Foxes

[Sue]

SpringTime Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > Memories of masssive chicken overkill (with

> only

> > one or two chickens taken) and similar lambing

> > situations I witnessed through childhood don't

> > heal well.

>

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> I am always amazed how ignorant Country Folk are

> about Wild Animals.

Surely "Country Folk", as you call them (I presume you mean people who live in the country), know much more about "Wild Animals" than people who live in the cities. They see a lot more of them, and also see the damage they can cause.

As SpringTime says, foxes sometimes kill without eating what they have killed, and it is the farmer and his/her animals who suffer.

That's got nothing to do with "the need to feed itself", as you also say above?

You live in an urban street. Are you seriously suggesting that you know more about foxes and have more experience of them than somebody who was brought up in the country?

[DulwichFox]

Sue, this is your thread and is about the Urban Fox.

SpringTime tried to make it about the Rural Fox.

People (Farmers) in the country see the Fox as a pest..

I see Moths as a pest in my home. Does not mean I know anything about them.

Foxes do kill more animals than they need. Perhaps they intend to go back the next night to retrieve the rest.

Bit like us when we go shopping. We always buy more than we need.

Buy one get one free.

Foxy

[Dbrskh]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> It probably is Foxes but not mating.

>

> Here is a short vid of Fox calls..

>

>

>

> One of them fits your discription

>

> Enjoy

>

> DulwichFox

After watching the video, I must say I?m 150% sure there?s a very confused vixen out there in need of a male companion because what has been waking us up is definitely that first ?vixen?s scream? from the video. Horrible!

[dbboy]

Yes, foxes are beautiful creatures, I totally agree. but aren't they scavengers, much like a dog always looking for the next thing to eat?

What I do not like is them marking and pooing everywhere and being a general nuisance in the garden.

IMO foxes are wild creatures and should be in the countryside, they are not natural town animals. It is us humans who have encouraged them into cities and so they scavenge for food (quite often discarded take away food). That compounded by people feeding them makes them less wary of us humans. They become bolder and make homes on unused land etc. Naturally they breed and so more foxes are about. Don't get me wrong, yes they are beautiful to look at but not in towns, Sorry.

[rendelharris]

SpringTime Wrote:

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> Aside from their faeces stinking up ours and our

> neighbouring gardens I've never really liked them.

> Memories of masssive chicken overkill (with only

> one or two chickens taken) and similar lambing

> situations I witnessed through childhood don't

> heal well. There's not much you can do though -

> killing your local foxes just frees up space for

> others to move in. Howl away Foxy!

It's one of the beloved myths of the hunting lobby that foxes kill "for fun." What they do is kill every bird they can get their jaws if they get into a hen coop, sure, but they do so intending to return and eat or cache the rest. Obviously as soon as farmers find a fox has got in they patch the hole and so this doesn't happen.

It's funny that humans bang on about foxes being cruel or vicious for killing animals for food...what are we raising these poor chickens and lambkins for? Whether it's less cruel for an animal to be killed fairly swiftly by a fox or transported in a packed lorry to stand panicstricken while its fellows are slaughtered in front of it by people who are notorious for their mindless cruelty is questionable.

[snowy]

dbboy Wrote:

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> Yes, foxes are beautiful creatures, I totally

> agree. but aren't they scavengers, much like a dog

> always looking for the next thing to eat?

>

> What I do not like is them marking and pooing

> everywhere and being a general nuisance in the

> garden.

>

> IMO foxes are wild creatures and should be in the

> countryside, they are not natural town animals. It

> is us humans who have encouraged them into cities

> and so they scavenge for food (quite often

> discarded take away food). That compounded by

> people feeding them makes them less wary of us

> humans. They become bolder and make homes on

> unused land etc. Naturally they breed and so more

> foxes are about. Don't get me wrong, yes they are

> beautiful to look at but not in towns, Sorry.

How do you feel about seagulls?

[SpringTime]

They certainly are scavengers but for the most part eat bugs when in the countryside.

I'm not ignorant about them or their welfare, and can distinguish between "fox hunting" and "hunting with dogs" for the record!

Also I didn't try to switch the thread from urban to rural fox. They are the same species after all.

Their dirt is more evident in cities, though their destructive nature is of course better documented in the rural environment.

[rendelharris]

Sorry - I wasn't trying to imply you were pro-hunting with dogs, more a general comment about one of the excuses those who are use.

[Sue]

Autumnwatch tonight apparently "reveals the latest in a fox intelligence test" - from Bournemouth!

[Delainie]

Thank heaven for foxes, they keep the rat population down. I'm fed up with people drunk urinating on the tree outside, I think I'd prefer a fox pee!!

[Lula]

Bloody foxes bit a whole in my kids trampoline net recently ? I've retaliated by putting brambles on the back on the fence where they enter the garden!

[Sue]

Red chilli powder can also work. You can get big bags cheaply from places like Khans.

[DulwichFox]

Red Chilli powder would also endanger other wildlife and pets.

Could seriously damage a cats eyesight for example.

A ridiculous suggestion..

I'm lost for words as to the level of cruelty some people will stoop to.

DulwichFox

[Sue]

It is recommended by organic gardening experts and the RSPB.

Here's just one link:

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/earth/wildlife/3440454/Use-chilli-powder-to-repel-squirrels-householders-told.html

"Lloyd Scott, RSPB wildlife adviser, said: "Using chilli powder to deter squirrels is a cheap, easy and effective solution."

I'm sure you can google other sources of information for yourself, if only to prove the RSPB wildlife adviser wrong .....

