St Anthony's Primary School extension

[Earl Aelfheah]

Fuschia Wrote:

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> St Anthonys is a catholic school. You can't just

> pretend to be a believer to get your child in!!

It depends how far one is willing to go to get their child into a decent London state school. I know several people who are willing to get their child christened and go to mass on a Sunday in order to qualify for a London state school (though not specifically in ED).

The fact that many London churches now take 'registers' at masses in order to report back to schools says a lot.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I believe the segregation of young children along religious (which often also means racial and cultural) lines, to be deeply divisive. I certainly think there is a problem where the state is part of such a system.

[Gimme]

But they won't cycle or walk... their parents will drive them from afar in their 4*4 petrol munching machines....

James Barber Wrote:

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> Partially true skyblue. More likely kids will go

> to RC School St Francis Caprini and Lewisham kids

> wont have places to go.

>

> Expanding this school will mean more kids will be

> able to walk and cycle to school.

[James Barber]

Hi Gimme,

Stand outside St.Anthony's and you see lots and lots of kids being walkedto school.

[skyblue]

James, yes but even if they put caprini as second choice if they live west of Barry road they have no chance of getting in to carini, but will get third chioce heber/gg etc. Surely it is in all our collective interests to see school places expanded. As for parking as you say this is a great chance to train those parents in how to park etc.

[dollydaydream]

The school on the borders of Honor Oak/East Dulwich is St. Francesca Cabrini not Francis Caprini.

[sian]

Unless I am mistaken Dulwich Village C of E infants looks as if it has been through a refurbishment as now have all the local primary schools. I dont recall the same degree of criticism in relation the the Village.

Why should St Anthony's children have to attend school in a building erected on a temporary basis 40 years ago?

Why should children at this school be deprived of a building which is fit for purpose? As I understand it the local parish and diocese will have to make substantial contributions towards the cost.

[Mick Mac]

James Barber Wrote:

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> Hi Gimme,

> Stand outside St.Anthony's and you see lots and

> lots of kids being walkedto school.

from their 4x4's......

[philiphenslowe]

When I was at St Anthony's in the 1980s my classmates came from Barry Road, Lordship Lane, Landells Road, Crystal Palace Road, Crawthew Grove, Melbourne Grove, Goodrich Road, Underhill Road, Friern Road, Cyrena Road, Darrell Road + Ulverscroft Road, as well as Henslowe Road. 2 girls came from Ondine Road & Danby Street in Peckham + one girl lived at the very top of Lordship Lane near the barracks.

A very small percentage of children used to come from the Peckham end of East Dulwich, but the school used to organise a coach from a local company to collect kids from Goose Green (I think) + drop them at the top of Friern Road, by the entrance to the playground.

I knew quite a few people with younger siblings who had to go to Goodrich & Heber because St Anthony's was just too small + couldn't accommodate them. At the time it was a 1.5 form entry school.

I have now moved to Forest Hill and when I have children I'd love them to go to St Anthony's, but my local school is St Francesca Cabrini so I wouldn't have a chance of getting them in despite regularly attending St Thomas More + getting married there.

[Miacis]

A good travel plan is essentail and should include walking buses. Some mums drive to schools because they have smaller children/toddlers who walk agonisingly slowly so resort to going by car. If the school age children all walked together in a 'bus' it would save all a lot of angst/CO2.

Others do drive as they then go on to work. If this all creates parking problems then it could be helped by the school being more active in encouraging people to park further away and walk. That and a few wardens popping up!

[buggie]

Mick Mac Wrote:

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> James Barber Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Hi Gimme,

> > Stand outside St.Anthony's and you see lots and

> > lots of kids being walkedto school.

>

> from their 4x4's......

... to be fair, standing outside St Anthony's you will see the kids being walked to school as it's normally round the corner on Friern Road that the parents park on. Agree with Jaffa about the drop off log jam around the school having walked past it many mornings.

