changing relationships...

[helena handbasket]

So glad I found this thread!

My relationship with my mother has never been great, but wow it's really hit a new low since my son came along. It makes me really sad, actually, because I look around at "everyone else" who seems to have normal mums that they can have an actual conversation with and rely on and I absolutely know what I'm missing. But she's so unhealthy to be around.

She's a really sad and angry person, and I spent my sad and angry teenage years pleading with her to get help. My beaten down father just enabled her and instead she found fifty different ways to blame me. Nice. She spent my entire childhood doing this; imagine how mad I was as an adult to realize that I was actually a gorgeous, smart, NORMAL child and not the unlovable beast she got stuck with. She would say things like "I would be happy to buy you a new dress if you weren't fat but it's juts too embarrassing" and "Thingy and Whatsit's daughters looked so wonderful tonight, but they're just so thin and lovely". It went on and on, every day for years, and now as a mum the irony hasn't escaped me that my chubbiness was due to her feeding me and not making the effort to get active with me. She was pleased for me to hide somewhere indoors with a book and I was happy to hide from her.

I entered the big world at 18 a broken girl, and people do not treat broken girls well. Might have read here, or somewhere, a statement that predators don't look for pretty girls, they look for broken girls. I was lucky but I'll never forgive her for my teenage years. Luckily I had some brains and frankly a lifetime of building myself up in spite of her gave me a pretty good set of ba??$. I moved far away and earned two degrees from university completely on my own.

Anyway, I'm not throwing a pity party but through it all we are still pretending to be happy families and now that I'm a mother I'm more and more enraged by her inability to get over herself for my benefit at any point of my life. When I look at my son I see a lot of me and I see those sparkling eyes and huge gorgeous grin and I just want to eat him up all day long........... and I can't help but wonder how she didn't see the same things? I start to think about the million hours I've spent at the park or our long bedtime snuggles and all that and realize I have no memory of any of that, not even hugs and certainly not anything resembling emotional comfort. And as sad as it is to think about why she was so low, I then remember what I have had to overcome to become a mostly healthy, loving and somewhat sane person and how I would do ANYTHING to make sure my son felt loved and good about himself and I can't help but feel pity more than anything.

The truth is I'm no longer that sad girl desperately trying to get this miserable person to love me but I want my son to have grandparents (and they do love him) so I suck it up and seethe contempt across the dining room table and smirk when she gives parenting advice. Consequently she practically trembles with hostility and I no longer care. Someone asked if one person going to therapy can help the dynamic; ha well in my case I'd say no lol. What did help was understanding my boundaries with her. Sadly for me that means emotionally closing myself around her so she can't hurt me. Oh yeah, happy happy families. When it starts to get ugly (and it always does) we remove ourselves as I don't want my son to feel the ugliness.

The point to this long winded diary entry is that we are so tied to our mothers that it's personally and socially uncomfortable to admit that my mother is the last person I would go to for help or support. I don't really talk about it and most of my friends don't really know but must suspect. My husband gets it and was actually the first person to ever say to me "It's not you. It's her". I've worked hard my whole life to make up for her nonsense and dammit there is no way I'm going to put her on a grandmother pedestal now........ feels immature as many have mentioned but shouldn't she earn it?

But as I said before, I do know what I'm missing. And I think I've shared way too much:))

[cuppa tea]

Helena - What is amazing out of all this is that despite a somewhat shitty start in life and very difficult early years you have come through it and are a enjoying being a mum with your own son and loving him fully...very aware of what a lack of love does. It's very hard to have the spark of life and rebellion to realise that who someone makes you feel is not actually who you are. I wonder where the energy comes from to be able to do this? I have not totally managed to break free of this. Sometimes when my son pushes me to the limit..and he really really does this regularly, I do sound like my mother and all my understanding and compassion go out the window. It's incredibly hard to get over. When you become a mum somehow your childhood becomes very poignant and it's hard to understand how our parents could behave in such an uncaring way. But I think it's probably helpful, as you can remember so clearly how these throw away remarks build up in a little person's mind to become who they are. Comparisons, shaming, controlling...all these things have a bigger effect than it seems to an adult.

I don't think my own mum was happy in her marriage or her life for those first 15 years of my life and perhaps that is some explanation. It's just such a complicated relationship. I am so protective of my own kids. I'm not particularly sure I would want my son to stay over with her without me there. I find this sad, as well as not giving me the break that I could have. That I see other people have.

Anyway, good on you for getting through it and getting on with raising your son in a different way.

