Vote YES today - take back your nation.

[misscarmelite]

I am slightly lost , is this about voting reform or stopping the BNP? Not sure that those that those who support the BNP will ever stop anyway. Hope this serious issue is not being used to push through an agenda for voting reform. I am sure the ANL do a great job of confronting the BNP and have done for years.

My concern is who AV will let in, will it just cost us more, and create more jobs for politicians? It will get so complicated people may just get bored and switch off. leaving an ever greater minority with a say over a greater apathetic majority ? |I may just Vote NO until someone actual bothers to invest time in a credible argument to say yes.

[Brendan]

Enough with the bullshit propaganda please. It is a tried and tested system, the question of the BNP was a red herring raise as part of the lie based No campaign. H was merely putting it to bed. Now would you please bugger off and do whatever the cp pays you to do somewhere else.

[Huguenot]

misscarmelite, you've appeared out of the blue today, only to post 5 times anti-AV.

Your fabricated claims about letting in the BNP have been shown to be a lie, your claims about Europe have been a fraud, and now you're making more claims that look like they've been copy and pasted from a handbook on trashing AV.

In short, you're trying to con the people on this forum.

However, you give me the chance to reiterate reasons to vote 'Yes'.

Minority government isn't democracy - the tories are currently running the country with only 35% of the vote. That means that 65% did not want them. Only 1 in 3 politicians actually got their seat with a majority. That's a massive fraud on the electorate.

Be heard - Under AV MPs need to gain the support of 50% or more of the vote, ensuring they listen harder to their constituents, and do more to represent their views.

Expand voter choice - currently fears of 'splitting' the FPTP vote means voters are pressurised into a two party state. AV means that you can consider a larger variety of left or right wing candidates whilst using your preference to ensure that you haven't wasted the vote if your primary candidate doesn't earn enough support.

Vote honestly - AV means that you don't have to 'guess' what other people in your ward are doing with their vote in order to vote tactically. You can choose the candidates you really want to win in order of preference.

Stop party machinations from destroying voter freedom - currently your candidate isn't chosen by you, it's chosen by your party's selection process, effectively leaving you with NO choice. NO choice means no accountability and no democracy.

Limit extremism - because extremist parties don't need a majority under FPTP they know they can sneak into power. That's why the BNP is voting against the alternative vote.

Generate mature politics - when politicians needs to find a compromise to win a majority, they start listening to their voters instead of slinging mud at each other in some sort of pathetic playground stunt.

As you can see none of those reasons is the bullshit continually made up by certain posters and their Tory chums to push a No vote. That gives you a pretty clear idea of their dishonesty.

In short they're lying to you.

Tory politicians use AV for their own elections, if they're telling you to vote No, they're lying to you.

misscarmelite you're a fraudster.

Vote 'Yes' to AV because you refuse to be conned by people like misscarmelite

[DJKillaQueen]

And I think the example I gave above demonstrated exactly why minority parties still won't miraculously get in under AV. Totally with H on this and tbh have heard not a single sensible argument for voting no, beyond obvious motives of self preservation by a certain party.

[maxxi]

I am hiding out in the lounge as Jimmy-the-Snip has his cohorts on my tail:-

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's referendum day.

> Great vibe from people I've met out in East

> Dulwich this morning while delivering Good Morning

> leaflets.

>

> To thE maxxi's of this world[/b] voting NO to AV will

> kill aniy electoral reform for a generation in the

> way we select our MP's. Voting YES will get us a

> better voting system now and will keep the

> possibility of PR alive.

>

> If anyone is at a loose end today plexus do come

> and help get YES voters out to vote.

That's what you get for indulging in debate - I am now an archetype (beams proudly) and will shortly be restyling myself, using the forum equivalency of deed poll, as: "Maxxi, King of the Maxxis of this world", and will be recruiting shortly if only to put up a fight when the liberals come with their version of extraordinary rendition (activists in yellow ties singing "We'll Be The Change").

edited to include information that of course it's a yes from me - only sorry some expected that decision to be made slavishly and without debate - but I guess that's party politics.

[Alan Dale]

I'm voting yes.

[misscarmelite]

Minority government isn't Democracy - the tories are currently running the country with only 35% of the vote. That means that 65% did not want them. Only 1 in 3 politicians actually got their seat with a majority. That's a massive fraud on the electorate.

mmm says it all really.....labour ran the country for 14years but doubt you were happy with that huh? oh well that would mean you think AV will benefit YOUR voting prefence, nothing wrong with that but why dress it up with such angry and offensive comments to others? just say you want your political preference to have more power. You talk about mud slinging then go calling people names ? As for conning people I am not sure what my investment in AV is unless 'out of the blue' means you are suggesting that I am a cameronite?

Why con anyone, all the papers are suggesting that Nick Clegg is a busted flush and local election obliteration is not far behind. Anyway maybe i will vote yes, just to put it on the table for another time, when its properly put to the people.

[trizza]

"No" for me all the way I am afraid.

FPTP is transparent,simple and (generally) produces strong governments and I just can't seem that AV we are being offered would offer any appreciable improvement.

Not to say that I am opposed to voting reform, perhaps along the lines suggested by some commentators (eg. the Economist) of having say having a proportion of MPs elected by full proportional representation and the balance elected by FPTP. I agree with them that this would still probably produce strong accountable governments.

