Goodrich School in Daily Mail

[LadyLibra]

Have a look at this page:

Link to racist website removed - The Administrator

It is disgustingly scary and personally if I were Mrs. Patterson I'd give Goodrich a wide berth. Maybe Moyles will now see why it was not a good idea, to do what he did with that poster. Somehow he has really tapped into the worst of racists available.

[chantelle]

er, i think the Daily Mail did the tapping.

[james84]

Thaty is a disgusting site, and not representative of society as a whole. You seem to be missing the point though- no one knows what the intentions were of Moyles, you just want to jump to conclusions and make accusations.

At the end of teh day this all seems pretty innocent to most people, and has just been taken the wrong way and blown way out of proportion, hence Southwark council not wuilling to comment any further and the police stating that there was not racial malice intended.

[katie1997]

Mick Mac Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> James Barber Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I've looked at the picture again and it looks

> like

> > a black man with a white beard

>

>

> I'm amazed anyone would say that.

James, you looked at the picture 'again' before reaching that conclusion? I have to ask...was this different from the first time that you looked at it then? I'm incredulous too. Is it a case of people seeing what they want to see?

From an outsider's point of view (ie I have no connection with this school), it appears to me that someone was worried about creationism being taught and anticipating hordes of angry parents (irrespective of their race). However, I can also see that there must be more to this than meets the eye which is why....

Its a great shame that it couldn't have been sorted out between the Head and the school governor(s) in the first instance.

[LadyLibra]

james84 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Thaty is a disgusting site, and not representative

> of society as a whole. You seem to be missing the

> point though- no one knows what the intentions

> were of Moyles, you just want to jump to

> conclusions and make accusations.

>

> At the end of teh day this all seems pretty

> innocent to most people, and has just been taken

> the wrong way and blown way out of proportion,

> hence Southwark council not wuilling to comment

> any further and the police stating that there was

> not racial malice intended.

I cannot speak for Moyles and what he truly intended from his poster and I can understand what you are saying, but tell that to the Head who is going through it. I do not know this woman personally, but I am sure she tried her best with the school. We all know with the best will in the world, sometimes it does not work. From previous posts it is said some of the parents objected to her from the beginning - did they actually work with her? The whole situation is awful and all that was needed, was dialogue - between the Head and governors to sort out parents concerns. London is a place of success and moving forward, so intelligent people should not be acting in this way. If there is any risk of causing offence, this poster should not have been allowed to print - its not rocket science.

[James Barber]

Please, lets be clear Goodrich is not a failing school.

Its SAT results are in the top quartile of value added for the country.

From memory 19% of pupils are entitled to Free School Meals - which used by many as a measure of having pupils who need more support.

This big school clearly has room for improvement and is about to undergo this years SATs. Such bog school don't have butterfly transformations into outstanding schools but I suspect we all wish it could.

I'm clear both parties to this would prefer this episode had never occurred and this thread is not helping resolve the unintended problems and fall-out from a single poster.

If you care for this school and its whole family of kids, parents, teachers, support staff, governors and indeed the head then please be far more reflective on what you post and whether it helps this school succeed.

[LadyLibra]

james84 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This thread should probably stop now. Lady Libra

> you are not going to accept anything else but your

> own point of view, and anyone who argues with your

> point will be labelled. From your last post it is

> obvious that you are picking an argument.

How absurd.

[Dorothy]

My last word (please don't let this thread be deleted) is that I am sure the poster was not intended to represent the KKK surrounding a black victim, but it does depict an individual being surrounded by an angry mob.

The head of Goodrich took this to represent herself (irrespective of colour?) whereas the person who created the poster says it was supposed to represent him. I'd suggest that the symbolism is at least ambivalent, but also rather provocative for a poster inviting parents to attend a primary school parent/governor's forum, and it is hard to see the "joke" intended.

Clearly the police should not have been called and maybe if things hadn't got that far then the governor would perhaps have apologised for causing offence and the whole thing might have blown over.

Its a bit chicken and egg.

[dully]

Not really. (fair enough bunny).