Despite many threads about primary school places, is interesting that there has never been anyone posting wanting a place at St Anthony's and not getting one - would this indicate that catchment is further afield (I know of a family who still commute their children over from Catford).

Am sure there is no doubt that after 40 odd years a temporary structure should be replaced, but agree with the posts concerning the effects of the expansion.

[Alexthecamel]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> I believe the segregation of young children along

> religious (which often also means racial and

> cultural) lines, to be deeply divisive. I

> certainly think there is a problem where the state

> is part of such a system.

rahrahrah- you may have many objections to the Catholic Church, but to say that it divides or separates along racial and cultural lines is ridiculous. In fact any Christian Church in London will be more mixed than your average secular school or any other club that your children may attend.

[Renata Hamvas]

The reason for expanding St Anthony's I believe is that it was a 1.5 form entry school. The school has currently 2 forms in reception from a bulge last year. Half forms are not ideal, as it means than children from two school years are mixed together for lessons. The parish of St Thomas More East Dulwich is a feeder parish to the school, but there were probably more children in the parish than spaces so some went to St Francesca Cabrini, as after church attendance distance also comes onto it. St Francesca Cabrini is different as it is not tied to any parish, so I think the Kids there come from ED, Nunhead, Honor Oak and Crofton Park parishes. I would have thought there would be a bit of increase in traffic as those extra children now getting into St Anthony's would be living on the fringes of the parish, ie further away.

[Earl Aelfheah]

@Alexthecamel - I am not expressing an issue with Catholicism. I am expressing an issue with the state funding exclusive schools which divide children along religious lines.

As for religious segregation also dividing along racial and cultural lines, the degree to which this happens varies from place to place clearly, but is very real in certain areas.

[tallulah71]

dollydaydream Wrote:

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> The school on the borders of Honor Oak/East

> Dulwich is St. Francesca Cabrini not Francis

> Caprini.

or indeed, Francis Carpini......

[Alexthecamel]

rahrahrah

I don't understand your point. Catholic Schools do not segregate on racial and cultural lines.

In any community the Catholic Church (and School if there is one one) will be more diverse than the surrounding community. Compare the population of Dulwich Hamlets or Dog Kennel Hill with the nearest Catholic school and the Catholic one will be more diverse.

As I said you may have valid reasons for objecting to State Funding of religious Schools but to say that Catholic schools segregate on cultural or racial lines is wrong.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's not just about Catholic Schools, it's about all faith schools. But I can tell you from my own experience of going to a Catholic school, that it was far from diverse. It did not reflect the community it was in and this was a result of its admissions policy. Clearly this will vary from area to area, but generally if you segregate according to religion, you are likely to increase the probability of there being an indirect effect on diversity generally.

Even if you take the racial and cultural element out of it, the state is still segregating along faith lines, which in itself is pretty indefensible IMO.

[Sanne Panne]

I can't believe religion still exists, seriously. The hypocrisy that makes people attend church for a year or two before their eldest goes to school is probably worse but unfortunately more understandable.

But all this doesn't necessarily mean that a school that makes an effort to motivate children to pursue education can't extend their premises. As an ex resident of the uphill bit of Barry Road I agree that they should probably build a drive through drop off area in the proposed extension zone and build a floor on top of the existing school building to show the children why God is responsible for the awesome geometry of a snowflake.

Sorry. Bad taste and so on. Just want to say that you don't need to be "for" a school system to allow it to use local funds to extend provided the school doesn't take away non-faith allocations (and/or a disproportionate amount of funds) from the area. If x kids in St Anthony's means x fewer places for non faith kids in the ED area it becomes a different story altogether. (sorry not 100% informed on the school allocation business).

[James Barber]

I visited St.Anthony's today and had an excellent tour led by the acting head Ian Croft.

I've read all the reports, seen photos, seen the proposed plans and thought I understood all the schools building issues but actually visiting the school really opened my eyes.

The school office have umbrellas to cope with leaks from rain ingress.