[Moos]

I've voted Yes.

[Townleygreen]

I've voted YES, YES YES YES YES YES YES

[Moos]

But in what order, Townleygreen?

[Townleygreen]

It's just that I'm very keen to show my support for AV, Moos!!

[Guest]

I voted yes. Not completely convinced it's the right reform at the right time, but should be a step forward from FPTP and may lend weight to the argument for PR.

[MrBen]

After some thought I have voted a big fat YES. Deathly quiet down at Darrel Road polling station although they did have some Monster Munch (beef flavour I think).

[mockney piers]

Wee.

[paragon]

I fear that this thread will be in no way representative of the result. I wonder if anyone in ED has the balls to justify their No Vote?

[mockney piers]

Did anyone else find the wording momentarily jarring.

It suddenly occured to me that I hadn't stopped to think what no and yes meant, and I was expecting boxes next to AV and FPTP, as if they were candidates.

Weird.

[Marmora Man]

I voted NO - perhaps the only one on this thread to do so.

Look forward to FPTP being the electoral system for next few elections.

However, as I have said - I can be persuaded that the electoral system requires change - but I am not / was not persuaded that voting for AV would be a positive change for the better. Wider debate of wider options is required.

[Sue]

MrBen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> After some thought I have voted a big fat YES.

> Deathly quiet down at Darrel Road polling station

> although they did have some Monster Munch (beef

> flavour I think).

xxxxxxx

I also voted yes at Darrell Road, and it was deathly quiet when I went this morning, as well :-S

I didn't even see/hear any Monster Munch. Of any flavour.

[LadyDeliah]

Yes, Yes, YeeeeeSSSSSSS!

[????]

They offering AV in Singapore now then Huge?

Didn't vote, just got back, too late, couldn't be arsed plus I think I was leaning to NO just based on the sheer number of people telling me I have to vote YES.

Different toilet same shite I reckon.

[Pearson]

Marmora Man Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I voted NO - perhaps the only one on this thread

> to do so.

>

> Look forward to FPTP being the electoral system

> for next few elections.

>

> However, as I have said - I can be persuaded that

> the electoral system requires change - but I am

> not / was not persuaded that voting for AV would

> be a positive change for the better. Wider debate

> of wider options is required.

____________________________________________________

Well said MM, I also voted NO for similar reasons.

[StraferJack]

Mockney piers

Exactly the same thing happened to me. I almost had to remind myself how to read English

[Huguenot]

Misscarmelite, like so many bullies you are quick to cry foul when the tables are turned.

You made ridiculous allegations of racism in this thread, I don't appreciate being associated with the BNP. I tried to pass this off as a lighthearted misunderstanding, but you persisted with the theme.

You then made blindingly inaccurate statements about AV based on outcomes of PR, once again with a racial slant. Despite being comprehensively corrected you then repeated the allegations!!!

It is clear at that point that you had absolutely no interest in discovering the facts behind AV, instead you were embarking on a campaign of smear and dishonesty.

You have some cheek in complaining you are hard done by.

You're quite incorrect about my enthusiasm for AV based on political affiliations. I don't treat politics like a football supporter, I prefer to make my decisions based on policy and track record. My voting record is not consistent.

On that basis alone, I'm staggered by the degree of dishonesty in the 'no' camp, a dishonesty shared by yourself and a few others on this forum.

It's an insult to the British public of devastating proportions. It was an effective if shameful strategy, as the enfeebled and fearful Brits voted 'no' like turkeys voting for Christmas. Such a lack of national pride is a tragedy in its own right.

I've been a supporter of AV for 22 years, and would have campaigned on its behalf regardless of the incumbent government. You may not have noticed, enmeshed as you are in the intransigence of your flawed opinion, but the Labour old guard were anti-AV.

They, like the Tories, were greedily obsessed with preserving their elevated status, and wanted to keep their noses firmly in the trough.

[misscarmelite]

Not sure where you are going with the BNP thing as it was never my intention to make any association , it was merely the image and slogan of 'take back your nation' which is slightly bonkers , its as if it was designed by someone with a feeble grasp of visual history and a naive grasp of politics.

The bottom line is a absolute NAIVE grasp of politics has been, as predicted, duly demostrated , an election triumph turned into a complete and utter disaster, a woeful YES campaign, way too focused and obssessed with the fairly obvious NO campaign, a deputy prime minister demonstrating his utter failings as a serious politician ; a man obssessed with trying to be the MAN who finished 'Gordon Brown' than actually cementing his own parties future, and a man who at the same time flushed AV/PR in the near future straight down the toilet.

It's your bullying arrogance that is evident in the 'tone' of the majority of your posts, I am amazed that you are not somewhat censored. You have the elevated self delusion to claim that the 'Brits are enfeebled and fearful and wander around like headless turkeys" .... which I presume means that you consider yourself one of the enlightened ? oh well the ballot box often shatters the self delusion of arrogant individuals.

National Pride my bum, its about seeing through the nonsense of 'dodgy back room deals' and saying if you want us to change 'british history' you need to present it somewhat better than the back of a fag packet strategy, and shamefull binning of any political credentials that the party driving this have over the last year demonstrated. "We are british sir!" we expect backbone, not spanish mutton dressed up as Welsh Lamb.

parp parp