Polluting vehicles

[Sue]

I do read the Guardian online (and the paper version on Saturdays) but I don't remember seeing that particular article. I'll have a look for it, thanks moondancer.

[Sue]

I have just come across a letter from TfL which I imagine everybody round here got, which starts "Dear resident, We are seeking your views on the Mayor's plan to cut dangerous air pollution in your area by expanding the Ultra Low Emission Zone (ULEZ)."

Further information here:

https://tfl.gov.uk/modes/driving/ultra-low-emission-zone?cid=ultra-low-emission-zone

There is an online questionnaire to air (no pun intended) your views, but frankly once I started reading it all my head was spinning (and not from exhaust fumes .....)

[rendelharris]

moondancer Wrote:

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> There was an article on thursday 1st citing

> Brixton Road as having breached the annual legal

> limits by end January.

Which is a disgrace, obviously. However, in previous years Brixton Road has breached this level as early as January 4th, so although there's a long way to go there is cause to think we may be going in the right direction.

[Renata Hamvas]

Southwark will now enforce

http://www.southwark.gov.uk/news/2018/jan/southwark-launches-new-anti-engine-idling-enforcement

Renata

[Nigello]

I wrote to Caroline Pidgeon, GLA member and transport point-person, asking her to ask Mayor K about the powers that traffic wardens and police officers have to stop people idling their engines and about whether they can or should (if they have the powers) fine those who are idling.

It took ages to get a reply, and even then it was not one to Caroline but to another GLA member (Labour, I think) which did not answer my question at all. I still do not know whether traffic wardens and/or police have the power to fine those people who idle their engines but I do know that the Mayor/GLA will continue to work towards...etc. etc. (It also mentioned "education" and that phrase or word that is to do with when you have a set piece "show" to describe best practice, usually in front of lots of officials, local press and press-ganged shool children.)

So, I do not have faith in Mr Mayor because I get the impression that laws to fine exist but that he/his people prefer the carrot to the stick.

If I am wrong, please correct me, but provide evidence.

[Nigello]

PS

I had to walk a fair distance today because the buses I need to take were not running along the route I wanted because of the fun (for some) run in and around east central London. I like walking, so I walked to where I needed to be. As I walked I witnessed four vans/lorries (all associated with the running of the said event) with their engines idling. I asked drivers of all four to switch off, politely but not greasily (because they were in the wrong to idle, not me to ask) and all four switched off. Perhaps the fact they were wearing hi-vis and had firm names and phone numbers on their vehicles informed their decision to switch off.

[Renata Hamvas]

Hi Nigello

Since last week Southwark council parking enforcement officers are issuing ?80 Penalty Charge Notices to parked up car, bus, taxi and HGV drivers, who refuse to switch off their engines when asked.

I'm not sure, however whether other boroughs are doing the same (I'm assuming by east central London you were elsewhere)

Renata

[uncleglen]

could ask Islington how it's all been going.....

http://www.islingtongazette.co.uk/news/crime-court/drivers-who-leave-motor-running-in-islington-will-be-fined-in-first-idling-campaign-in-the-country-1-3707742

Note- this is from 2014

[Nigello]

I am pleased that Southwark is going to enforce the rule, but much more disappointed that it was not the done thing beforehand - because I take it that the law was there all along, not the enforcement.

For the message to get through there has to be consistency, in each and every borough (or, ideally, across the UK). Can you imagine if only certain police forces enforced laws against going through a red light or parking on yellow line? The result would be a lack of respect for the law.

So, unless all boroughs/all of the UK gets with it, people will more likely ignore the law.

[Sue]

Renata, when you say "refuse to switch off their engines when asked", do you mean asked by any member of the public, or asked by a Southwark official of some kind?

[Renata Hamvas]

Council officers

[Sue]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

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> Council officers

So I'm sorry to be thick, but how often is a council officer likely to be around when a driver is parked with his (or her, but it usually seems to be his) engine running?

[malumbu]

Nigello Wrote:

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> Can you imagine if only

> certain police forces enforced laws against going

> through a red light or parking on yellow line? The

> result would be a lack of respect for the law.

