Ageism

[Gaynor Hill]

I applied for a position in a retail family business in lordship lane this week, I could not upload my CV on the site they advertised did cover letter stating I have worked in Liberty and John Lewis W1 have excellent customer service and extensive knowledge of products they sell and could I email CV direct.

Had email back asking my age replied 53

Sadly due to a sudden death in family the next day I email saying what has happened and would not be around for the next 3/4 weeks but could I still send CV even if it's for future positions.

Had know reply back do you think it's because of my age or am I being sensitive?

Did not even get a reply saying sorry for your loss

What they did not know I have been a customer since the late 90's since they opened purchasing monthly products,

Never in my life experience this before.

Gaynor

[Loz]

It was illegal for them to ask for your age (or date of birth) in the first place, unless it was for legal reasons.

[Robert Poste's Child]

They're definitely not supposed to ask your age, though realistically if they have a prejudice about that they'll give you another reason if you ask. On the other hand they might just be disorganised. Would it be worth dropping in and giving them a printed copy of your CV?

[JohnL]

I'm 51 and worry about ageism too as no job lasts until retirement now (I'm in IT and it used to be said you're over the hill at 50 - but there are shortages now and older people are valued).

Mind you many companies just don't reply but it's strange they asked your age straight out - that would be a bit of a red flag to me (some bosses don't like people older than them to be working for them).

[Gaynor Hill]

They emailed me within 2 hours to ask age and have had a couple of days to reply but thanks for the advice

Gaynor.

[Mark]

Pop in and speak to them. We used to run a shop and people who came in to ask for jobs were more likely to get them as they generally passed a few simple "tests" (ability to speak, approach people politely, ability to get off their ass, show initiative etc etc)

[Gaynor Hill]

I understand what you are saying Mark I have had my own business to in hairdressing but they wanted CV only I have worked all my life and just wanted a local job as fed up with commuting

Gaynor

[Jules-and-Boo]

They shouldn't have asked your age. It would seem that it could be a reason they haven't replied. I think it could equally be because you are not available immediately.

I wouldn't say it's one over the other at all.

I would be inclined to pop in and see them, with a view to getting constructive feedback.

As Mark says - it demonstrates skills you would need any way and there's nothing wrong with stepping out of your comfort zone.

[edcam]

They most definitely should not be asking your age. It's illegal.

[KidKruger]

Ageism is pathetic and driven in a big part IMO by the media BS.

Entire population is ageing and soon (if not already) will be the majority of citizens.

Then what ?!

[Gaynor Hill]

Fully understand what you are saying jools and boo but firstly when prospective employer wishes CV only I respect this also I emailed could I send CV for future employment if they had fulfilled the position.

Working in liberty and John Lewis as account manager you have to have excellent customer service and grooming you also get mystery shopper which I think is great

Gaynor

[Nigello]

Go in, ask to speak to the manager in private, let them explain. If you are not satisfied, report them - and tell them that you are and why you are doing so. Ageism is insidious and should not be tolerated.

[Gaynor Hill]

Hi Nigello

To be honest not worth my time and I really would not report them I have not even named shop as I feel this would be unjust to them business is hard enough they have lost a loyal monthly customer and would I not want to work for someone who can not be bothered to email back after stating my age, when I had my business for 25 years I always rang prospective employers even if they did not get the position.just rude not to.

I was just in shock as this has never happened to me before and I stared work at 14 years old as a Saturday girl and have worked since decided to take a month out before putting CV out so this was only first one will start again in a month with all things going on

Thanks

Gaynor

[Sue]

Yes it is illegal to ask your age.

I stopped putting anything which could indicate my age on my CV (although of course a long work record is significant if somebody wants to make guesses).

Many moons ago I used to train managers of various organisations in non discriminatory recruitment methods, and you would expect large companies to adhere to those (if for no other reason than potential bad publicity), however I suppose you can't expect a small shop to know (or possibly care) that they are breaking the law.

Though there may be exemptions for small businesses, I can't remember now.

Even apart from legal aspects, they should be looking at relevant skills and experience and matching those to the person spec. Many young people would be crap at the job. Many older people would be excellent.

The same applies to other non job related characteristics such as race and gender (except for a very few specific jobs where there may be reasons for wanting people from a particular group, which is legal).

