Curse of gentification

[JoeLeg]

To be fair Foxy, although making good points from time to time, does have a track record of complaining about things he has no real understanding of.

I do like the way he thinks older people are somehow paying for younger people's mortgages - oh those uppity youngsters, wanting things like their own home, how awful eh?

[Loz]

Seabag Wrote:

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> However, you must take the downturn on the chin

> FOXTER as you were one of the yes to Brexit

> voters.

Actually, his voting may yet mean the Foxter actually get what he wants. Brexit is causing the economy to tank and prices are rising, so the BoE are considering putting interest rates up. Foxy's in the money.

Though he will have to pay more for everything, but I doubt he's thought that far ahead.

[Penguin68]

Please do remember that 'gentrification' of an area also frequently involves maintenance and repair of underlying good housing stock - there are many areas both in e.g. Brixton and Peckham where sound housing stock has been brought back into use with new roofs and other repairs. The cost of maintaining old stock back to good quality is often far cheaper (and in many views better looking) then tearing down and re-building with current much lower housing space requirements. When you see skips and scaffolding you may think 'gentrification' - I tend to think - another 30-40 years of beneficial use. During which time another social or ethnic change may take place.

And has been pointed out elsewhere, London areas are constantly changing their social and ethnic mix - at times of transition this certainly can make people uneasy (as does all change) - but it really does carry no moral burden. Places and people do change.

[DulwichFox]

Seabag Wrote:

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> Cash in Foxy, buy a small flat somewhere.

>

> Think of all that lovely equity, you must have

> easily about a 3/4 of million quid in that gaff of

> yours.

I had a flat in Dunstans rd which I used to rent out. I owned it for 21 years and lived in it for 16 years

I sold it at that point to avoid Capital Gains tax. also got Taper Relief.

It's a matter of doing things at the right time. Unfortunately in 2008 the interest rates collapsed and I

would of been better off renting the place out.

Win some, Lose some.

Fox.

[Charles Notice]

I think this is the Dulwich Forum at its best.

The opening post was to say goodbye and to bring to peoples attention the closure to a long and valued shop. Closure was due to an unaffordable rent increase. An upgrade of an area does this unfortunately. Hence the title.

Not many posts saying how sad this is for the owners but it does offer the opportunity to go off on a tangent which I suspect the OP never realised would happen but is par for the course for the forum.

I certainly remember how accommodating this shop has been over the years probably to their detriment when you find you do not have enough in your pocket.

Mr Patel, many thanks for the past years and I am very sorry you have to close.

[rendelharris]

Blah Blah Wrote:

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> rendelharris Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> Count

> > your blessings, you had to pay a vast

> proportion

> > of your income in mortgage payments, to buy

> your

> > house now someone on an averageish income would

> > need about three times their income every month

> to

> > afford it

>

> The latest data now shows that average house

> prices are EIGHT times the average salary. Back in

> the early 80's, mortgages were I think restricted

> to 2.5 times salary. DF has nothing whatsoever to

> complain about.

Indeed - I meant that the average person would need three times their salary just to meet the repayments, of course they would never get the mortgage in the first place.

Charles Notice - the title was quite clearly asking for a discussion of this issue, had it been "Goodbye to Mr.Patel" maybe less so. This is a discussion board, people discuss things. Discussions develop and expand. Nobody is stopping anyone expressing their regards or regrets (which may or may not be pointless as nobody knows if Mr.Patel views this - why not drop in and tell him how you feel in person?), why do you moan about others discussing things as they see fit?

[Ghlpc]

yes Charles notice....i also think the OP new exactly what sort of discussion would arise from the wording of their title....lets not be naive about this...!

[spark67]

While I can sympathise with losing a business like this, sometimes they just don't survive as trends change, I have lived here now for 20 years, my partner was born here and so were 4 generations of his family (most of who still live here)

I think gentrification fails when rents rise so much that only corporate chains can afford the rents, at the moment we are lucky as business premises that close tend to be taken up by independent retailers, a lot of by local people or people from other areas in our SE corner, the danger is when they too cannot afford to rent and you have the bland high street clone stores moving in.

