changing relationships...

[Smiler]

A couple of people have mentioned that they continue to see parents who were awful as parents because they'd like their kids to have grandparents. Personally I think that it can be just as good for kids to spend time with any adults who are caring, interested etc, who don't necessarily need to be even related. Eg uncles, aunts, friends, random older relatives. My husband, for example, had a lovely great-aunt who was more like a grandmother. I saw a lot of one of my mum's friends (who never had kids) and stayed in touch for many years.

As a kid we saw v little of one set of grandparents because as a parent the grandad had been violent and horrible. The others were not great either. Don't feel we missed out much as we had other people who were much more kindly and who we saw regularly, and, importantly, who did not visibly upset our parents. Kids also really pick up on tension between people.

[sillywoman]

Forgiving the past is all fine & dandy, but it's not the past that we're talking about here. It's the present, current and continued behaviour into the future. How do you have a relationship that is 'great' with someone who does the verbal equivalent of sticking you with daggers every time you have a conversation, and when you see that abuse beginning to played out on your children then it's surely time to remove or distance yourself from that preson? We're not talking 'ups and downs' here Zeban, we're talking sustained and continued emotional abuse, for whatever reason. That's not really something a bit of forgiveness can remedy.

As a Mum I'm only too aware of my human frailties. I know that there's every possibility that my daughter will be feeling like this about me at some points in her life. No relationship is perfect, but I also know that I'm very different to my Mum. I care and I show it - even if it does make me vulnerable. I'm watching for these times and won't be afraid to tackle them head on. A continued relationship with my child, and the offer of my support as they grow to adulthood is the most important thing to me.

As for HH being 'childish', well I can't find the words to explain the depth of anger that kind of thoughtless and damaging comment aroused in me. Just because you've sorted out your 'ups and downs' you shouldn't assume to be expert on anyone else's relationship. This has become a thread where people are sharing their sense of hurt and loss due to bad parenting after they've had children of their own. Until you have experience of this yourself (and I hope you never do) you really should refrain from commenting. Your criticism is not constructive - It's immature and unhelpful. Have you ever heard the expression 'walk a mile in a mans shoes before you judge him'? Good advice to you in this instance.

[Lookyours]

Some people care for their mothers but nobody seems to have care enough for them.

As their behaviour towards other people in this forum Bullying, Harrasing discrimitaning is not a normal thing

to do when you think you were brought up in the right way to respect other people.What example we are giving to our children if they don't know what you are doing here. Asking the victims to report the police.

And some things involve, tips to waiters, CCTV, parties, and others things etc.

My best wishes to everybody as everyone needs happiness around them to find the inner peace.

And God bless to everyone.

[ClareC]

zeban Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> HH, don't you think it's time you forgive your

> Mum?

>

> We all make mistakes and when we become adults is

> when we realise that being human means being

> imperfect. I don't know your mum or the extent of

> your issues with her but I've had my ups and downs

> with my Mum and finally in the last few years I

> have really took it upon myself to understand her,

> and now I forguve her and our relationship is

> great and I'd hate it to be anything else. I've

> been to counselling and mourned the things I feel

> I was let down on/didn't have.

>

> You only have one Mum in life and I have friends

> who lost theirs a long time ago. I can imagine my

> relationship might get abit difficult with my Mum

> when I have children although it might not be, but

> it sounds as though yours is just a continuum of

> what your relationship has been like for a long

> time. Calling your Mum a crap Mum is horrible and

> quite frankly sounds a bit childish. You're an

> adult now afterall.

>

> Also, maybe she had/has depression?

The above post is insensitive, uncalled for and totally irrelevant to the thread!

I read it early hours of this morning on my iphone whilst feeding my son. I was initially shocked and then it just made my blood boil that the poster would write such a post following HH post's which clearly was written with a great deal of thought and apprehension about an extremely sensitive subject. I still feel strongly about this this morning and have logged onto my laptop to post especially! No mean feat with a newborn and 15mth old ;-)

On a more positive note, I totally agree with LittleEDfamily comment

"Having caught up on this thread, all I can think about is how much I don't want my girls to be writing these sorts of things about me in 30 years' time! I may even print it off for future reference! "

It makes me really sad to think of the possibility of my daughter ever feeling this way in the future.

[Llmonks]

I think if you daughter knows what some people have been on about it on this forum. I can definitely beleive

she will be wrighting something about you or others in 30 years.

She would also be looking to appologise on your behalf to the residents who has been

discriminated by some people here for the past 7 years until now.

Hope the future generations don't learn this bad habbits from previous posters.

[Llmonks]

Lookyours Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Some people care for their mothers but nobody

> seems to have care enough for them.