[helena handbasket]

Isn't it awful when you can't trust your mother with your children? Mine has made a few passive aggressive moves against me that involved my son and that was absolutely the final straw. Once while visiting them she thought she would feed him a really processed cheese dish and I said that he'd had enough "crap food" for one day. The next day we left him for a couple of hours and when we got home she hadn't fed him lunch because "I think everything she does is crap". This is my mother.

I think that if she toned down the bonkers a bit it would be harder to deal with, actually, because I would always wonder if I was reading into it. As it is, I don't have to second guess myself because it's obviously her.:)

I can't pretend to be the perfect mum, and I certainly have my moments with my spirited handful of a son. But once in a while when I lose my cool, I make sure that I tell him that it was about ME having a bad moment and not anything he has done. We talk a lot about feelings and being human and how people have bad behavior when we're tired or sad etc.. This is not something I ever heard and so really all roads led to me being horrible. I actually think I could have lived with the tirades and guilt/shame lectures if they had been followed with a sorry or a hug, but they didn't.

Honestly I think the reason I was able to rise above it was because I always felt like she was crazy and her opinions held little value. I also needed to prove her wrong and win her affection, but of course I now know that was never going to happen. To this day she has no idea how messed up she is and thinks I'm the problem.

Whatever.:)-D

[sillywoman]

Wow Helena, Thankyou so much for being so honest about your Mum. there's so much of your post that I could have written but this bit;

"and now that I'm a mother I'm more and more enraged by her inability to get over herself for my benefit at any point of my life"

is straight out of my mouth. I've posted elsewhere on this forum in the past about my crap Mum, so I won't repeat myself. Suffice to say that I too read the NCT thing about how your relationship with your Mum gets stronger after the birth of your first child, and my blood boiled, because for me the birth of my first child was the catalyst for opening my eyes to just how bad a Mother mine really is - mind, it's taken me 15 painful years to really accept it though.

It's so good to realise that it's not just Me (cos it does feel like that - like there must be something wrong with me if not even my Mother wants to be a Mum to me), & that there others out there with crap Mums too who feel the same frustration, hurt and anger. It's difficult to see your Mum friends being looked after and helped by their Mums, to watch their Mums building relationships with the grandchildren and to know that you won't be getting any of that, and it happens so often that you feel like it's only you. I've often felt that it's like a dirty little secret that I couldn't share - My Mum isn't interested in me, mine or my life.

So Thankyou HH, and ruth, & reren, & LEDF, & all you others for being brave enough to share. It really does help a lot.

[womanofdulwich]

what about dads?? what do you think about them ? my dad def changed once my mum had died, his whole attitude to children was always good, but after mum died, he said there was no point making an issue about 99% of stuff, which was not important in the long run.

[helena handbasket]

Thanks Sillywoman!

I agree with all you've said. I think I used to not talk about it to protect her, if you can imagine. But I don't feel like she's done much to protect me and frankly internalizing it for 30++ years wasn't healthy, so what is there to lose?

But you know what? I've come a long way and done some amazing things and I have done it without a bit of help, so as far as I'm concerned her crap just made me faster, smarter, stronger. Still, life is hard and being an "emotional orphan" is lonely. I have always desperately wanted a normal mum, and I know that I will never know what that feels like. I'm still coming to terms with that but being a mum has turned my attention to the sunshine of my son rather than her dreary clouds!

[Jhoana]

.....

[littleEDfamily]

Having caught up on this thread, all I can think about is how much I don't want my girls to be writing these sorts of things about me in 30 years' time! I may even print it off for future reference!

[zeban]

HH, don't you think it's time you forgive your Mum?

We all make mistakes and when we become adults is when we realise that being human means being imperfect. I don't know your mum or the extent of your issues with her but I've had my ups and downs with my Mum and finally in the last few years I have really took it upon myself to understand her, and now I forguve her and our relationship is great and I'd hate it to be anything else. I've been to counselling and mourned the things I feel I was let down on/didn't have.

You only have one Mum in life and I have friends who lost theirs a long time ago. I can imagine my relationship might get abit difficult with my Mum when I have children although it might not be, but it sounds as though yours is just a continuum of what your relationship has been like for a long time. Calling your Mum a crap Mum is horrible and quite frankly sounds a bit childish. You're an adult now afterall.

Also, maybe she had/has depression?

[Jhoana]

I had a very wonderful childhood as I have 2 uncles and my older brother and my stepfather who

had care and love me until now. I was proud to have 4 fathers but I always miss

my real dad. You have miss the plot becouse you don't know much about peoples lives

if you have not finished reading the book please do not comment.

[zeban]

Jhoana, I'm sorry but I have no idea what you're talking about I'm afraid. Personally I was referring to Helena Handbasket

[helena handbasket]

zeban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HH, don't you think it's time you forgive your

> Mum?