What particularly used to bug me was companies specifiying that they wanted graduates (not sour grapes, I am one myself). In the vast majority of cases, having a degree per se bore no possible relevance to the job. Rather, the recruiter made particular assumptions about what qualities all graduates must have (eg quick to learn, maybe) without considering that many people without degrees might also have those qualities.

Anyway, I could go on. Oh, I did.

Gaynor I would like to know which this shop is.

I suppose one consolation might be, would you want to work somewhere where you felt that they thought you were too old for them? I wouldn't.

ETA: Very sorry for your loss, btw.

[Gaynor Hill]

Hi Sue

Thank you for the lovely message, I feel it would be unjust to name and shame then business is hard enough and it was my problem feel that this subject should be out there saw today in paper a very qualified gentleman age 43 applied for 400 jobs with no success he ended up putting a plackared attached to him advertising himself he's now happy in a company.

Terrible

Gaynor

[teddyboy23]

Have you thought it might be the other way round and your to young

[JohnL]

Oh no, 43 is young.

[DulwichFox]

Age is a state of mind.

Youth and age exist only among the ordinary people.

All the more talented and exceptional of us are sometimes old and sometimes young.

Just as we are sometimes happy, and sometimes sad.

Hermann Hesse

Foxy

[Earl Aelfheah]

It isn't 'illegal' to ask someone's age, but it is irrelevant and enough to establish a prima facie case in any age discrimination claim.

[JoeLeg]

I find it ridiculous that anyone would discriminate on the grounds of age. Two of the hardest working, most reliable members of staff I have are in their late forties and fifties respectively, and put people half their age to shame. I'm glad that they actually seem to enjoy working for us, because they demonstrate perfectly to never judge a book by its cover.

On the other hand the most unreliable have been those under the age of 25. Doesn't mean they can't become good staff, but they take a lot more training.

It's not true that age is just a number; it's more than that, it's an indicator of experience, patience and understanding, all of which is beyond valuable. I would go in and ask them why your application wasn't considered, people shouldn't be allowed to get away with it if they are doing that, and there's always the chance this is an honest mistake (of which I've been guilty of sometimes).

[Gaynor Hill]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I find it ridiculous that anyone would

> discriminate on the grounds of age. Two of the

> hardest working, most reliable members of staff I

> have are in their late forties and fifties

> respectively, and put people half their age to

> shame. I'm glad that they actually seem to enjoy

> working for us, because they demonstrate perfectly

> to never judge a book by its cover.

>

> On the other hand the most unreliable have been

> those under the age of 25. Doesn't mean they can't

> become good staff, but they take a lot more

> training.

>

> It's not true that age is just a number; it's more

> than that, it's an indicator of experience,

> patience and understanding, all of which is beyond

> valuable. I would go in and ask them why your

> application wasn't considered, people shouldn't be

> allowed to get away with it if they are doing

> that, and there's always the chance this is an

> honest mistake (of which I've been guilty of

> sometimes).

Thank you but after I emailed 53 and had no response the next day emailed stating I had a family death that evening so would not be around but would still like to send my CV for future opportunities if the position was filled by then and still no response. To me it's just common Curtis to reply even if it's to say sorry for your loss

[Sue]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It isn't 'illegal' to ask someone's age, but it is

> irrelevant and enough to establish a prima facie

> case in any age discrimination claim.

That's weird, because I had to train a whole load of people when the legislation was brought in, both in my own company and their clients' companies.

http://www.acas.org.uk/index.aspx?articleid=1841

[uncleglen]

My sister had no trouble getting office jobs in small businesses after she was 50- one of the interviewers actually told her that one of the reasons she got the job was because she was unlikely to go off and breed!

[Pugwash]

I retired several years past my official retirement age and gave my employer 3 months notice. Right up to 3 weeks prior to my leaving date, my boss asked me to stay on due to my experience. Since retirement ages are rising more and more people will be working into their 70s.

When I worked in HR - had to number all the applications that came in and short list them on the grounds of meeting the selection criteria and were not allowed to consider age, sex or ethnicity. There were times when it was essential that a particular language was needed i.e. Cantonese, Mandarin, Urdu etc but this was clear in the criteria requirement.

[Robert Poste's Child]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> My sister had no trouble getting office jobs in

> small businesses after she was 50- one of the

> interviewers actually told her that one of the

> reasons she got the job was because she was

> unlikely to go off and breed!

Also illegal!