> So, unless all boroughs/all of the UK gets with

> it, people will more likely ignore the law.

Actually it is up to police forces on how they enforce laws, local authorities too. As a yoof not living around here driving old cars I'd be stopped several times a year. So now no longer a yoof if I've got a blown light I sort it out because I still expect the bizzies to stop me. Which of course they wont nowadays. That's why I don't park on double yellow lines, zig zags etc. As well as it being wrong of course.

And that is why others do - as they have no fear of being done.

GLA and the London Boroughs are useless in enforcing most road traffic violations relying on ANPR, CCTV and the opposite extreme of zero tolerance that prosecutes honest motorists for the odd mistake rather than the serial abusers. I tell GLA/TfL about this, and traffic management, another failure, from time to time for example in consultations.

Some big ticket stuff - cycling infrastructure, increased bus use, ULEZ are great initiatives. Fail to join it all up though.

If a car or van goes down the street with smoke pouring out - dropped engine ring, wrong oil or fuel, or filter illegally removed then sweet FA will happen.

And dear motorists TfL had an antidling campaign in 2011 - billboard, advertising campaigns etc with turn your engine off you are killing people. Made very little difference as we motorists are an ignorant lot. https://www.google.co.uk/search?q=TfL+anti+idling+campaign+2011&safe=strict&client=firefox-b&dcr=0&source=lnms&tbm=isch&sa=X&ved=0ahUKEwiEnvW52NLZAhUSM8AKHRyPC0gQ_AUICigB&biw=1344&bih=728#imgrc=Q3HW9-c5mwvotM:

[malumbu]

Why isn't all this stuff about pollution, ULEZ etc on the Lounge. Only found this by accident.

[rendelharris]

edhistory Wrote:

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> This is another example of where the Highway Code

> is not an accurate exposition of the law.

>

> The relevant law can be found at Regulations 98

> and 107 of The Road Vehicles (Construction and

> Use) Regulations 1986.

Nope, superseded by The Road Traffic (Vehicle Emissions) (Fixed Penalty) (England) Regulations 2002

12.?(1) An authorised person who has reasonable cause to believe that the driver of a vehicle that is stationary on a road is committing a stationary idling offence may, upon production of evidence of his authorisation, require him to stop the running of the engine of that vehicle.

(2) A person who fails to comply with a requirement under paragraph (1) shall be guilty of an offence and be liable on summary conviction to a fine not exceeding level 3 on the standard scale.

[AnyaJoeli]

Renata Hamvas Wrote:

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> Hi Nigello

> Since last week Southwark council parking

> enforcement officers are issuing ?80 Penalty

> Charge Notices to parked up car, bus, taxi and HGV

> drivers, who refuse to switch off their engines

> when asked.

> I'm not sure, however whether other boroughs are

> doing the same (I'm assuming by east central

> London you were elsewhere)

> Renata

Sue Wrote:

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> Renata, when you say "refuse to switch off their

> engines when asked", do you mean asked by any

> member of the public, or asked by a Southwark

> official of some kind?

I'd be interested in this - since hearing a programme on radio 4 about the difference it makes in air quality in an area where there was a dedicated (and official) small team of volunteers approaching drivers in their cars asking them to switch off their engines I've been even more aware of just how much people sit with the engine running in the roads around where I live (I'm in Peckham rather than east Dulwich)...but whenever I've approached drivers - in a friendly manner and usually with both my small children in tow - I've been verbally abused and quite frankly the toxic feeling it leaves is even more toxic than the car fumes. I'm sick of being shouted at in front of my children it's just so depressing. But I do find it so depressing that it would be SO EASY to make a notable difference in air pollution just by solving this one pointless and annoyingly selfish issue.

I understand that it's human nature to get defensive and pissed off if you feel someone is attacking what you're doing, but it's just spreading the awareness that actually it's creating an actual pollution problem and there is simply no need to have the engine running when you're scrolling on your phone, listening to music, eating a sandwich...

So I was wondering - is there anything we can get from the council, flyers, anything, that we could hand wordlessly to drivers in this situation or to "back up" the verbal approach. Totally friendly and just trying to enforce cleaner air for everyone INCLUDING THE DRIVER OF THE CAR/VAN/ETC.

