Cyclist Jumping Red Lights...

[jimlad48]

Just seen an appalling case of red light jumping at Half Moon pub. Roughly 1645 today, I was on foot and watched as a guy with what appeared to be no lights, reflective gear and it appeared no helmet brazenly shot through the red lights by the pub towards the pizza express opposite via the very busy main road.

The reason I was so shocked was because I watched him in the twilight gloom actively encourage his two little children who didnt appear to have been more than a few years old (at a push I'd say 5-6yrs old) and did not not have reflective gear or lights either, to jump the red lights / green man and shoot across the road.

If you are a grown adult and wish to cycle through red lights on a busy main road where traffic is unpredictable, then thats your call. To willfully encourage your little children to do it, simply so you can scoot across the road into a restaurant and save a few seconds defies belief. Either wait for the traffic to turn in your favour, or dismount and use the plentiful pedestrian crossings there. It was a bloody miracle his kids weren't killed tonight.

I did look around for a policeman to report the behaviour too in the hope that they'd be able to get the message through, but sadly no one was about.

Who on earth risks their kids lives to save 30 seconds on ordering a pizza for gods sake?

[Blah Blah]

How can a five year old 'shoot' anywhere? They just do not cycle that fast.

[DulwichFox]

Couple of days back a guy on a bicycle flew down North Cross road at great speed and turned right

into Lordship Lane across both lanes. Did not look.. slow down.. just turned leaning at 45%.

Some people I feel are not long for this World. If hit by a car, Bus or lorry, the driver would have

that on his conscience and would probably get the blame.

DulwichFox

[Loz]

About six months ago I saw at peak hour a guy cycle off the side street, straight across Earls Court Road (the cars braking and narrowly missing him), straight over the pavement (narrowly missing - and rather startling - the pedestrians) and cycle at speed directly into the tube station.

It was a tour de force of stupidity.

[jimlad48]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> How can a five year old 'shoot' anywhere? They

> just do not cycle that fast.

Even more reason not to cycle through red lights on a junction into the flow of traffic then? Please tell me you are not seriously trying to justify this?

I accept before the inevitable 'all road users are idiots' begins that drivers, cyclists and pedestrians can do foolish and risky things. BUT, I am appalled that a father would encourage his very young children to do something so breathtakingly stupid simply to avoid waiting maybe 20 or 30 more seconds - what was he thinking?

[Robert Poste's Child]

To redress the balance slightly, between DV and the Half Moon this afternoon no less than four vehicles passed me on my bike with only a foot to spare while pulling left so I had to brake hard to avoid a collision

However, my favourite HH road madness recently was a 30-something skateboarding in morning rush-hour traffic, earphones in, dark clothes, no reflective clothing/helmet/lights, who wove the entire length of Stradella Rd without once looking behind him.

[Blah Blah]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Blah Blah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > How can a five year old 'shoot' anywhere? They

> > just do not cycle that fast.

>

> Even more reason not to cycle through red lights

> on a junction into the flow of traffic then?

> Please tell me you are not seriously trying to

> justify this?

To be fair, neither you or I were there. I am questioning the detail of what is an anecdotal account. Nowhere have I written anything that suggests condoning anything, I just find a paradox in a suggestion that a five year old 'shot' accross a junction. What is more likely to have happened is that the father saw a clear junction and ignored the lights. Whilst I do not condone that, that is very different to 'shooting' accross a junction with oncoming traffic in sight and making two five year olds do the same. One is relatively risk free, the other is not. There is an embellishment to this account, that is suggested by that contradiction, in my opinion.

[jimlad48]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> jimlad48 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Blah Blah Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > How can a five year old 'shoot' anywhere?

> They

> > > just do not cycle that fast.

> >

> > Even more reason not to cycle through red

> lights

> > on a junction into the flow of traffic then?

> > Please tell me you are not seriously trying to

> > justify this?

>

>

> To be fair, neither you or I were there. I am

> questioning the detail of what is an anecdotal

> account. Nowhere have I written anything that

> suggests condoning anything, I just find a paradox

> in a suggestion that a five year old 'shot'

> accross a junction. What is more likely to have

> happened is that the father saw a clear junction

> and ignored the lights. Whilst I do not condone

> that, that is very different to 'shooting' accross

> a junction with oncoming traffic in sight and

> making two five year olds do the same. One is

> relatively risk free, the other is not. There is

> an embellishment to this account, that is

> suggested by that contradiction, in my opinion.