10-12 years ago myself and the other half used to trek into town or clapham to spend on eating out etc, as at the time even tho nice The lane was a bit dull, now we stay pretty local all the time, and our money goes to local businesses.

Sometimes you have to adapt to survive, my family are original from stoke Newington, going back to the mid 1800's .. My Grandfather ran a hardware store on the high street right up until he died 9 years ago, for 45 years, he just kept on top on the ever changing community and its needs.

[Seabag]

Charles Notice Wrote:

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> I think this is the Dulwich Forum at its best.

>

> The opening post was to say goodbye and to bring

> to peoples attention the closure to a long and

> valued shop. Closure was due to an unaffordable

> rent increase. An upgrade of an area does this

> unfortunately. Hence the title.

>

> Not many posts saying how sad this is for the

> owners but it does offer the opportunity to go off

> on a tangent which I suspect the OP never realised

> would happen but is par for the course for the

> forum.

>

> I certainly remember how accommodating this shop

> has been over the years probably to their

> detriment when you find you do not have enough in

> your pocket.

>

> Mr Patel, many thanks for the past years and I am

> very sorry you have to close.

Yeah well it's all been said, goodbye Mr Patel and his shop. But I hear an artisan wood-fired launderette is to open on the site.

And the old ladies of the village will be able to bring their laden roasting pans, to cook in the glowing embers over night.

[DulwichFox]

Seabag Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Charles Notice Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I think this is the Dulwich Forum at its best.

> >

> > The opening post was to say goodbye and to

> bring

> > to peoples attention the closure to a long and

> > valued shop. Closure was due to an unaffordable

> > rent increase. An upgrade of an area does this

> > unfortunately. Hence the title.

> >

> > Not many posts saying how sad this is for the

> > owners but it does offer the opportunity to go

> off

> > on a tangent which I suspect the OP never

> realised

> > would happen but is par for the course for the

> > forum.

> >

> > I certainly remember how accommodating this

> shop

> > has been over the years probably to their

> > detriment when you find you do not have enough

> in

> > your pocket.

> >

> > Mr Patel, many thanks for the past years and I

> am

> > very sorry you have to close.

>

> Yeah well it's all been said, goodbye Mr Patel and

> his shop. But I hear an artisan wood-fired

> launderette is to open on the site.

>

> And the old ladies of the village will be able to

> bring their laden roasting pans, to cook in the

> glowing embers over night.

Bad timing... Mayor Sidiq Khan has indicated his plan to BAN all Wood Burners..

Foxy.

[Louisa]

Shops come and go, populations move around, demographics change. No one has ever disputed any of this. But there is nothing wrong with state intervention in market forces when it is for the good of the general populace. We need that in London now, we need to stop the march of chains, especially ones which isolate huge numbers of people. The loss of Iceland was a good example of a landlord seeking a retailer who would pay more rent, e.g. M&S. it's often difficult to underestimate the effect the loss of a long standing business can have on a neighbourhood. You can see the striking demographic changes that have occurred on Lordship Lane since the loss of Iceland. Many of the people who relied on this store no longer use the lane. This in turn leads to many people who've always lived here feeling more isolated, and forced to shop elsewhere. It perpetuates the idea that this area isn't for a certain demographic profile any longer.

I don't think it would hurt for retailers to have some degree of say over remaining in a neighbourhood as a community asset, whether that be a chain like Iceland or a independent shop. Perhaps even with rental subsidies or rules controlling how a commercial landlord is able to remove a long standing retail unit. Many of you on here just don't realise the loss of these stores have on a large number of people. Often people who can't drive, and want to feel part of the community by visiting affordable local shops. Not everyone does online shopping either.

Louisa.

[uncleglen]

I moved to ED from east London 36 years ago. ALL the newsagents and small shops had been taken over by incomers pooling their money (and the local council turned a blind eye to them living 15 to a house as the council could not house them.)

