Attempted mugging last night (11th May) - Melbourne Grove

[DJKillaQueen]

You've provided no evidence whatsoever to prove your claim that black men are 'often beaten up whilst in custody'......it's not me making unsubstantiated claims but you. I have given you reasons why I think your claim is wrong and you have offred no counter argument to that.

The only isgnorance is yours which it why you posted a list of deaths in custody full of death by underlying medical and mental health conditions and fatal accidents whilst trying to escape from arrest.

You clearly have no interest in debate beyond insulting the intelligence of anyone that disagrees with you.

[mockney piers]

Any chance of toning down the shouting there please bobbly?

[bobbly]

..

[bobbly]

...

[david_carnell]

Bobbly - stop with CAPS. It's bad form and irritating. And your message gets ignored more not less.

I don't really want to get drawn into this as it has been done to death in the days of SteveT and his constant cry of "please describe the (black) people who mug us" but the idea that DJKQ puts across that those who have nothing to hide have nothing to fear from the police is simply authoritarian nonsense.

I'm sure you will be the first to volunteer for an ID card, to be microchipped and your home searched regularly for illegal materials.

There are too few deaths in custody to allow for meaningful discussions as to whether black men are more at risk. Given that they are arrested in greater numbers in central London I would imagine any stats to be bias anyway.

James - Melbourne Grove is particularly badly lit at night but the side streets around ED station seem to have been targetted by muggers for a while now. There was a spate nr Oglander/Odine a few months ago. Perhaps patrols after dark from SNTs could be in order. Something you can advise on?

[DJKillaQueen]

Yes I would be more than happy to have an ID card DC.

Where is the eveidence you have provided Bobby? The link you gave provides NO evidence of Police 'often beating up Black offenders'. Even the deaths it lists, the majority are from underlying natural causes or underlying mental health issues or the result of fleeing from arrest. Perhaps you shoud read your own link and see for yourself. And the only person who has made any issue of race is you. The rest of us quite rightfully so have our sympathies with the OP and victim and not the scumbag trying to commit the crime.

[peterstorm1985]

Bobbly, did you mean to attach something but forgot? I haven't seen evidence that supports the 'point' that you keep referring to, as stated in your posts. The attachment you provided lists a number of very sad cases but a high proportion had no inquest verdict (so of no value as evidence) and others made clear indications of mental health issues, or matters that suggest that the outcome was beyond (or unrelated to) the control of police officers. I didn't see any that could support the point that I think you are trying to make. Perhaps you could reiterate exactly what point you are trying to make and which case, if any, you refer to as supporting the point.

A also think that perhaps you should read some of DJKQ's posts on other threads. Whilst I don't always agree with her, there is no doubt that she is very well informed, and to say that she defends society without enquiry could not be further from the truth.

Also, what's with the upper case letters?

[bobbly]

sympathies expressed.

[ziggy]

I hope you are recovered xone, I use this route daily.

A general suggestion: I've seen many posts on this forum over the years relating to criminal incidents and concerns, the description of which often includes the poster's description of a suspect. Occasionally, the way in which skin colour is reported causes offence to some readers. Could I suggest a Forum policy of, where posible, using police identification codes? For those unfamiliar, these codes relate to the apparent ethnicity of someone about whom a report is made, rather than a statement of colour as follows:

IC1 ? White European

IC2 ? Dark European

IC3 ? Afro-Caribbean

IC4 ? Asian (in the British sense - ie Indian, Bangladeshi or Pakistani)

IC5 ? Oriental

IC6 ? Arab/North African

IC0 ? Unknown ethnicity

So for example IC2 Dark European might attach to someone not from Europe but with a dark mediterranean appearance none the less.

Just a suggestion for anyone who may feel this approach might mitigate sensitivities.

[xone]

Well I certainly didn't want to offend anybody with my description. It's a true and accurate account of that particular individual and I don't see that it has to single out groups of individuals from any background or race etc. I would love to be able to give a more detailed description, but I'm not going to make up things I didn't see.

My main point of posting was just to highlight people to be alert and on the lookout in that area as I understand that location to have had a run of similar incidents recently.

I think some regular patrols by maybe community officers, or even a few police cars driving back to the station this way at night, as well as improved lighting would be very useful in the darker hours. A little extra security in numbers maybe.