Actually I was there, standing about 5m away from the situation and watched the whole thing. The language 'shot across' was entirely accurate. I can also confirm that due to the position of the cars on the road and the visibility at that point, the father did not have clear view of the road and the different junctions there.

Unlike you, I witnessed the event and the phrase 'shot' is totally correct. Your desperate attempt through semantics to comment on an event you didnt witness feels like you are trying to lessen the impact of an extremely poor decision by an idiot.

[Lynne]

Typical ED Form approach to a serious matter to pick on semantics (ie. aren't I clever, I spotted this) rather than the subject.

[Champ]

Sounds like totally irresponsible parenting and jimlad48 is right to show concern. Why other users have decided for themselves that he has exaggerated parts of his account of the incident is beyond me!

[malumbu]

Why are you posting here? Yes sadly some cyclists jump red lights. This is a societal thing unless we want to live in a police state. Write to your MP, the Met Police, your Borough, the Times, rather than on this site. Then when you've got a response you can discuss that.

Today I saw a motorist forward of an advanced stop line, a pedestrian cross the road whilst looking at their smart phone, and a car across the pedestrian crossings whilst the lights were red. Just a normal day, nothing to see here people, move on.

[jimlad48]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are you posting here? Yes sadly some cyclists

> jump red lights. This is a societal thing unless

> we want to live in a police state. Write to your

> MP, the Met Police, your Borough, the Times,

> rather than on this site. Then when you've got a

> response you can discuss that.

>

> Today I saw a motorist forward of an advanced stop

> line, a pedestrian cross the road whilst looking

> at their smart phone, and a car across the

> pedestrian crossings whilst the lights were red.

> Just a normal day, nothing to see here people,

> move on.

Why here?

In the vain hope that the utter idiot who risked his childrens lives will read it and think about the stupidity of his actions.

More to the point, if this offends you so much, why did you read it except to make some sarcastic patronising comment?

[JoeLeg]

malumbu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Why are you posting here? Yes sadly some cyclists

> jump red lights. This is a societal thing unless

> we want to live in a police state. Write to your

> MP, the Met Police, your Borough, the Times,

> rather than on this site. Then when you've got a

> response you can discuss that.

>

I disagree - I don't own a car and hold no brief for the motor industry, indeed I've long believed the 'law of the sea' (big gives way to small) should apply on roads, but I fume at cyclists who think it's ok to jump red lights.I regularly see examples of this at the cross roads of East Dulwich Road, and even nearly got hit by one while crossing with my daughter.

A car driven carelessly is of course a far more dangerous thing, and the vast majority of cyclists are careful and considerate, but I despair of those who think that just because they're on a bike they aren't likely to hurt anyone.

> Today I saw a motorist forward of an advanced stop

> line, a pedestrian cross the road whilst looking

> at their smart phone, and a car across the

> pedestrian crossings whilst the lights were red.

> Just a normal day, nothing to see here people,

> move on.

None of those things are good, and I would point out that none of them involve someone jumping a red light. Red lights are one of those inviolable rules of the road, they are not a subject for debate or personal, subjective interpretation.

[moondancer]

JimLad, I hope the Mother of these children reads your report

[Loz]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> I disagree - I don't own a car and hold no brief for the motor industry, indeed I've long believed

> the 'law of the sea' (big gives way to small) should apply on roads

At sea, it's generally seen that 'might has right'. In reality, power gives way to sail and small gives way to large and there are rules as to which applies when.

Obvious, really, as smaller and/or powered vessels are more manoeuvrable - if a small outboard is approaching a cruise liner, which do you think can change course or stop quickest?

[Abe_froeman]

Every day at the goose green playground traffic lights on Easy Dulwich Road I see similarly selfish cyclists steam through the red lights past the children and parents crossing in all directions to the local schools and nurseries.

Regular offenders include one person with a small child on the back of their bike in one of those plastic bucket seats.