> As their behaviour towards other people in this

> forum Bullying, Harrasing discrimitaning is not a

> normal thing

> to do when you think you were brought up in the

> right way to respect other people.What example we

> are giving to our children if they don't know what

> you are doing here. Asking the victims to report

> the police.

> And some things involve, tips to waiters, CCTV,

> parties, and others things etc.

>

> My best wishes to everybody as everyone needs

> happiness around them to find the inner peace.

>

> And God bless to everyone.

...,,,...,,,

[GinaG3]

Me and the mother in law always got on, very well in fact. Until I had my daughter. We were living with them at the time as my mother kicked me out when she found out I was pregnant. The first 6 months of my daughters life were chaotic. I really struggled with breastfeeding and she wasn't gaining weight to the HVs liking. I was being criticized left right and centre for not putting her on formula. My mother in law was good in this sense as she had breastfed my partner for 18 months (and had quite a lot of stick off her own mother for extended feeding..) and sister in law for 6 months as she wasn't a very keen breastfeeder. We had a fall out when my daughter was 5 months old to the point I left the house in the middle of the night baby in toe and walked to my friends house. I stayed there for a week before things settled and I went back. No apology, even to this day but we get on much better again now. Very different parenting style. The fall out came through weaning, when I was offering puree vegetable and fruit only. They didn't understand why I wasn't feeding her 'properly'. They expected banana porridge in the morning, lunch and then a heavy family meal whizzed up a night. This was too much, at 5-6 months old. Allergies are a huge problem in my family too, where as the in laws never dealt with any allergies. I was introducing 1 thing every 2 weeks, I was trying to do right by my child, and watching for allergies too. After the fall out we were desperate for our own place, when my daughter was 9 months we moved into the first place that would rent to us. Such a relief! The relationship is much better now, although they now don't understand why I wont allow nuts until 3 years but they are getting there!! Still feel a bit undermined (when shes at nanas house anything goes - very spoilt - presents everywhere - chocolate, cakes etc) but were trying to sort through this now. I cant have her expecting this treatment all the time, her behaviour is unbelievable when she doesn't get her own way.

On the other hand, I had an awful relationship with my own mum my whole life. I was asked to leave and I moved to London when 2 months pregnant. We didn't speak at all until my daughter was born when my family drove up to Kings College to see us. Shocking! My mum became my rock at the beginning of my daughter life, we spoke 4-5 times a day over the phone (as she is 100+ miles away on the coast) she helped me battle through my breastfeeding struggles having breastfed 5 children into toddlerhood. As my daughter grew up we got closer and closer. We spoke everyday, and she regularly sends boxes of clothes and toys. I never thought I'd have a relationship with my mum, but I'm glad I do. I think the was expecting a different parenting style, being a teenage mum (I might add she was a year younger than me when she had my eldest sister - hypocrite) but I managed to successfully breastfeed until my daughter self weaned the day before her 2nd birthday, I co-slept for 16 months, and I parented to the absolute best of my ability. I think she was a massive change in me. And I'd like to think she feels proud of me. Anyone should if they knew me as a wayward teenager. My daughter completely changed my life and my relationship with my parents. Its been an amazing journey the last 2 years. I even told my mum a massive secret about myself, I'd been holding back for 6-7 years.

[EmilyE]

I think it is difficult for people who have basically good relationships with their parents to understand how bad a dysfunctional relationship can be.

I am lucky enough to have very good relationships with my parents. When I met my partner he was vitriolic about his own father and I naively thought that he was exaggerating, that it couldn't be that bad, that through better communication understanding etc, we could improve the relationship. 15 years on, we sort of have, but only really by distancing ourselves. My father-in-law is possibly the most difficult (and sometimes offensive) man I have met and my otherwise well-adjusted husband still struggles with this.

Many relationships need work, but some need to be left. Most parents are great, but some are appalling, and surely to carry on hitting your head against a brick wall does nobody any good.

Those of us who have 'up and down' relationships need to thank our lucky stars and try to hold the hands of those who aren't so fortunate.

[zeban]

I'm sorry HH, my first post was out of line as I didn't realise it was still happening. But I still don't understand why she's behaving like this if she knows how much it hurts you... or does she? I know it might sound obvious that she would but maybe she doesn't understand just how much it has affacted you. Have you got angry with her or are you grinning your teeth and baring it? I don't want to sound patronising but sometimes I do wonder how many family issues are allowed to go on for years because no one actually says how they really feel.

[Pamelita]

GinaG3 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

[Pamelita]

My childhood is been the happiest time of my life and can't complain about my wonderful husband and my best friend at the same time.

We meet with my in laws every two weeks and we go on short breaks with them most of the times

as my husband is the only child and the four of us speaking our own native languages is always a good fun.

we correct each others languages and having a good laugh.