[dbboy]

Iceland vacating LL has made no difference to either what or where I shop, and even with M&S I rarely find the need to use this store.

Of course the change of Iceland to M&S was going to have an impact on who went shopping where. I would not have thought previous Iceland customers were likely to shop in M&S.

[Sue]

dbboy Wrote:

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I

> would not have thought previous Iceland customers

> were likely to shop in M&S.

I loved Iceland, especially for cheese, free range eggs, frozen fish and frozen veg, all good value.

Much to my surprise I also love M&S for its excellent and good value food.

I suspect it's not just me who shopped at Iceland and now shops at M&S, especially as the Co-op unfortunately still seems to be quite badly managed.

[dbboy]

So the change to M&S wasn't so bad in the end?

[Seabag]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Seabag Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Charles Notice Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > I think this is the Dulwich Forum at its

> best.

> > >

> > > The opening post was to say goodbye and to

> > bring

> > > to peoples attention the closure to a long

> and

> > > valued shop. Closure was due to an

> unaffordable

> > > rent increase. An upgrade of an area does

> this

> > > unfortunately. Hence the title.

> > >

> > > Not many posts saying how sad this is for the

> > > owners but it does offer the opportunity to

> go

> > off

> > > on a tangent which I suspect the OP never

> > realised

> > > would happen but is par for the course for

> the

> > > forum.

> > >

> > > I certainly remember how accommodating this

> > shop

> > > has been over the years probably to their

> > > detriment when you find you do not have

> enough

> > in

> > > your pocket.

> > >

> > > Mr Patel, many thanks for the past years and

> I

> > am

> > > very sorry you have to close.

> >

> > Yeah well it's all been said, goodbye Mr Patel

> and

> > his shop. But I hear an artisan wood-fired

> > launderette is to open on the site.

> >

> > And the old ladies of the village will be able

> to

> > bring their laden roasting pans, to cook in the

> > glowing embers over night.

>

> Bad timing... Mayor Sidiq Khan has indicated his

> plan to BAN all Wood Burners..

>

> Foxy.

No, these will be the Gluten Free version wood fire

It's the gluten in wood that's upsetting Mr K

[Broco123]

Louisa - get your sentiment but don't think anyone has addressed the fundamental point - if people aren't shopping there they won't make money! Also not sure why an independent shop run by young people (wood fired launderette) is not good but a run down old shop is a true independent shop. We don't seem to celebrate how ED still has and continues to have lots of independents, even if they are trendy coffee shops.

[dbboy]

ED continues to evolve over time like many high streets, as was said by an earlier poster, businesses come and go, even chains, i.e. Iceland on LL and over the years Sainsbury's, M&S, C&A, Dunn & Co etc in Peckham. Nothing is forever.

[KidKruger]

I'm sure I've read this thread before somewhere.

[Sue]

:)) :)) :))

[Seabag]

KidKruger Wrote:

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> I'm sure I've read this thread before somewhere.

No, this one is original as is the curry thread.

It's lovely to see the regular old harrumpha's indulging in their usual guff on here.

[KidKruger]

Imagine a world (suburban London postcode) where nothing ever changed.

East Dulwich would be the Lacock of South East London, camera crews queing-up to film the next series of Life On Mars or other 1980s-based dramas.

Nothing has changed here for 35 years.

That's why no-one wants to live here.

Because it's dull as feck.

[nxjen]

Little has changed in Dulwich Village for longer than that

[Robert Poste's Child]

In a way the Village is the dire warning on ED's doorstep. Gentrification or not, developments in ED are ultimately decided by the local community - if a business doesn't attract trade, it closes and someone else moves in to take their chance, whereas in the Village it's stage-managed with a rather heavy hand and so it lacks that reality and edge. I rather like the Stepfordness of it, and I've lived there for a decade, but if you want to see what controlled gentrification does, look no further.

[Jules-and-Boo]

I seriously doubt Dulwich village ever went through a gentrification process.