Whilst shopping at the dulwich fair on goose green today... (Lounged)

[dully]

...Did anyone see the golliwogs for sale? I was a bit surprised.

[davidh]

but were you offended?

[Dee Woffaz]

Gollys maybe, not Gollywogs, Gollys are not offensive. I think Gollywogs would be.::o

[dully]

Yes, I found it offensive. What is not offensive about having a toy that is based on a black male slave? Specifically a slave that the super rich would have to display their wealth. So rich they could afford to keep a field worker dressed civilly and have him in the house and obedient. It was seen as a thrill and a bit of a challenge. The reason there was a golliwog on the robinson's jam is that this black male slave got to hand out the jam in privileged homes. Hence making it to the jam jar as an aspirational ideal. Do I think it is offensive to have a toy that depicts a black person as pet and play thing specifically within the setting of a slave? That children would keep. There was good reason that robinsons finally lost the gollywog and they had to remake noddy. We've all seen the extras episode. I'd have dumped her in a second.

A golly is a golliwog Gollywog Just because some enterprising soul decided to drop the wog bit down the line does not detract away from the original idea.

No I'm not black and I don't think you have to be to care.

[KidKruger]

I wonder if there is a market for / would be a protest against a Gollyhonky.

Obviously the slave dimension wouldn't be relevant, but as a new toy market line.

[Hackblade]

Well done, dully, you have established your own impeccable anti-racist credentials while simultaneously stirring up fresh racial controversy.

[Jeremy]

dully Wrote:

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> No I'm not black

That's not what you said a couple of months ago:

dully Wrote:

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> Me as a black youth went to university as did all

> the other black youths in my year at school.

Obviously golliwogs are offensive to any intelligent person, but you are a liar and a troll.

[Dee Woffaz]

Maybe we could have a Captain John Hawkins doll that could be hung or mutilated as required. Unfortunately slavery is not a thing of the past, the cigarette industry, GAP, Abercrombie & Fitch, Nike. In fact most sports wear manutacturers and anywhere that sells very cheap clothing. It is now re branded as Sweat Shop labour, however it is fundamentally the same. These people will never be clebrated in history, albeit with shame of the past. This their way of life its what they have to do to survive. Who knows if the 'Gollys' come from the Asian continent they may well have been made by the afore mentioned just to put food in their mouths...

[Debi]

I have to admit I'm really shocked that anyone can fail to understand that golliwogs are deeply offensive. I don't care who's writing the post and their identity and ethnicity are not the point here. Having 'toys' of this nature on sale at a community event is what needs to be talked about.

I really enjoyed the fair and didn't know these things were on sale until I saw the post here. I feel sure (and certainly hope) the organisers would agree that golliwogs are unacceptable at an event of this nature, which is supposed to be inclusive of the whole community.

Edited to add they would be offensive at any event, unless it was one that highlighted the history and symbolism of golliwogs.

[Sue]

Did you complain to the stall where they were on sale?

[StraferJack]

Jeremy deserves more kudos for his skewering a few posts back...

[Sue]

What stall was supposed to be selling them?

[Huggers]

edited for obviousness

[Alex K]

At least it didn't have a sign around its neck reading "Headmistress".

OF COURSE GOLLIWOG DOLLS ARE OFFENSIVE TO MANY PEOPLE. If you're among those people, don't buy a golliwog doll.

OF COURSE SAME-SEX MARRIAGE IS OFFENSIVE TO MANY PEOPLE. If you're among those people, don't marry someone of your own sex.

And leave other people to get on with their lives, eh, Dully?

[Shaggy]

Actually, nobody has answered Dully's question. Did anybody else see the dolls for sale?

[*Bob*]

Since we have already learned that 'dully' is a barefaced liar with a taste for trolling, I'd be inclined to await confirmation from at least one vaguely reputable source before tearing the place apart on a wild golliwog chase.

[Penguin68]

It is worthwhile pointing out that the original gollywog character, created by the American Florence Kate Upton in 1895, although clearly what we would now see as an offensive racial stereotype, was portrayed as a broadly sympathetic character, and gollywog dolls were often very much loved and cared for by their owners. The Black and White Minstrel show, now seen as horrendous (and using much the same stereotype) was in its day loved by millions, and not seen by them as an adverse racial commentary, but as a way of embodying a (much enjoyed) style of singing. We now see why that is wrong, and unecessary, but we shouldn't read back our sensibilities to other generations. Neither portrayal created either fear or loathing of a different race, in their time, although even then they could be used by those already with that attitude to further offend. We now see stereoptying as clearly wrong, but to stereotype then wasn't necessarily to hate, or even disparage.

[Sporthuntor]

No golliwogs sighted. Good paella though.

[ianr]

>Since we have already learned that 'dully' is a barefaced liar with a taste for trolling

I've looked through some of dully's previous posts, and that description seems to me extreme and not what I'd have previously inferred. I'd be inclined just to wait for her response. I don't know her personally.

[Anotherperson]

Bob/Sean paranoid

[StraferJack]

not sure you know what paranoid means - but just for clarity Jeremy posted the following

"dully Wrote:

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> No I'm not black

That's not what you said a couple of months ago:

dully Wrote:

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> Me as a black youth went to university as did all

> the other black youths in my year at school.

"

so is dully a liar or not?

[Anotherperson]

Is he black tho?

[StraferJack]

whichever ethnic background he/she is is moot - they have no credibility because they have been caught lying

[Bunny19]

Spot on p

[maxxi]

*Bob* Wrote:

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> Since we have already learned that 'dully' is a

> barefaced liar with a taste for trolling, I'd be

> inclined to await confirmation from at least one

> vaguely reputable source before tearing the place

> apart on a wild golliwog chase.

If I don't see such a chase advertised in the 'What's on in East Dulwich' arena (Wild Golliwog Chase from Dulwich Library to Clockhouse, June 6th!)i will know it has all been a bit of a red golliwog.