Vote YES today - take back your nation.

[mockney piers]

Excellent, another visit from the minkies at tory party central done until another election, another smear campaign.

It's unseemly to gloat, see you in a couple of years.

[Brendan]

They really have demonstrated what filth they are with their conduct in this campaign haven?t they? Cheers Mr ?New Politics? Cameron.

[Huguenot]

It's incredible misscarmelite, you simply cannot tell the truth can you?

Check out your quote :

You have the elevated self delusion to claim that the 'Brits are enfeebled and fearful and wonder around like headless turkeys"

You've put it in quotation marks, but it's not actually a quote is it? You made up the 'wonder' and the 'headless' bit didn't you? You didn't even have the grace to spell 'wander' correctly, nor correctly remember the metaphor that headless fowl don't wander, they run.

That's the Tories for you, making stuff up.

As for the 'naive' bit, this is from a girl who can't tell the difference between AV and PR? Idiot.

Interesting that you chose 'carmelite' as your name. It's an order that believe in absolute obedience to authority.

No suprise then that you'd be campaigning against AV, you don't even believe in democracy.

[misscarmelite]

oh dear.................. the political piffle of a LOSER !

[Brendan]

And there you have it folks. Speaks volumes dunnit?

[Huguenot]

You just don't get it do you misscarmelite? This isn't a football match. We're not trying to 'beat' anyone. I don't think pro-AV supporters are 'on my team', I think they're progressive, altruistic, socially minded and informed.

I think it's desperately sad that AV has failed to capture the support of the nation because of the lies, dishonesty and smear tactics of poorly informed people like you.

Calling me a 'loser' says nothing about me, but it does say an awful lot about your paper-thin personality.

[misscarmelite]

Yes its does - obliterated from the political landscape. As for AV the results are not in yet, and by the way I actually voted YES.

Even though the YES will lose i fugured that we need to get a strong LOSS in order to keep it on the table, hopefully when it comes around again the narrow minded political pygmies that ran the last campaign will invest some real time, money and intelligent debate, Eddie bleeding izzard ? a cross dressing comedian based mainly in NYC, funny though he is ? give me a break......

[mockney piers]

Are you even old enough to be a tory party spin intern or is this a sad indictment of the quality produced by today's university education?

[misscarmelite]

Well now the co-alition has whacked up the fees the riff raff should be weeded out, I am sure they will soon be back to a standard you are comfortable with... MP. Strange though I had heard that Tory HQ were spending their time infiltrating blogs to sway the AV vote, apparently the nation is enfeebled and fearfull and seeking direction from an army of anonymous acolites of the bullingdon boys......or maybe they just stayed at home playing croquet in sun comfortable that the opposition lack of political nous would do the bleeding job for them !! I hear James Barber own poll yesterday delivered a strong YES vote so all is not lost............ ???

[Marmora Man]

It's incredible misscarmelite, you simply cannot tell the truth can you?

That's the Tories for you, making stuff up.

I see no evidence in her posts that misscarmelite is a Tory.

Further - as I am a member of the Conservative Party I rather resent the implication that all Tories are liars. I know you've become quite het up over the AV campaign but the "mistruths" and "economical with the truths" have been pretty evenly split between the YES and NO campaigns - and while the NO campaign is supported strongly by many conservatives it does not comprise just conservatives.

You say you are not a football type political supporter - with no consistent voter record. A little objectivity when discussing others might be in order.

[misscarmelite]

Well said that man !

[????]

I didn't vote but think I'm actually glad "No" won looking at the crap on here and similar shite on Facebook.. Screeching abuse always makes me suspicious...sadly it tends to come from so called "progressives"....I find myself increasingly thinking that the"right" have arguments and the "left" just abuse

[mockney piers]

I do hope that's irony considering the calibre of the campaigns, not to mention the derision of miss-afn-carmelite.

[Huguenot]

You're joking right Quids?

Whilst my irritation spills onto the page, Loz has been nothing but courteous. Regardless of my frustration, I've spent pounds of energy to illustrate the benefits of AV in a way that the 'No' voters haven't.