[Saffron]

It's not just your relationship with your parents that changes when you have a baby. Your relationship with your siblings can change too. The nicest thing I can say about one of my brothers is that he's an abusive, parasitic, manipulative liar, who is aware of his behaviour and makes no measures to change it.

I have for years been putting up with his behaviour. Shortly before I got pregnant, I disowned him. And after my daughter was born, I decided this was the right decision. I don't want to be around someone who treats me like that, and I won't have someone treat me like that in front of my daughter. It's sad though, b/c he still lives with our parents, and I won't visit them b/c of this. So even though my relationship with my mother is pretty good, I don't see her very often as she lives overseas.

Like others have suggested, sometimes it helps if you can get support from friends instead of family. Hubby and I are lucky that we have many great older friends who are nearby.

Cuppa Tea, do you have anyone like that?

xx

[Otta]

There was an article in the NCT magazine a few months ago about how your relationship with your Mum can change after having children. It was all about how the relationship got stronger and more empathic now that you both had the shared experience of motherhood.

Typical NCT "life smells of roses" drivel.

My wife has had more issues with my mum, than her own. My mum can be a bit needy, and insecure, and just always tends to push things a bit too far. It does my head in, but I know it's not malicious. My wife isn't so sure, and seems to think that there are womanly games afoot (a thing that I am quite glad I know nothing about, you women are all far too complex).

Her relationship with her own mum about parenting is very good, and that is probably because her mum was a hippy, and did everything the "attachment parenting" way, so basically, my wife is doing most of the same things. My mum on the other hand just did things the way that one did things in the late 70s, and that is probably where the conflict comes from.

I think you only need to look at threads on here, to see that people are very protective of their personal choices about parenting. To routine, or not routine. Controlled crying great / controlled crying evil, and so on. And I have noticed that a lot of women can get a little bit judgemental about people from the opposite camp to them.

I suspect that this is often the reason for strained relations with mum's mums. One would like to think that your mother will be very supportive of you, but they probably think that they're just giving you a bit of friendly advise, because they've been there, and seemed to manage okay, and you're not a mentalist, so they must've done a good enough job.

You have my sympathies, as it can't be a good situation.

[helena handbasket]

Hi Cuppa tea, sorry your thread got a bit odd there. Back to your OP.....

I think that when we have children we become so incredibly vulnerable that we need assurance all the time. If we did not have that relationship with our mother before, it's not likely to suddenly be natural to her. I'm just guessing, but it sounds like there might be some previous issues between the two of you? In my case I found it much easier to not worry about it when I was younger because I was in uni, spending time with friends etc. and generally not needing as much connection. But when I had my son it really hit home how much I wished I had a mum who could be relied on and not make me always feel worse. You get tricked over and over, right? You think it's something you're doing, and if you could just be nicer this time everything will be fine and so you try again because you need "a mum". But remember, before you came along your mum might have been that woman at work that nobody gets along with! Our mums are as varied as our babies.

When my son was born I asked my parents to give me a week or so for us to be home alone as a family. As it turned out I was scheduled for a c-section my parents offered to come sooner to help. I was so scared and vulnerable that I actually thought that my mother was coming to help! I said yes and they turned up the next day. For the next week they totally took over holding my baby while I ended up in the kitchen making meals and learning how to deal with bottles (I think I could have established BF better had they just left us alone!) Post surgical I should add! None of this bed bliss for mother and baby, I was running a B&B AND not getting to hold my new babe. A few weeks later as a Christmas present my mother gave me a photo album completely full of photos of her and the baby. Not a single one of me, or my husband, or our new little family. Just her. This was the moment I knew that things were not going to be "that way" for us.

I think if the issue is just parenting styles than it can be more easily fixed maybe? I can't think of any style that is so extreme as to be really obvious. I took a lot of flack from my family for having my son's sleep scheduled but not a single one of them ever came to offer to help me when I was mental with sleep deprivation and PND so I didn't give their opinions much thought. I do think if you are disagreeing over parenting styles there must be something a bit deeper that's coming out through that. My mum's family are all bullies.

I have never minced words on here about how I feel about categories for parents..... AP, CC, BF etc. to me is all a load of BS because none of it really matters in the long haul. If there is lots of love and hugs and your child feels like a worthwhile person than you've won the game. The rest is about you. Adults have different sleeping styles, do we ask each other about that? We all eat different foods, different times of day but nobody cares. What difference does it make? That's the part I learned early on, when someone asks I just think "why do you care?" and move on. I'm actually quite a strong advocate in some ways for structure because I never had any and consequently I got everything wrong, all the time. In hindsight the seeds for what would become generalized anxiety disorder were planted firmly by the time I was 7 or 8. When you don't know what's expected of you but you know you will be punished verbally when you get it wrong, it makes you a nervous wreck.

