Condem plans

[Loz]

That's obvious thinking.

The Daily Mail is Conservative thinking.

[Tarot]

There are two sides to most things

[*Bob*]

Which side are those imaginary Nigerians on?

[DJKillaQueen]

Local authorities already have the power to force succeeded tenants to downsize and offer incentives to other tenants to downsize. Southwark however have not bothered most of the time to use those powers.

Also Southwark Council already uses short probationary tenancies for new tenants (usually of a year) and a secure tenancy is only offered after that. Any changes the coalition brings in will only apply to NEW tenancies and it is doubtful those new measures will do anything to improve the quantity of housing stock available as the majority of council tenants who work are in low paid jobs and tend to stay in low paid jobs.

The issue of charging up to 80% of market rents will be totally at the discretion of the local authority and can only be done until 2016. After that rents and rents rises will be subject to convergence and cannot be raised above 1% above inflation year on year.

The housing benefit proposals just haven?t been thought through.

Firstly the proposal to reduce HB for the long term unemployed after a year by 10% may well face a legal challenge. The base rate of benefit (ie JSA) cannot be reduced because that would require a judicial review of what is thought to be the minimum a person needs to live on, and in the current climate any review is likely to find that it actually needs to be increased. So this HB reform may well be challenged as a method to reduce the value of the base rate of benefit via an essential benefit.

The proposal for capping benefits is also a red herring. HB already is capped, but at a level relative to average local rents. The proposal is to reduce the cap to a level below average local rents and flatten the cap nationally. This means that the numbers of properties those reliant on HB can afford will be reduced, at a time when there is already a shortage of affordable housing. To me it is a measure likely to see a return to families being housed in expensive B&B accommodation because local authorities cannot find somewhere affordable to house them.

The hope is that private landlords will be forced to drop rents but the evidence is that this is not happening. Rents are increasing and private landlords are simply making their properties unavailable to those on HB.

A third of people in full time work require some level of HB because their salaries alone are not enough to pay their rent.

The shortage of social housing has been created by many things. The sale of almost 50% of local authority housing through right to buy along with a shortage of affordable housing in the private sector are the main reasons, but also a growing population in the south east has meant it is drastically short of affordable housing whilst other areas of the country have a surplus. Unfortunately the areas with surplus housing tend also to be the areas with highest unemployment.

It?s worth also pointing out that there is no shortage in housing, just affordable housing, and Immigration is NOT the primary cause of that crisis Tarot ? the over inflated housing market is the primary cause of the lack of affordable housing.

On immigrants and benefits?you really do not know what you are talking about here Tarot. Asylum seekers are not eligible for standard benefits. Also illegal migrants waiting for right to stay are not eligible for housing or benefits. Most migrants to this country are from the EU and have a legal right to move here just as we have a legal right to move to anywhere within the EU. The vast majority of migrants are legal.

[Loz]

I'd love to see more council owned housing and then get manage it well. No long term leases, just housing allocated on a best-needs basis. I don't give a damn if you've lived there for 20 years and the neighbour is your best friend - council housing should be seen as a benefit allocated to those that need it the most. Be they British, European, Nigerian or whomever.

And I'd like to see the gradual phasing out of HB (in parallel with more council housing). As I've said before, I think HB just distorts the rental market, pushing up rents and therefore meaning more people needing HB, pushing up rents further in an ever increasing spiral.

[DJKillaQueen]

So what do you replace HB with then because revenue will still need to be paid to someone and there will still need to be provision for those with no income?

It's also a bit naive to blame high rents on HB as though cheap mortgages and other factors particular to speculation in housing as a commodity had nothing to do with it.

[Huguenot]

Either way - it's not the foreigners and Africans stealing all the gold is it DJKQ?

Not much use explaining it to Tarot, I fear the lights are on but no-one's home.

[DJKillaQueen]

LOL...very true.

[mockney piers]

Cheap mortgages surely aided rent reduction as there's now an oversupply of rental properties and, post crash, landlords desperate to get them filled as they can't sell them at a hideous loss.

Admittedly this applies more to cities who thought they could tempt more people than they actually managed, than to London. (see Cardiff, Manchester, Newcastle, Liverpool, Glasgow etc etc)

[Loz]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> It's also a bit naive to blame high rents on HB as

> though cheap mortgages and other factors

> particular to speculation in housing as a

> commodity had nothing to do with it.

Sort of true, but there is also a supply/demand situation here - if landlords can charge higher rents because more money swilling around the system, they will. Charging ?400 p/w for a badly maintained flat only works if someone can pay it.

[DJKillaQueen]

On paper yes, but it reality that's not happening. Like I also said before HB is already capped. The other problem is that many rental properties are mortgaged and the landlord can't actually afford to lower rents. This a problem buy-to-let landlords face particularly. On maintenance...the law requires that a property be fit to live in and stipulates just what that means. We still have a year to go before the new HB rules start to kick in though and we'll see then if there is any real impact. I don't expect that in the South east there will be. It will simply create a two tier housing system with an even greater shortage of affordable rents for the low waged and unemployed imo.

[Jeremy]

Why on earth should you be entitled to stay in a council house, just because you've lived there for n years? It doesn't belong to you. It's a public facility, for the benefit of those who need it.

If your circumstances have changed... e.g. earning more money, or people have moved out... your position is unjustifiable.

[Huguenot]

"the landlord can't actually afford to lower rents"

That one. Again.

*Shakes head in disbelief*

If they're higher than the rest of the market, no-one will occupy it so they lose the house. That's how markets work.

You don't rent a house because you feel sorry for the landlord, you rent it because you like it and you have the dispoable income and inclination to pay the price.

[Tarot]

Where are you living Hugh in exotic Singapore, or India, too crowded here was it.

I can understand you getting rattled being part Indian,"sticks and stones" as they say.

D,J.K.Q.

Very informative thank you.

There will be changes coming ,and Southwark council and others will be investigated and it will be all over the news

sheets of the corruption thats gone on.Wait and see.

[*Bob*]

.

[Tarot]

Thanks Bob.

[Huguenot]

Tarot...

[Huguenot]

"I can understand you getting rattled being part Indian"

Eh?

Was that supposed to be an insult? If there was some 'Indian' in me would that mean that I was bad? Or stupid?

[Tarot]

Fine example of the goverment not listeming to the people,

[Tarot]

No just oversensitive.

[Loz]

Tarot Wrote:

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> "I can understand you getting rattled being part

> Indian"

I think he pictures you something like this, Huguenot...

http://4.bp.blogspot.com/-tIjSCJY8Vss/TcFkH-BNZtI/AAAAAAAABHM/HbGoZQQ1TqI/s400/Red%2BIndian.jpg

[Huguenot]

Because I'm always spitting feathers?

It was such a peculiar thing to say, I'm wondering which of his current string of prejudices led him to conclude that I must be part Indian?

[mockney piers]

Maybe he was referring to the motorbike manufacturer. Perhaps after a terrible accident on the route 66 you were pieced together by a mechanic in one stop town. A carburettor for a lung that sort of thing?

[Jeremy]

Tarot Wrote:

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> Where are you living Hugh in exotic Singapore, or India, too crowded here was it.

Singapore is something like 20 times more densely populated than England. So it would be a strange choice, if he was looking for the quiet life.

> I can understand you getting rattled being part Indian

That was my favourite bit...

[ratty]

Frankito Wrote:

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> I have a related question: why do people who don't

> work and never intend to think they have some

> divine right to a lifelong tenancy in a Chelsea

> riverside flat....?

Can you find me the ones that do please? I work with the homeless and their expectations for housing are substantially lower than this.