It makes me depressed on a daily basis, this problem. I have to walk back and forth along Queens Road Peckham with my kids on the school run every day which is bad enough for their lungs, so when people sit churning out needless pollution from the side roads which would otherwise hopefully be slightly less toxic it makes me feel really helpless...

[Sue]

I feel exactly the same, AnyaJoeli.

And I've been met with similar abuse.

[uncleglen]

Maybe NOW things may get done...(although really it is OUR personal responsibility imo)

https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/03/first-death-linked-air-pollution-government-asthma-advisor-finds/

[Sue]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Maybe NOW things may get done...(although really

> it is OUR personal responsibility imo)

> https://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2018/07/03/first-

> death-linked-air-pollution-government-asthma-advis

> or-finds/

How sad for the child and her family, but yes maybe this may push some further action. Fingers crossed.

[moondancer]

parked outside 174 Crystal Palace Road a white/red transit van parked there 10 mins already door open, driver on phone, MJ61 JUC what can I do, it is not possible for me to go out to tackle the driver at the moment.

This is opposite the children nursery

[Sue]

Last Thursday lunchtime (about twenty to one) a Thames Water van was parked outside the primary school in Whateley Road.

The engine was running and the driver was sitting inside apparently either doing paperwork or on his phone.

I was in a hurry but I did get the registration number.

On my way back, I noticed that he had been parked exactly next to a large sign outside the school asking people to consider the children and turn off their engines. I couldn't see this earlier as I was on the other side of the road, and he was parked in front of the sign.

I am wondering what Thames Water's policy is on this, whether they instruct drivers to turn their engines off, and whether I should report him. What do people think?

I am considering making up some flyers to just hand to people or put on their windscreens, so that I don't have to actually talk to them and lay myself open to verbal abuse.

[DulwichFox]

I would of thought the driver had good reason to have his 'engine' running.

Perhaps to run pneumatic drills or to power pumps to pump out flooded holes.

Thames Water now have a fleet of Zero Emission electric vehicles.

One may well look a bit foolish if they start reporting drivers.

DulwichFox

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

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> I would of thought the driver had good reason to

> have his 'engine' running.

> Perhaps to run pneumatic drills or to power pumps

> to pump out flooded holes.

>

> Thames Water now have a fleet of Zero Emission

> electric vehicles.>

>

> One may well look a bit foolish if they start

> reporting drivers.

>

>

Dulwich Fox, this driver was not carrying out any work which required having his engine running.

I am not completely stupid :)) :)) :))

[Sally Eva]

Sue Wrote:

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> Last Thursday lunchtime (about twenty to one) a

> Thames Water van was parked outside the primary

> school in Whateley Road.

>

> The engine was running and the driver was sitting

> inside apparently either doing paperwork or on his

> phone.

>

> I was in a hurry but I did get the registration

> number.

>

> On my way back, I noticed that he had been parked

> exactly next to a large sign outside the school

> asking people to consider the children and turn

> off their engines. I couldn't see this earlier as

> I was on the other side of the road, and he was

> parked in front of the sign.

>

> I am wondering what Thames Water's policy is on

> this, whether they instruct drivers to turn their

> engines off, and whether I should report him. What

> do people think?

>

> I am considering making up some flyers to just

> hand to people or put on their windscreens, so

> that I don't have to actually talk to them and lay

> myself open to verbal abuse.

I would contact TW directly and very mildly and ask them to remind their drivers etc. Give the registration number, date and time so they can identify the driver. His boss can speak to him and get a polite reception. There is no reason to risk personal abuse. Contact the firm and point out the damage to their reputation.

[bels123]

Call Southwark parking enforcement if you don?t feel comfortable speaking to the driver yourself - they send parking officer to request driver switches engine off and if they refuse issue a ?80 fine. I?ve found them very responsive in the past.

020 7708 8587

Moondancer Wrote:

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> parked outside 174 Crystal Palace Road a white/red

> transit van parked there 10 mins already door

> open, driver on phone, MJ61 JUC what can I do, it

> is not possible for me to go out to tackle the

> driver at the moment.

> This is opposite the children nursery