[jimlad48]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I disagree - I don't own a car and hold no brief

> for the motor industry, indeed I've long believed

> > the 'law of the sea' (big gives way to small)

> should apply on roads

>

> At sea, it's generally seen that 'might has

> right'. In reality, power gives way to sail and

> small gives way to large and there are rules as to

> which applies when.

>

> Obvious, really, as smaller and/or powered vessels

> are more manoeuvrable - if a small outboard is

> approaching a cruise liner, which do you think can

> change course or stop quickest?

Reading your post gave me flashbacks to doing Rules of The Road exams in the RN. Shudder...

[JoeLeg]

Loz Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > I disagree - I don't own a car and hold no brief

> for the motor industry, indeed I've long believed

> > the 'law of the sea' (big gives way to small)

> should apply on roads

>

> At sea, it's generally seen that 'might has

> right'. In reality, power gives way to sail and

> small gives way to large and there are rules as to

> which applies when.

>

> Obvious, really, as smaller and/or powered vessels

> are more manoeuvrable - if a small outboard is

> approaching a cruise liner, which do you think can

> change course or stop quickest?

AH, I stand corrected. And what you say makes sense of course.

Still, my essential point is that on the roads makes sense to me that larger (and likely more powerful/more dangerous) vehicles should always give way to smaller. There may well be some gaping holes in this theory, but it's one I've always been in favour of.

[bodsier]

I have seen similar incidences to this. Often blokes with their kids, and I too am often shocked at what they do often way ahead of their kids, and crossing roads or jumping lights. Fair also to say that if though I disagree with his actions,there is if I remember correctly a pause at these lights where the lights remain red for everyone,no suspect he made use of that time, so perhaps it was not as risky as it looked....I'm not saying what he did was right, particularly as it gives the kids a bad message. I am not undermining what you witnessed, it was still a risk and a dangerous one, particularly if his young ones got caught short or fell off, or in fact panicked . However, I would say that for every idiotic manoeuvre made by a cyclist, motorists commit 10 more. I believe that the recent changes to the driving tests should have gone further and introduced cycling questions for motorists. The amount of cars that overtake ne on my bike with no more that 2 feet is astounding. How many of you know that it should be a cars width or at least a metre? From my experience, not many. I was shouted at for not weaving between parked cars so that a van could overtake me, when there wasn't enough room. Do you know how dangerous that is when you come out again? Fine if it's a long stretch, but not when it's not. Those who have never cycled often have no idea about the importance of where you place yourself for safety reasons, due to car doors opening, ditches, pedestrians, they just consider you a road hog.

[jimlad48]

Having literally just been repeatedly called a 'f*cking four eyed c*nt' by a cyclist for asking politely why they were going through a red light right towards me,as i was crossing my goodwill to them is reduced right now. No excuse for that kind of behaviour.

[robbin]

Ah, was this unrelated to your original post?

[jimlad48]

No - the kids incident was yesterday. The cyclist was this afternoon.

[dirac]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Having literally just been repeatedly called a

> '@#$%& four eyed c*nt' by a cyclist for asking

> politely why they were going through a red light

> right towards me,as i was crossing my goodwill to

> them is reduced right now. No excuse for that kind

> of behaviour.

I get the same when I ask motor vehicle drivers why they jump lights as well (which I see literally every single day). I once had a coffee (thankfully only warm not hot) thrown in my face by a black cab driver when pointing out that he jumped a red light.

[DuncanW]

jimlad48 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Having literally just been repeatedly called a

> '@#$%& four eyed c*nt' by a cyclist for asking

> politely why they were going through a red light

> right towards me,as i was crossing my goodwill to

> them is reduced right now. No excuse for that kind

> of behaviour.

When you say 'them' in that sort of context, it creates an impression that you see cyclists as one big indistinguishable group, all sharing the same negative characteristics that you experienced earlier today.

It's not a great road to go down...

[jimlad48]

While I agree, having within the last hour had a cyclist repeatedly threaten me and my safety, scream foul abuse in public at the top of his voice and put my safety at risk, simply because he was politely challenged, it is hard tk be sympathetic to cycliets as a group.

I have lost count of the times that cyclists who jump red lights immediately become abusive and dangerously aggressive when politely challenged.

Perhaps a better description would be to say that I have no sympathy for the specific group of cyclists who willingly and knowingly jump red lights.