There now I've gone off the rails again! I just want to add: I read all the time in parenting books that one must keep a cool head, be the adult and all that. But I realize that in a parent/child relationship age is irrelevant. If the parent is not acting like the adult, the child can't either. And if the parent is your adult mother acting like a teenage bully........... Hmmmmmmm

[sb]

.

[sb]

.

[Belle]

Yes, hats off to HH. I've known a couple of women who've been unfortunate enough to have similarly difficult/non existent relationships with their mothers and I just admire them and HH so much for being able to persevere, come through the other side and not only that but raise a child in a loving and nurturing way despite this.

[cuppa tea]

Well, I certainly not on my own in having problems relating to my mother!

I think that perhaps I am somehow expecting my mum to be able to change and she can't. She's not a horrid person, but she's overbearing and controlling and I suppose I don't want this to continue over how I bring up my kids. She genuinely thinks everything she does has my best interests at heart...and this is what makes it so difficult, as I end up being mean to her myself and I then get given a hug guilt trip. She has said before that she almost feels a bit jealous over me breastfeeding my kids. I suppose the intimacy of it. That she can no longer have this and this part of her life has passed. I understand all these complicated emotions in her, just I don't get how she can feel like this yet not understand how my 4 year old will also have these jealousy feelings. I wonder whether sometimes grandparents, instead of taking on their new role, actually end up mourning a previous time when we were their babies. Certainly my mum acts as though she should be able to be given more control and respect than she does. HH - do you think your mum is jealous? The photos thing is really quite odd. Sometimes my mum behaves like this. Wanting the attention and the glory. Almost like they are her children. I think with my son she struggles, as in lots of ways he is his own person and doesn't generally do things to please other people. She thinks I allow him to be rude to her out of some kind of revenge. He's rude to her because she treats him with no respect. I asked her to talk to him as she would talk to another adult she respected, but she can't do it. He picks up on all the stress and his behaviour is worse when she is around.

Yes, we have always had a difficult relationship. I think people with good relationships with their mothers are unlikely to find that they suddenly have problems after they have kids. But with us it is so much worse since my kids came along. I have never been allowed to makes mistakes while growing up and it is the same now, except how can you not make a single mistake when bringing up kids?? It's impossible. But I don't want to make the same mistakes she did...because those ones are easily avoidable. I can remember how it felt from the other side. Anyway, not opening myself up to be critisised is one way forward. Stop justifying and defending my choices, and stopping complaining about how tired and tough it can be. Then there is no reason for anyone to comment. It would be real freedom to not give a damn about what anyone thinks.

[littleEDfamily]

Cuppa I think there is something in your point about mums feeling unable to separate your parenting experience from their own. I find that pretty much any other woman who has had kids finds it impossible not to 'relive' how they parented their babies. My MIL talks non-stop about how her kids were as babies ever since we have had our kids. I suppose they can't help but compare, and those comparisons must sometimes lead to complex and painful emotions. Conversely, my favourite Aunt who never had children is completely non-judgemental about the whole childraising thing and a wonderful support (not that there aren't grandmothers out there that aren't like this, but you get my drift)

[new mother]

Very interesting thread. At least cuppa, your mother does what the best for you as it appears that other "mothers" exist who don't. That I find very odd and almost anti evolution.

Re the photos, maybe this will lighten everyone's mood. The best man's wife at our wedding felt it helpful to bring her wedding albums to our wedding and show them around the top table. I was furious but laughed my head off when I saw my poor mother's face of fury and shock!

[BellendenBear]

I can't believe that this thread turned so nasty back there. Quite ironic that a thread that should have been about women sharing experiences and supporting each other turned into an excuse to criticise and highlight each other's inadequacies.

[Otta]

To be fair, everyone kissed and made up.

[dullified]

Reading through the posts it would seem in an odd way I?m quite lucky to have a mother who freely admits (despite having 3 children ? all accidental which might explain it) to having ?no advice to give? and that?s she is ?more an animal person?. She didn?t visit until my son was 5 weeks old as she knows how ?fraught life can be? with a newborn and even got his second birthday wrong this week. However I love her eccentricity, uniqueness and sense of humour even if she is of no practical use to me and is quite emotionally distant. I also understand why she doesn?t want to be particularly close to her own children (she was the only adopted child of a very overbearing mother). Personally I would like to be more involved with my own grandchildren but I shall certainly hold back from giving parenting advice unless asked for especially after reading through here. Will just discreetly volunteer my baby sitting and food cooking services. Definitely age not motherhood has brought us closer.

[Moi23]

.

[new mother]

I think overbearing or overly opinionated grandmas are easier to put up with when you know they are just obsessed with their new grandchild. It is the mothers who aren't very interested who are harder to deal with as it is so unnatural. Posters like Dully above however demonstrates that it can be done and I take my hat off to her, actually, for realising that her mother has issues and complexities she cannot change and has to accept/work around.