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lpool

lpool

Posted
Posted
Hadley has deep pockets and the original investment was not very large. I would expect them to have a medium term plan, knowing that they may not succeed in their objective of developing the existing stadium in the short term. Allowing DHFC to go under in the interim could be a PR disaster so I would be surprised if they simply pulled the plug.
mikeb

mikeb

Posted
Posted
I've asked this before, but can someone detail the profitability / viability of the club excluding rent payments to Hadley? (these rent payments are derived from the value of the land, which is itself determined by whether Hadley can build on it, which seems to be driven in part by whether the club is viable)
tomdhu

tomdhu

Posted
Posted
From my limited knowledge, it appears the club has got into financial difficulties but if these plans go through, the club is going to be even worse off as it looks as though the all the existing club buildings will be knocked down and not be replaced. All they get is a pitch in a different location. Just a pitch - no club house etc. Or have I got it wrong?
Gary P

Gary P

Posted
Posted

tomdhu Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> From my limited knowledge, it appears the club has

> got into financial difficulties but if these plans

> go through, the club is going to be even worse off

> as it looks as though the all the existing club

> buildings will be knocked down and not be

> replaced. All they get is a pitch in a different

> location. Just a pitch - no club house etc. Or

> have I got it wrong?


That's definitely wrong. The plan is for a new stadium that meets Conference National requirements.

Inbetweener

Inbetweener

Posted
Posted

First of all people should look at the plans more clearly...of course there will be a clubhouse, and all the facilities for a modern non-league community club.


The latest plans not only include a new stadium on the current all-weather floodlit footprint on Greendale; it includes two smaller MUGA (Multi Use Games Area) all-weather pitches, on part of the current Dulwich Hamlet Football Ground footprint.


Currently, with the stadium grass pitch, it cannot be used for more than a few hours a week, which is the main matchdays for Dulwich Hamlet & Fisher FC, who groundshare at Champion Hill.


With a modern 4G all-weather pitch, and the MUGA areas, the ground can be in use all day, and in the evenings. Games simply won't get called off, except in extreme bad weather conditions, which means revenue on weekend match days, & there is the potenial for increased income on non-matchdays from pitch & MUGA area lettings. There will be changing rooms for both, so both can used simultaneously...and there is huge scope for community use, like letting schools use the facilities in day time.


In short, the Club is not sustainable where it is currently situated, and a move next door, with a decent lease will safeguard the future of the Club not just for the rest of my life, but for future generations.


And that's without going into the benefits that will be gained from this development, with the suggestion of a public Greendale Park for the adjacent scrubland.


As for the comment about Hadley mobilising Hamlet fans...well if Hamlet fans support the new development they are more than capable of mobilising themselves, thank you very much. If we think it will benefit the future of our Club then we will support it...which is why so many of our fans have seen the plans & have seen what an excellent scheme it is...not just for our Club, but for the wider community that we have been part of since 1893.

milk76

milk76

Posted
Posted

Hadley's proposals are clear.


It is also clear that the money has already been allocated by Southwark Council to upgrade the current all weather pitch for use by Schools and community groups in addition to the local sports clubs currently benefitting from it. We have already paid for this with our council taxes. The whole Greendale rejuvination has also been funded by us already.


Yes Hadley state, probably correctly, that it is hard for the Champion Hill pitch to make a profit in its current grass state, only being useable 4.5 hours a week. THe grass also has intrinsic high maintainance costs and poor reliability. They correctly conclude that a facility can increase income several fold with an artificial surface that can potentially be rented up to 60 hours a week. I for one will be very happy to see them invest in such a new playing surface at Champion Hill Stadium. Surely this must have been their thinking when deciding to invest their capital in a Stadium facility currently not breaking even that is protected in perpetuity as a local leisure and educational property? At a single stroke making it mildly profitable.


But I jest. Hadley are not offering extra improved sporting facilities and a twenty year profit cycle. They are offering to put seats and a clubhouse on our current community facility and somehow to get permission to bulldoze the other covenant protected local facility. But that is ok, they will put a couple of small playgrounds in the middle of the hundred million profit housing estate they will build on it.

The Major

The Major

Posted
Posted
Could you please clarify who actually "owns" the AstroTurf pitch which you state is a community facility. Additionally I am led to believe that those who claim their is a covenant on both Greendales and the current Champion Hill Stadium may be misinformed. Could you provide more information about these covenants, when they were put in place and what exactly they cover. Additionally I am rather unsure of your maths in regards to the profit margins of ?100 million which you quote. Given that Hadley's proposals call for around 200 properties that means each property would produce a profit of ?500,000. Housebuilders tend to operate on on margins of around 10% which puts some of these properties on a par with multistory townhouses in Belgravia as opposed to apartments in East Dulwich. The area may be "up and coming" but...
milk76

milk76

Posted
Posted

The astroturf is owned by the council and the stadium have leased it for the last twenty odd years. But they have not maintained it as they should and it has now fallen into such a state of disrepair that for some time now it has been unavailable to schools on health and safety grounds. As a result the council sort to fund rennovating it themseves when they can take back ownership of it at the end of the lease term which is year end 2014. They have found the money and it is a done deal.


I know nothing about any covenant on greendale. But the contract between King's College School of Medicine, Southwark Council and Sainsburys that granted the Supermarket planning pernission to be built stated that Sainsburys had to provide, maintain and secure St Francis Park and build what is now called Champion Hill Stadium which would be allowed restricted planning as a Sports, leisure or educational facility. Now presumably it could be used as a library or shcool without seeking to change the planning restrictions upon it. But Southwark would have to vote to change it's policy on the premises and I see no clear public interest reason why they would.


I believe Ipool is dead right in his thinking about both the timeframe that Hadley will be looking at and the unlikelyhood that they will try to force the club out and risk leaving a devalued asset and a bad smell around their reputation.

The Major

The Major

Posted
Posted

Have done a little research and I see that the planning covenant is a section 106 one which is not irrevocable and tends to be no more than a way of a local authority getting a bit of "squeeze" out of any developer.

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/info/200152/section_106

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