>

> We all make mistakes and when we become adults is

> when we realise that being human means being

> imperfect. I don't know your mum or the extent of

> your issues with her but I've had my ups and downs

> with my Mum and finally in the last few years I

> have really took it upon myself to understand her,

> and now I forguve her and our relationship is

> great and I'd hate it to be anything else. I've

> been to counselling and mourned the things I feel

> I was let down on/didn't have.

>

> You only have one Mum in life and I have friends

> who lost theirs a long time ago. I can imagine my

> relationship might get abit difficult with my Mum

> when I have children although it might not be, but

> it sounds as though yours is just a continuum of

> what your relationship has been like for a long

> time. Calling your Mum a crap Mum is horrible and

> quite frankly sounds a bit childish. You're an

> adult now afterall.

>

> Also, maybe she had/has depression?

Yes she has depression. Obviously. Is that an excuse? I have spent 25 years pleading with her get therapy etc. but apparently I'm not worth it to her.

I didn't say she was a crap mum. I said the way she has treated me my entire life is crap.

I actually think it's funny that the best way to respond to a post I write about being called names and blamed and shamed by my mother is to call me a name and blame and shame me. Childish? I've been called worse......... by my own mother!

Seriously Zeban, I'm not sure you are grasping the situation.......

[Jhoana]

Thank you to everyone for all this comments unfortunate everyone seems to have miss understood

my messages is very sad to have seen so much time being spend on here and no guess.

I have been throwing notes to people who didn't get it. The whole messge of all this was about

We are a very happy married couple my husband is aware of the Forum as you know

I thought someone was trying to meet a married woman but she was clever enough

to avoid disconformity.

I do apologise but he need it to know as I am happy with my relationship becouse

we are not just husband and wife we are best friends.

Sorry and now I should live you all to finished the book.

[zeban]

Hmmm.. well I just re read your posts and I do think I didn't understand fully. But I do think you could forgive her one day

[Jhoana]

We have not stop laughing with my friends and my husband as we think all of you need

some kind of help but I am sorry all of you have choosen the wrong person

sorry if I couldn't help maybe next time you should try something else like

animals becouse animals are the best friends of human beings.

[helena handbasket]

"Why are you so defensive anyway HH?" Omg are you serious? Now I'm "laughing out loud".

And done "publicly shaming myself" for being honest about a really CRAPPY part of life.

*I guess you have just edited your post (which was crappy!) so mine no longer makes sense.

[Jhoana]

Jhoana Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> We have not stop laughing with my friends and my

> husband as we think all of you need

> some kind of help but I am sorry all of you have

> choosen the wrong person

> sorry if I couldn't help maybe next time you

> should try something else like

> animals becouse animals are the best friends of

> human beings.

Forgot to say that I had printed some of the messages for him and I have a friend coming

this weekend she was part of the game too. We all enjoy

Thank you very much for the hospitality.

[Jhoana]

I am honest and I am not a defensive person I have seen a lot of defensive people not far from here but not

in my area. Wich is great!:)

[Jhoana]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Why are you so defensive anyway HH?" Omg are

> you serious? Now I'm "laughing out loud".

>

> And done "publicly shaming myself" for being

> honest about a really CRAPPY part of life.

>

> *I guess you have just edited your post (which was

> crappy!) so mine no longer makes sense.

You have also deleted some of your messages but mine still make sense becouse I can not forget

the good times.

[zeban]

Jhoana I'm still lost with your posts. care to fill us in?

[Jhoana]

helena handbasket Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "Why are you so defensive anyway HH?" Omg are

> you serious? Now I'm "laughing out loud".

>

> And done "publicly shaming myself" for being

> honest about a really CRAPPY part of life.

>

> *I guess you have just edited your post (which was

> crappy!) so mine no longer makes sense.

You have also deleted some of your messages but mine still make sense becouse I can not

forget the good times. :)

[zeban]

I'm sorry that was such a crappy time in your life HH, but have you told her that? have you expressed to her in an adult way all of the hurt and anger you feel? or are you just venting on here?

[Jhoana]

The good news is that everyone knows so I really hope nobody is injured. LIKE FOOTBALL FOCUS

[helena handbasket]

I'm not venting on here at all. Somebody asked a question and I answered it in the way I know how to answer it, which is honestly.

There is no such thing as an adult conversation with my mother. She has a similar relationship with her parents and siblings BTW. Lucky for them their entire self development wasn't reliant on her moods like mine was though.

[Smiler]

Zeban, the "why don't you forgive her" and subsequent comments are obnoxious, patronising and out of order.