Ageism

[Earl Aelfheah]

Sue Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

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> -----

> > It isn't 'illegal' to ask someone's age, but it

> is

> > irrelevant and enough to establish a prima

> facie

> > case in any age discrimination claim.

>

>

> That's weird, because I had to train a whole load

> of people when the legislation was brought in,

> both in my own company and their clients'

> companies.

>

> http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841

If you ask someone their age as part of the application process and there is no good reason to do so (i.e. it has no relevance to the role being performed), then you are opening yourself up to an age discrimination claim. The fact that you have asked such a question is likely to establish a prima facie discrimination case, which means that the burden of proof shifts to the employer, to prove that there was some other, legitimate reason for turning down the applicant. This is not the same as asking someone's age being 'illegal'.

[Earl Aelfheah]

... just unreasonable and extremely inadvisable.

[Gaynor Hill]

Thank you for all your comments l think I was just annoyed with the fact that after saying I was 53 I never got the chance to send CV and did not even get a email saying sorry for your loss after having my own business for 25years I personally think this is just plain bad manners

I have worked all my life no time off ever just felt like working more locally instead of the commute used to long hours up town and very late nights nothing is too much for me

At the end of the day it's the employer's preogative

Many thanks

Gaynor

[Seabag]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> My sister had no trouble getting office jobs in

> small businesses after she was 50- one of the

> interviewers actually told her that one of the

> reasons she got the job was because she was

> unlikely to go off and breed!

Breed ?

Is this another one of your made up situations UG

[malumbu]

My pay has stagnated and I doubt whether at my age I could compete in the job market. My work life balance is that I don't want to work at the speed and long hours that some of my younger colleagues do.

On a more positive note our recruitment and promotion policy totally anonymises candidates - age, gender, ethnicity, sexual and qualifications. Bit weird sifting applications by a number identifier (much nicer when you can give someone a name) and occasionally candidates turn up who are clearly with no relevant qualifications or experience.

[uncleglen]

Seabag Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > My sister had no trouble getting office jobs in

> > small businesses after she was 50- one of the

> > interviewers actually told her that one of the

> > reasons she got the job was because she was

> > unlikely to go off and breed!

>

>

> Breed ?

>

> Is this another one of your made up situations UG

I've said this before, and I'll say it again- NONE of the situations I have ever posted are made up...it is not my fault that you have little life experience in your ED bubble.

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> Uncleglen wrote

>

> I've said this before, and I'll say it again- NONE

> of the situations I have ever posted are made

> up...

And neither are your bigoted, hateful responses.

it is not my fault that you have little life

> experience in your ED bubble.

Well firstly I think we all do, it's just that you can't stand people disagreeing with your narrow-minded view of society, and secondly that comment just goes to show why a judgemental fool you are.

I've said it before and I'll say it again - you're a teacher? Wow, I hope my kids are never taught by such an individual as yourself.

[uncleglen]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Seabag Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > Uncleglen wrote

> >

> > I've said this before, and I'll say it again-

> NONE

> > of the situations I have ever posted are made

> > up...

>

> And neither are your bigoted, hateful responses.

>

> it is not my fault that you have little life

> > experience in your ED bubble.

>

> Well firstly I think we all do, it's just that you

> can't stand people disagreeing with your

> narrow-minded view of society, and secondly that

> comment just goes to show why a judgemental fool

> you are.

>

> I've said it before and I'll say it again - you're

> a teacher? Wow, I hope my kids are never taught by

> such an individual as yourself.

You can rest assured that your kids are being brainwashed in school by people who refer to gay people as 'shirt-lifters'.

Don't think because people are teachers that they do not have extremist left-wing views and many admit to going into teaching to disseminate these views....you know the type-'I want to influence young minds'.....

Please feel free to pm me, or post publicly- ANY examples of bigoted and hateful responses as you call them from me- you are just jumping on the rendelharris bandwagon who puts his OWN slant on whatever I've said.

[rendelharris]

Well as you've seen fit to use my name UG, lots of people on here call you out as a bigot, because you are one.