You would not crack jokes about the holocaust to jewish people

You wouldn't think that genocide is a laughing matter

so why is it suddenly ok to attempt satire using lynch mobs when lynch mobs are as horrific to black people as the holocaust to jewish people. The last lynch mob I heard of in this country was in the late '90's. They strung up and burned a black man for dating (respectfully) a white woman. It is not so distant and gone.

The point is that whilst race relations have made enormous steps forward, we are not all the way there yet. A black head teacher is still fairly progressive and in a vulnerable position. It is not appropriate to make jokes about lynch mobs, it show a great lack of awareness for what people have come from and whilst some of the white middle class populace may not understand that it is hard to integrate at a higher level post and lead people when they cannot even understand who and where you are as a person.

I don't think it was paranoid of mrs. Patterson to call the police. I think she knows where she comes from and where she is. Some People in east dulwich can be amazingly racist but think because they haven't used any "n" words and they haven't said whatever directly to a black person that it tows a line. People need educating and integrating - I would have thought a black head teacher was a perfect place to start. Take it as a learning curve - don't get angry and defensive about it. Learn to say "I have acted like a complete moron. I do not want my child to grow up to be a bigot like me so I will open my mind and learn what is fair, true and decent." Good luck.

[Bunny19]

Carefill dully, you and the odd other poster are very close to libel here, as the administrator has already indicated. You could well be causing more problems than you could ever imagine. If I was Mr Moyles and I have no idea whatsoever the intent by his poster, I'd be backing my innocence all the way through the legal system and you could find yourself dragged headfirst into it as well.

[reggie]

Time for a quick musical interlude

OK back to the thread

[tiddles]

thank you reggie - marvellous - a gem

sorry to go off thread admin

[Sue]

I didn't dare post to say the same, but now tiddles has - ditto, brilliant reggie :)

[Reg Smeeton]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's hard to decide who comes out of this the

> worst

I think it's the East Dulwich Forum that comes out of this worst.

[Sue]

The East Dulwich Forum is made up of many individuals. Each of those individuals has his/her own take on things.

How can a forum "come out of this worst"?

[Reg Smeeton]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The East Dulwich Forum is made up of many

> individuals. Each of those individuals has his/her

> own take on things.

>

> How can a forum "come out of this worst"?

...Because there are probably hundreds of 'lurkers' looking at this whole collective thread and shaking their heads.

[LadyLibra]

dully Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Not really. (fair enough bunny).

>

> You would not crack jokes about the holocaust to

> jewish people

> You wouldn't think that genocide is a laughing

> matter

> so why is it suddenly ok to attempt satire using

> lynch mobs when lynch mobs are as horrific to

> black people as the holocaust to jewish people.

> The last lynch mob I heard of in this country was

> in the late '90's. They strung up and burned a

> black man for dating (respectfully) a white woman.

> It is not so distant and gone.

>

> The point is that whilst race relations have made

> enormous steps forward, we are not all the way

> there yet. A black head teacher is still fairly

> progressive and in a vulnerable position. It is

> not appropriate to make jokes about lynch mobs, it

> show a great lack of awareness for what people

> have come from and whilst some of the white middle

> class populace may not understand that it is hard

> to integrate at a higher level post and lead

> people when they cannot even understand who and

> where you are as a person.

>

> I don't think it was paranoid of mrs. Patterson to

> call the police. I think she knows where she comes

> from and where she is. Some People in east dulwich

> can be amazingly racist but think because they

> haven't used any "n" words and they haven't said

> whatever directly to a black person that it tows a

> line. People need educating and integrating - I

> would have thought a black head teacher was a

> perfect place to start. Take it as a learning

> curve - don't get angry and defensive about it.

> Learn to say "I have acted like a complete moron.

> I do not want my child to grow up to be a bigot

> like me so I will open my mind and learn what is

> fair, true and decent." Good luck.

Absolutely well said, but will not be appreciated by most on this thread. There is a total lack of compassion and it seems they are unwilling to change.

[Sue]

Erm - "probably" ??

Not.

ETA: That was in response to the post before last .....

[LadyLibra]

Bunny19 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Carefill dully, you and the odd other poster are

> very close to libel here, as the administrator has

> already indicated. You could well be causing more

> problems than you could ever imagine. If I was Mr

> Moyles and I have no idea whatsoever the intent by

> his poster, I'd be backing my innocence all the

> way through the legal system and you could find

> yourself dragged headfirst into it as well.