Another class room has had a flat roof leak and the ceiling collapsed.

The extension and remodelling of the school really needs to take place - so as a ward councillor I've submitted my support to the works to the relevant planning officer.

The flip side was a music theory lunch club with kids studing for grade 1 to 5. Grade 5 is equivalent to a GCSE. Very imrepssive for Primary School - especially as it was taking place in a boiling glass room and the kids were brilliantly behaved and really hungry to learn.

[barrybarry]

After years of lurking, this thread has finally persuaded me to register with EDF!

I feel quite strongly that this extension shouldn't be allowed to go ahead, because of the exclusive nature of the school. We live within view of the school and are Christians, but have no chance of getting in there. Meanwhile, people drive in from all over the place to attend, sometimes just because their grandparents go to the church.

What really shocked me was that my son is not even able to go to the scouts that is held at the school! It is only open to Catholics. As it happens, I am happy for my son to attend a community school. The idea that children should mix exclusively with children of the same religion seems like an unhelpful one. I don't think we should be encouraging it.

If the extension took place with the proviso that the school should start taking a proportion of non-Catholics, that would be a different story. It would also give the school a chance to spread the message that they clearly feel so strongly about. Isn't that the whole point of faith schools, after all?

[dollydaydream]

Barrybarry, why don't you find out your facts first, the children don't go there because their grandparents went to the church, one parent has to be a committed catholic and attend mass regularly, and that's the same everywhere. You say you are a christian do you attend your church regularly i.e every sunday?

Why would you want to send your child to a catholic school if you are so against it and families who are committed catholics would not be able to get their children into the school, then they would be taking up places in your precious community school.

As for not getting your son into scouts because your not catholic nor can any one else because the school does not have a scouts group!! They have a Beaver and Cubs groups and they have waiting lists.

I don't hear you complaining about Dulwich Hamlet school getting money to improve their school, Dulwich Hamlet was a church school as far as I remember and connected to St. Barnabus church, and families were suppose to attend the church. Why didn't you send your child there? or St Johns in Ady's Rd at the bottom of Crystal Palace Rd.

If your happy to send your child to a community school then what's your Problem.

Why don't you just shut up moaning.

[minder]

dollydaydream - it's a bit much to say "shut up moaning" when it's barrybarry's first post!

Surely they're entitled to their side of the story.

[toast]

Barrybarry is making fair points in a balanced way, which is more than can be said for dollydaydream. Any regular on this forum will know primary school places are a real local problem. ALL of the local schools have had bulge classes and there are few options or money left. I'm not opposed to supporting religious communities through faith schools but faith schools are one of the reasons ed has a local shortage of places. An enormous amount of the funding we received for extra local primary places has gone on this one school. It is one of the schools which will do little to create 'local' places, and I think it is worthy of discussion. St Anthony.'s should have to take more local kids as part of this funding as that is what this funding was intended to do.

[barrybarry]

Thanks for the warm welcome, dolly daydream! I was using 'scouts' as an umbrella term, i.e. cub scouts, beaver scouts. I realise there is a waiting list for the pack that meets at St Anthony's, because I asked if my son could join it. I was told he couldn't as he is not a Catholic.

To answer your other questions, yes I do attend church every Sunday but wanted my children to be able to walk to school, hence sending them to the nearest school that would take them (St Anthony's is nearest, but they wouldn't have accepted them).

It's not relevant to my post, but Dulwich Hamlets is not a faith school. Dulwich Village Infants is, but they take 50% of non-church goers, which in my opinion, gives a much more welcoming impression of the church community it represents.

Oh, and my comment about St Anthony's pupils who's grandparents attend was based on the admissions criteria from a few years ago. Perhaps things have changed since then. I certainly hope so.

[sillywoman]

dollydaydream Wrote:

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> Barrybarry, why don't you find out your facts

> first,

Dulwich Hamelt is, and always has been, a community school. Catchment firmly based on distance from the school. No church input at all.

Pot-Kettle eh Dolly?