[DulwichFox]

Innumerable species of birds independently evolved to eat capsaicin

Thu birds are not affected by Chilli. Mammals are.

Its why the Police use Pepper spray to disable violent people.

DulwichFox

[Sue]

The article and quote above are about deterring squirrels, who are in fact mammals.

It is by a wildlife adviser who happens to work for the RSPB.

And the article clearly says that birds are not affected by the chilli.

ETA: I am not sure what your point is.

[dbboy]

Please do not put anything down that harms any animal or bird

[Sue]

I wouldn't knowingly harm anything (except clothes moths and slugs).

I rescue woodlice I find in the house.

Chilli powder is a deterrent, not a poison. To the best of my knowledge, animals avoid it because of the smell.

Happy to be proved wrong, and if so I will not use it again despite the advice of somebody who as a wildlife adviser you would expect to be an expert.

I do not use it at home, however I have used it at their entrance tunnels at a plot of land where foxes were burrowing and disturbing seeds and plants.

[rendelharris]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> Red Chilli powder would also endanger other

> wildlife and pets.

> Could seriously damage a cats eyesight for

> example.

>

> A ridiculous suggestion..

>

> I'm lost for words as to the level of cruelty

> some people will stoop to.

>

> DulwichFox

You a vegan then Foxy?

[remainpower]

I agree, foxes do not adapt well in towns. It breaks my heart everytime I see a dead fox in the middle of the road.

[BrandNewGuy]

Well, they actually adapt brilliantly in towns. Which doesn't mean life can't be rough for them, but it's easier than life in the countryside.

[Sue]

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>> >

> > I'm lost for words as to the level of cruelty

> > some people will stoop to.

> >

rendelharris Wrote:

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> You a vegan then Foxy?

Good point.

Maybe cruelty only applies to wildlife and pets in Dulwich Fox's eyes, and not to factory farmed/intensively reared animals destined their whole sad lives to be slaughtered for cheap meals such as those in Indian restaurants (or to produce cheap eggs and milk).

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > DulwichFox Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >> >

> > > I'm lost for words as to the level of

> cruelty

> > > some people will stoop to.

> > >

>

> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > You a vegan then Foxy?

>

>

> Good point.

>

> Maybe cruelty only applies to wildlife and pets in

> Dulwich Fox's eyes, and not to factory

> farmed/intensively reared animals destined their

> whole sad lives to be slaughtered for cheap meals

> such as those in Indian restaurants (or to produce

> cheap eggs and milk).

No I am not a Vegan. I was totally veggie for 2-3 years back in the 70's.

I am fully aware of cruelty in factory farming.. I written about it here more time than Sue seems to remember.

It is not possible to source out where every meal I eat out comes from.

We would all starve if we all did that.

I can only assume that Sue NEVER eats out in local Indian restaurants.

BUT No. She eats at Ganapati.

I did not realise that Ganapati sourced all its Chicken and Lamb from Ethical suppliers.

Perhaps Sue could enlighten us all on the matter..

Fox

[Sue]

Dulwich Fox said ....

No I am not a Vegan. I was totally veggie for 2-3 years back in the 70's.

I am fully aware of cruelty in factory farming.. I written about it here more time than Sue seems to remember.

It is not possible to source out where every meal I eat out comes from.

We would all starve if we all did that.

I can only assume that Sue NEVER eats out in local Indian restaurants.

BUT No. She eats at Ganapati.

I did not realise that Ganapati sourced all its Chicken and Lamb from Ethical suppliers.

Perhaps Sue could enlighten us all on the matter..

a) You have not answered the point

b) If you were a vegetarian why did you stop being one if you are concerned about animal welfare?

c) It is possible to eat out and not eat meat if you are concerned about cruelty. Vegetarians and vegans do not starve and have plenty of choice these days eating out, particularly in Indian restaurants. How ridiculous.

d) Your having written about factory farming on here is completely irrelevant, as it does not seem to extend to actually not eating factory farmed animals.

e) I occasionally eat in Indian restaurants, as you know because you have spoken to me in there more than once. I will not eat chicken in them, specifically because of cruelty issues.

f) I do not "eat at Ganapati". I have not eaten at Ganapati for years. However they use free range chicken and I would be extremely surprised if any of their meat was factory farmed, given their ethos.

Is that sufficiently enlightening?

I would have preferred it if you could have responded at similar length to my answer to your post above accusing me of cruelty, however.

[rendelharris]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> > > DulwichFox Wrote:

> > >> >

> > > > I'm lost for words as to the level of

> > cruelty

> > > > some people will stoop to.

> > > >

> >

> > rendelharris Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> >

> > > You a vegan then Foxy?

> >

> >

> > Good point.

> >

> No I am not a Vegan. I was totally veggie for 2-3

> years back in the 70's.

>

> I am fully aware of cruelty in factory farming..

> I written about it here more time than Sue seems

> to remember.

> It is not possible to source out where every meal

> I eat out comes from.

> We would all starve if we all did that.

>

> I can only assume that Sue NEVER eats out in

> local Indian restaurants.

Then don't bang on about how cruel other people are when you're aware of how cruel much farming is but are prepared to buy into it for the sake of a nice meal out. It's perfectly possible to get a delicious vegetarian or vegan meal at virtually every eating place in ED, particularly the Indians (and especially Ganapati). We would not all starve if we eschewed, or only ate ethically produced, meat, don't be so ridiculous. If you're prepared to accept animal suffering and cruelty as the price of enjoying a nice meal out, good luck to you, but don't then hypocritically point the finger at others about being cruel when your lifestyle choices are just as questionable.