd love to hear more about Hollydale, our daughter has been allocated a place there this September and we are happy (second closest, second choice, we feel lucky). We liked the school when looking around last year but it's hard to get the full picture on open days.

I tend to feel there is a bit of a cult around some of the schools near us - Ivydale and Edmund Waller to name but two -where other local schools are just as deserving. The most improved schools around are those where the parents are actively engaged and supportive. We'd like to be part of that.

[toomuchchocolate]

I too would love to hear more about hollydale school. It's our closest primary and I've to start visiting schools soon as my son will start school in 2013...not as far away as it seems!

[Queenie23]

Personally as someone who has had children at Ivydale for many years I feel the school is losing what has made it so special in the past, it was telling how many of the teachers left at the end of the first year of the new head's leadership. My child left a few years ago and I can tell you that despite the rubbish sats I was so pleased she was at a school that didn't really teach just so they could get higher in the league tables - she had a wonderful education there. However, we all want different things for our children and the intake in the lower years is predominantly white and middle class. Some people obviously embrace this fact about Ivydale. But look around the school and see what you feel. Its just not the sort of school now that I used to know and love.

[The Nappy Lady]

That's really interesting Queenie. I must say I thought Ray (the old head) was lovely, but equally Helen is bringing good things to the school & whilst it is changing I think it really HAS to because of the way schools are judged now - sad but true.

I feel the school has retained all the 'good stuff' but is now adding to it but I still consider myself to be a relative newcomer to the school as my eldest is now in year 3.

I'm glad you were happy with your daughters experience at the school, that's what we all wish for. I must say at primary level I think that a school shouldnt be too focused on 'academia' & I love the rounded education my girls are getting there & the wide cultural mix of friends the have.

[newtoedf]

My daughter is in nursery at Ivydale and loves it but I had a real wobble at christmas when it came to doing the primary school applications. The main thing is the latest published results were for 2010 which means too soon really for the new head to have had much impact, the 2011 results haven't been formally published yet (or at least hadn't in January) and were a lot better. Renata Hamvas kindly provided them in response to a very similar thread I started on a different forum:

Maths 81%

English 80%

That was the reassurance that I needed and I'm delighted that my daughter has got a place in reception. I can't comment on what the school was like before but i've found it has a great atmosphere, the focus on music is amazing, my daughter's nursery class is a very diverse, friendly class and knowing that the academic side is not an after-thought is important too