I'll give you one example from this year: when you called Yvette Williams MBE, a policy adviser to the Crown Prosecution Service and spokesperson for Justice4Grenfell, a group which has widespread community backing including from many of the survivors, a "stirrer" for asking for a better response for the families made homeless. As I recall you told us that "true" survivors were patiently waiting in line and it was only the far left (for you, anyone to the right of Ghengis Khan, it seems) who were trying to exploit the tragedy.

If you require further examples of your hateful bigotry, your comment history is available.

(ETA and from Joe Leg's sensible and lucid posts I'd say he's quite capable of making his mind up about you for himself; it'd be lovely for you (and flattering to me) to say that all the many people on here who've called you out for your hateful views are jumping on my bandwagon, but the truth is they're all just seeing you for what you are, no assistance from me needed - your views aren't exactly subtle and hard to interpret, you know)

[Loz]

At the risk of making UG look good (and frankly, it would take more than this) people do jump on his posts and read more into them than he writes. Now, UG does, quite rightly, get a good e-kicking for some stuff he writes, but I thought JoeLeg did, surprisingly, kick off rather abruptly in the post further up the page.

Also, RH's example of 'bigotry' (calling someone a stirrer) is pretty poor as well. If that's all that classes as bigotry these days, nevermind 'hateful bigotry', we've lost the real meaning of the word.

[JoeLeg]

I object to the assumption that because I grew up in East Dulwich (back when it wasn't the same kind of place it is now) I have no life experience. So yes, I jumped at that.

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> JoeLeg Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > uncleglen wrote

>

> Please feel free to pm me, or post publicly- ANY

> examples of bigoted and hateful responses as you

> call them from me- you are just jumping on the

> rendelharris bandwagon who puts his OWN slant on

> whatever I've said.

I have repeatedly asked you for proof of your comments about immigrants so on. You post bigoted nonsense but whenever you're pressed to back it up with anything you disappear from the thread. Your assertions would fail the rigour of anything outside the Daily Mail comments sections.

I like debate, I like hearing the opposing view; as I always say, I might learn something. But from you we just get opinion passed off a truth. Your post history speaks for itself.

[Loz]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> I object to the assumption that because I grew up in East Dulwich (back when it wasn't the same kind

> of place it is now) I have no life experience. So yes, I jumped at that.

Understandable, Joeleg. But you are normally one of the more measured and thoughtful posters here, so your sudden jump to calling UG a bigot just seemed a bit OTT in the situation.

[JoeLeg]

He grinds my gears, probably intentionally. For all I know he's a 16 year old boy enjoying winding up the local liberals. But I've worked with many immigrants throughout my life and I believe fervently on the benefits they bring, and have had enough of people pretending we don't need them. They aren't the whipping boy for all our ills, we do most of it or ourselves.

The 'ED bubble' comment really riled me, the idea that because I come from SE22 I'm somehow an ignorant fool who has no understanding of the wider world? No, not letting that pass, and especially not from someone who seems to run on hatred.

[rendelharris]

Loz Wrote:

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> Also, RH's example of 'bigotry' (calling someone a

> stirrer) is pretty poor as well. If that's all

> that classes as bigotry these days, nevermind

> 'hateful bigotry', we've lost the real meaning of

> the word.

Calling someone working for free to try to help the Grenfell victims a stirrer because she asked for a better response is pretty bloody hateful in my opinion. If you want more examples of uncleglen's unsubstantiated bile try the one above that many teachers are extreme left wingers (who also, oddly, apparently refer to gay people as shirtlifters) who admit (it's amazing what people admit to uncleglen, he must be a brilliant listener) that they are in the profession to indoctrinate young people.

A few more examples just for the record:

After the London Bridge attacks, "Apparently one of them lived in Barking and had been an upstanding and useful member of his community for three years according to one of his neighbours..." Clear implication that you can't trust any of "them."

"I remember being in North Cross Road a couple of Xmases ago and the little stage was up, the then Muslim mayor was there and there were 2 children coming out of the mosque with adult men who were talking and the children were looking up the road at the fun going on. Then the men took them away in the opposite direction."