What absolute hog wash!!!

[tiddles]

*Bob* Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It's hard to decide who comes out of this the

> worst

I think it's the East Dulwich Forum that comes out of this worst.

(sorry still enjoying my daily mail moment...)

I know the forum is a fab way for people to keep tabs, etc on local issues, but in this case, the forum comes off worst because threads are interpreted indeed mis-interpreted to the nth degree sometimes to the point to it all going off thread. People are rightly passionate about their local schools and what happens in them - lets face it getting into them seems to be a flippin nightmare. And also, there is a sense of outrage when one feels there is something nasty going on - in this case racism. (because we are a bunch of indie/grauniad readers)

I know I have read posts where I have felt I want to stick my fourpence worth in even when I have no personal knowlede of the story ( thank you I don't need reminding - esp after a glass or two) however the old cliche - there are two sides - needs to be stuck to.

I do not have children at the school but I know people I respect from both 'sides' ie not sure about new leadership, blah blah. However, to get to be head of a school you have to be pretty damn good and have a few years of experience under your belt.

Taking over a headship of a good school from a long standing respected head is a tricky path - esp when ofsted changes how they rate things so it suddenly appears to slump. Any changes in approach are not well received - playground walking versus paperwork pushing in office)

I would also add (and this may be wrong but hey, I have had my two glasses) I don;t think race is an issue here! I think it is new versus old. People don't like change!

oh lord, thats it, I'm doing what everyone else is doing and making sweeping judgements based on no proper evidence

reggie, over to you

[Sue]

Thanks tiddles, breath of fresh air and yes, I've had my two (or three) glasses too.

[Tony Rabbit]

There is no smoke without fire. I am most surprised that this topic was not taken up by the press sooner.

There was a very heated debate on this forum previously which amounted to a conflagration that was extinguished and removed by the Administrator.

The minutes of a parents forum held at the school after the publication of the subject poster (attended by more than 80 parents), which raised serious concerns about key issues at the school, were not allowed to be published, neither were the key issues at that debate allowed to be discussed at a later meeting. (Parents who attended the meeting received an e-mail informing them of this).

If they had been so published then maybe it would be realised that there is no racial issue.

The main issues allegedly amounted collectively to concerns of a lack of esteme in the school due to an alleged failure in communication at all levels by and the alleged overbearing attitude to parents by the senior administration.

Interested parents were actively attempting to confront these issues to raise standards and others perception of the school to drive it forward, albeit with much verbal force, into the 21st century.

This poster has only served to divert attention from the alleged main issues and concerns of parents at the school that are challenging the present administration to up their game.

In respect of the poster therefore and matters since then I might take the view that Darwin represents a free thinking parent who is being surrounded, threatened and suppressed.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I am currently watching Shrek with my child (who is obsessed with it). The film starts off with a scene in which an angry mob come looking for Shrek. I don't believe the film is racist, or that the scene has any racist connotations.

Is there a reason to believe that there is racist intent behind the poster at Goodrich? I'm sure that there must be a context to this.

[LadyLibra]

rahrahrah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I am currently watching Shrek with my child (who

> is obsessed with it). The film starts off with a

> scene in which an angry mob come looking for

> Shrek. I don't believe the film is racist, or that

> the scene has any racist connotations.

> Is there a reason to believe that there is racist

> intent behind the poster at Goodrich? I'm sure

> that there must be a context to this.

How can you be so insensitive and compare a 'Shrek' scene to what is happening in Goodrich?

You ought to put yourself in Mrs. Pattersons shoes - just for a moment, imagine the whole sorry scenerio, where your livelihood is being threatened - but you don't have to, do you. Your lack of empathy is obvious.

[Earl Aelfheah]

I am talking about the image of an angry mob, which some have suggested to be inherently offensive to black people. If this is true then it would also hold that Shrek has racist undertones and is also upsetting and damaging to children. Clearly this is nonsense. There must be a wider context to all this to have led Mrs Patterson to believe that racism was behind the poster.