I wonder if it's possibly targeted as one of the main commuting routes from the station as many people are likely to be carrying laptops and expensive equipment coming back from work late etc. Then again it might purely be complete opportunists.

[Fabricio the Guido]

when you touch on a red button issue, even unintentionally, you can expect some people to pop up and others who try to challenge the ignorant hordes who swamp these threads.

*sorry you were mugged*

[DaveR]

How can it possibly be a red button issue to give a factually accurate description of a crime and a perpetrator?

There appear to be two complaints here - one that the description does not have enough detail to make it worth giving, the other that it is better not to publicise the description at all because it might (unintentionally) cause racial tension. They both seem to me to be b*llocks.

On the substantive point, I agree that looking at better street lighting and possibly increased police patrolling would be good, but on the latter point, the police will have a lot more data than us to inform their priorities, so can't expect too much.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

Don't know if something's been said or if it's just coincidence, but I've just seen a PCOS bod coming from Ondine Rd into Adys Rd. Somewhat reassuring.

[ziggy]

Just trying to help - not in the slightest bothered either way how anyone chooses, with reason, to describe someone. I do recognise that the past few years has seen a significant increase in Forum members, NOT this thread, who, in my perception inflame others' threads unnecessarily. Hence the reason I largely stopped using it. So to be clear, it's only a suggestion which people may use/ignore as desired :-)

[northlondoner]

Don't think anyone is offended when ethnicity of a suspect is mentioned as part of an honest useful description. People get p@&?d off when it's just added as a means of emphasising the horror of the situation or is so broad as to have little identifying value - eg when it could apply to anyone from your son to your uncle. Hope you're ok xone and that they catch the guy.

[pk]

northlondoner Wrote:

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> Don't think anyone is offended when ethnicity of a

> suspect is mentioned as part of an honest useful

> description.

probably agreed, although i am not sure when a description is 'useful'

these posts don't seem to be witness appeals so i don't think the use is to help get a conviction, may be they're intended to warn others that these things happen (if they don't already know) so they might work as a general 'beware' but a description isn't really needed for that purpose. so i am not sure what 'use' is intended to be made of a description - particularly a high level one that does little more than identify the alleged perp's race

[bobbly]

well put pk. I agree with you entirely. Lets hope this puts things to rest.

[Sue]

Salsaboy Wrote:

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> In real life, 'white' people are a sort of pink

> colour and 'black' people are various shades of

> brown. When have you ever seen a truely white or

> black person? My betting is never!

>

> Why do some of the posters on the forum feel

> reports like this have to be turned into a colour

> thing. Far more serious is the fact that someone

> nearly got attacked. We should all be together on

> this. We all bleed the same, regardless of our

> ethnic heritage.

xxxxxxx

Well said

[likansuk269]

i was out with my dog that night by lytcott grove where 2 police officers rode past me on mountain bikes and gave me the once over,then a bit further along the road i was given the evil eye by another 2 officers on foot...i wondered what was going on cos as a resident of melbourne grove its very rare to c 4 officers within the space of 2 minutes.....from the description given of the mugger its pretty obvious that i wasnt the person they were looking for as im white and 6 ft 4..but still they were lookin at me as if i was the person they were looking for....further down the road they had a yourh by the side of the road and were chatting happiliy,and let the youth go on his way..ALL I CAN SUGGEST IS GET A STAF LIKE I HAVE..IF ANYONE TRIES IT ON THEN HE BETTER BE BLOODY BRAVE....

[Jeremy]

bobbly Wrote:

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> Lets hope this puts things to rest.

You must be joking. This one pops up every few weeks, thanks to a minority of over-sensitive individuals.

[TreacleRabbit]

I think the original post was v useful - I live on the corner of the street and it makes me more vigilant. Sorry to hear about it, and good work on the usain bt impression. When I got followed home the police advised me to kick him (but I chose to run instead!) x

[Manda]

Thanks for the info Xone. I won't be taking that short-cut after dark anytime soon. Glad you weren't hurt.

With recent muggings on Nigel Rd, in Peckham Rye Park and now this, I for one intend to be more careful about where and when I walk.

I've been mugged and it's awful so I really do appreciate all the info.