The'No' campaign has essentially been silverfox repeatedly saying 'I'm confused' in order to draw out explanations that he can confuse once more, Marmora Man throwing up straw men to knock them down, and misscarmelite copying and pasting stuff from conservative central office.

There have been no arguments on the right, just spoiling tactics. The 'Yes' proponents on this forum have worked hard to explain the benefits.

I hope you can find a way of mitigating your observation, because I'd like to retain my respect.

[Alan Medic]

As a matter of interest what percentage of the voting population didn't vote? Anyone know?

[Marmora Man]

58% did not vote - turnout across the country was 42%, higher I believe than for recent General Elections.

[Huguenot]

It sometimes feels like that, but as it happens:

2010 65.1%

2005 61.4%

2001 59.4%

1997 71.4%

Tories win on another minority vote, and bullshit to pretend it's valid.

[Marmora Man]

A quick breakdown.

In 1997 Labour won the general election with 43% of the popular vote on a turnout of 71.4% = 30% of the country.

In 2001 Labour won the general election with 40% of the popular vote on a turnout of 59.4% = 23.7% of the country.

In 2005 Labour won the general election with 35% of the popular vote on a turnout of 61.4% = 21.5% of the country.

In 2010 Conservatives polled 36% on a turnout of 65% = 23.5% of the country.

In 2011 "NO to AV" won the referendum with 74% on a turnout of 42% = 31% of the country. This would indicate a greater validity for the NO to AV than for any of the recent four general elections.

[Alan Medic]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> 58% did not vote - turnout across the country was

> 42%, higher I believe than for recent General

> Elections.

So the bottom line is that the majority can't be bothered voting probably because they think (IMO) that one shower is as bad as the other however they are voted in.

[Huguenot]

Yeah, it's bollocks isn't it?

I'm not pro-AV because I'm Labour, I voted Lib Dem at the last election and will vote next time according to the issues at the time.

Bring out compulsory voting - but the Tories won't do that because yoof don't vote the same way as predominantly right wing geriatrics ;-)

Anyway MM, I promise to stop pulling your leg. For a bit.

[Frankito]

Yawn...

[????]

Huge,

I was in my cups a bit but have failed to make up my mind and the screeching desperation of you and many others put me off big timew. I have some cynical observations RE the whole AV campaign and subsequent curfuffal.

Labour voters harranging everyone and blaming some sort of tory plot that scuppered AV/voting reform per se....give me a foooking break. Labour had 13 years to reform the voting system and did absolutely nada...As someone who (Like you Hugo?? You sure???) actiually voted for the only mainstream party to be offering a proper (yes PR) altenative voting system I can do without lectures from Labour voters on it. If you wanted a new politics you shouldn't have voted for that bunch of self interested supposedly progressive deeply small 'c' conseravtive Labour lot a year ago.

AV never made a convincing case at all. There was a larger than expected vote (including large number of Labour supporters) and it trounced it - the people have spoken, and that's not a soundbite, middle, Daily Mail reading England has far mores sense than the Gurdianistas ever credit them with ...but as they have far less than they think, it's not surprising.

Labour won't win an election with Ed Milliband - he looks, acts and sounds like a president of the NUS at best. PM? You're having a girrafe.

Voting reform WILL come back sooner than we think because of the flaws in FPTP.

Love Quids

[Frankito]

Here here!

[Huguenot]

Eh? I voted Lib Dem this time and Labour the time before.

Totally agree re. Labour ignoring voting reform. Snouts in the trough etc. There were Labour MPs in the 'No' camp this time around.

Frankly if you think the case wasn't made for AV on this forum then you simply were refusing to read it. The 'No' corner simply repeated the same lies as always. These were frequently rationally refuted but the 'No' campaign continued to cynically repeat them.

[????]

I'm not a detail man Huge. I'm a big picture person and the increasing desperate tone and, not on here, but out there quality of of the supporters of AV worried me. Wisdom of crowds stuff also makes me 'feel' that the right decision was made by good old middle England

BUT....

....as I've said, this (electoral reform) will be back on the agenda far quicker than most people think and hopefully without a poor compromise (AV)

All that aside, Milliband's not credible PM material and Labour should ditch him (free advice).