"there was a student I taught in the gcse year. She was barely literate and was hopeless at maths. She asked for her parents' evening reports to be sent home as her parents couldn't attend...the reason was that they were buying a new Merc...I thought of only they had spent some money on a tutor for her (she was not statemented or anything)- still she probably has 10 kids and all the designer gear by now!" (A fine example of the made up crap he spouts)

"Ever since Blair the Labour party has tried to grab ethnic votes

[www.migrationwatchuk.org]

As a perennial cynic I believe the Labour party has been trying to ingratiate itself with the muslim community.' (Migrationwatch being a notoriously anti-immigration thinktank famous for skewing the figures).

Plenty more examples in his history, slice him whichever way you want, he's a hateful rightwing bigot.

[Loz]

They are hardly smoking gun examples, either.

Look, I know as much as anyone here that UG posts more than his share of utter bollox and usually not from a healthy viewpoint. And when UG does go off on one, as he does, it's right to call him out on it. Hell, I've done it myself. But there is more than a bit of playing the man and not the ball of late when it comes to his posts.

[Alan Medic]

I can't compete. I went off UG when he declared he had a bath/shower once (or maybe twice) a year. He could be the Pope and I'd have gone off him. (just using the Pope as an example of someone who supposedly has good credentials)

[JoeLeg]

Loz, those are some pretty bad comments that RH has used as examples.

Also, I don't buy this 'play the ball, not the man' argument, not always. Sometimes why people say is so consistently, coherently of a type that one begins to feel that one is actually dealing with an unpleasant, hateful individual. And if that's so then why, when we would plainly say it in real life does online etiquette demand that more gentle treatment must be given?

I do not agree (and I respect those that disagree with me on this) that everyone is always, no matter what, entitled to be treated equally online. I never say anything I wouldn't say to someone's face, why should I behave differently? I think it gives a legitimacy to divisive and dismissive language which is then allowed to stand with no need for it to be backed up or proven.

And yes, I know this is just da interwebz, but discourse which seeks to challenge and enlighten, even if uncomfortable, is welcome. That which simply wishes to vent its spleen over those it perceives to have done it wrong needs, at the very least, to demonstrate some level of proof. Otherwise all we have is a general level of hatred of immigrants, academi and the middle class, and I feel comfortable looking back at recent history and seeing where that had led nations on the past.

[hammerman]

Going back to the original title about ageism.

Don't worry you are not old by any means at 53!

Also going back to Uncleglen's post; I read it that he was saying his sister was told by an interviewee that she would get the job because she wouldn't go off and breed so he didn't actually say these words?

[Gaynor Hill]

Thanks for getting back to the subject, if I could have presented myself I would have thought nothing of it I lucky my hubby can take care of me no extras but at the end of the day as long as you have a roof over your head food in belly and lekky everything else is a bonus

Gaynor

[Loz]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> Loz, those are some pretty bad comments that RH

> has used as examples.

Really? One of them read so innocuously that RH had to add an 'explanatory' note.

And as for Grenfell, well it's hardly news that there are some political groups trying to leverage the Grenfell tragedy for political reasons and to make the inquiry terms include issues much wider than just the issue of the building, the fire and what led up to it. Now, I don't know if the person mentioned is one of those doing this. I don't know her at all. Maybe either RH or UG can say.

[Loz]

Sorry Gaynor, I was writing that as you posted and again taken things off at a tangent. Sorry.

[JoeLeg]

Fair enough Loz, you're a more forgiving individual than me, and that's a good thing.

Indeed Gaynor, apologies, this has gone waaaay off-topic.

[Gaynor Hill]

Hey no worries think maybe I was being a bit sensitive with the whole employer thing at the end of the day it's the employer progative

Thanks though

Gaynor

[Loz]

Gaynor Hill Wrote:

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> Hey no worries think maybe I was being a bit sensitive with the whole employer thing at the end

> of the day it's the employer progative

> Thanks though

> Gaynor

No, it's really not. They should not be asking your age.