Are Foxtons actually selling houses in ED?

[peterstorm1985]

My street has a mix of houses and flats (and has some modern houses in amongst the Victorian) but Zoopla doesn't seem to recognise that; properties that I know are flats are listed as semi detached/terraced. I did notice that after a rush of flat sales the values for the houses dropped suggesting that that impacted on other street property values regardless of actual type (I suppose it could just have been a coincidence).

Our street has a high proportion of houses that have been in the same ownership for over fifteen years and so the average value, based on historic sales (and recent flat) sales, hugely undervalued many of the properties. Someone before me had obviously asked for estimates on a number of houses but without knowing anything about them internally. I spent an amusing afternoon filling in extra info on some of my neighbours' houses (extensions, period features, wooden floors, correcting flat/house records) and seeing the changes to the Zoopla estimate - this was ?200K for one house.

[*Bob*]

It's a great way to spend an afternoon, peter.

We've amended Zoopla as regards our own place: though I still feel their estimate - for our fourteen bedroom Georgian mansion with folly tower and triple garage - is a little low.

[Shaw74]

I used an online estate agent a couple of years and sold my house within a month. It was advertised on all the main property web sites where all the other estate agents list as well. If you're willing to do a bit of the work yourself ie show people round your house, then you can save thousands.

The one I used had various levels of payment, either all up front or part up front and part on completion. Their fee was a few hundred pounds instead of a few thousand. Great value and great service.

[birdy]

The problem with Foxtons on Lordship Lane is that they use it as their SE London trading post, so while they have a lot of stuff in the window, most of it isn't local, plus they have a real reputation for overpricing. Your best bet is a local agent that know's the area well as they'll have the best idea on the market and what's right or not.

going in with a high price works for some, but it mostly leads to disappointment as it gets your expectatinos up too high and who wouldn't be flattered to hear that their house is worth more than they thought, only for someone to come in with offers a lot lower. Also, if you pay a low commision, expect a low level of service - pay peanuts, get monkeys.

I work up in the West End as an analyst for a surveying firm and I can tell you know that these do-it-yourself automated valuation models are a waste of time. They take the average price for a whole street and generate a price as a result. They make no consideration for the types of property on that road, the condition, rooms etc. No land registry data publicises how many rooms ro what work has been done to a place.

First thing you learn when training to be a surveyor is that valuation is an art, not a science. you just use science to back up your opinion. The answer is there is no right price, just what the market is willing to pay.

[fishneed]

Nikthegreek - How does Zoopla know anything about a property's condition? Zoopla uses various algorithms to work an estimate. It doesn't assume property condition, unless the uses fills in the aditional forms which can help Zoopla adjust its estimated value. It relies on information being told to it.

For example: The house next door but one to mine sold a few years back at a low price. When I used Zoopla it valued mine similarly. It didn't know that house was lived in by an elderly man who died and his son sold to a property developer for a bargain price.

I entered some information and emailed them telling this. They then adjusted my value to something far more realistic.

Best

James

[fishneed]

Shaw 74. That's exactly what my company offers. I'm quite sure that although estate agents without office (online agents) won't take over the industry yet - in 10 or 20 years (who knows) they will be far more influential.

An agent - takes photos, lists on the big portals - takes calls - maybe runs a paper ad or two (*purely branding as these no longer really influence sales too much) - does a few viewings - and charges fees in London of ?10,000 plus.

Once the public eventually see they are being fleeced and the service doesn't warrant that kind of fee. They will realise that there are genuine alternatives that are much better value.

We do all that and more including RICS valuation / Professional photos (by a real photographer) / RICS floor-plans / Rightmove - everything except the viewings - much like you mentioned, for much less than a ?1000.

My opinion is agents are great sales people - they have the public thinking the really earn what they charge . Good property priced correctly sells itself. Any agent saying otherwise is talking b.s!!

[fishneed]

Birdy - Also, if you pay a low commision, expect a low level of service - pay peanuts, get monkeys

That is so old fashioned, and a sweeping statement to make. There is such a thing as value.

I'm not sure that paying the most means getting the best service, either.

Also, if a property is worth what a person is prepare to pay - can you let me know why RICS surveyors 'frequently' upon instruction from a lender produce a lower valuation than the buyer is prepared to pay.

I'm intrigued

Best

James

[birdy]

Ok Fishneed - why do lender's valuations come in lower than offers made? I'm sure a few years ago you may recall a major financial crisis, caused largely by banks exposure to a rapidly rising and over valued property market. The first rule to remeber with the UK property market and housing in particular is that it is cyclical - always was, always will. Unfortunately, we all - not just estate agents & bankers - everyone thought that in 2007 it was different, hence the boom in buy to let and the notion that bricks and mortor was now an investment vehicle rather than just a place to live.

Many of those lenders are stil worried about exposure to the property market - look at the mortgage lending figures from the CML or BBA. Little wonder lendors err on the side of caution with valuations - they don't want to be left holding the ball again if and when the music stops, and let's face it - we are ardly basking in a strong housingmarket with sound economic growth behind us to help support it.

Also, lots of people bought at the peak of the market are selling now - prices are not back on a parr with then but how many of you in that position would be willing to take that hit? Not many I imagine.

And with regards to value, any agent who can't even negotiate a fee isn't demonstrating much negotiating ability to you as the vendor that suggests they can get the best price for you. Similarly, yes there is value to be had in some cases but many won;t provide that. If you as a vendor only want to pay the minimal, there is a fair chance you'll get minimal in return. Not making any assumptions about your service but while some people are happy to go to aldi or lidl, some prefer waitrose.

As you say, a well priced property sells itself but you still need to make sure the right people get in to see that property. A good agent will make sure that is the case as ulitmately they wish to sell it and get the best price for the vendor as this relates to their commision. most of an agents work starts after the sale is agreed up to completion.

[mastershake]

I had the property under offer pretty quickly. However the valuer valued it lower at ?305,000 based on a lack of comparable stock and the fact another 3 bed in the same road and of very similar quality sold in October 2010 at you guessed it, ?305,000. That means the worst offending agent valued at 11% too high. It wouldn't have sold in a million years wither it was Foxtons or Harrods selling!

by all accounts this is true of the house I currently live in - it was on the market for about a year at 100k over what it eventually sold for...

[fishneed]

Birdy

I understand all your points, which are completely valid. My point is this however, that if you are using a mortgage to fund your property purchase, even though the buyer may be prepared to pay an amount for a property, the bank may issue instructions to the surveyor who then disagrees. In this type of scenario - the property is worth for this buyer what the bank's surveyor values the property at. The sellers can disagree and hold on for another banks surveyor. They have the choice.

With regards to your analogy about negotiating a fee, I disagree with this. The valuation manager who agrees with the sellers is not usually the staff member who negotiates with a buyer.

I sold a property a few years back using a (so called reputable agent). I agreed a typical fee. At the point the agent tried to convince me I had a good offer after I had given clear instructions to negotiate a few thousand more, I quite the contract. I got my few thousand more using a different agent. They talked the talk, getting me signing, but when it came to getting me the price, they were utterly hopeless.

I'm glad you didn't make any assertions (or assumptions) about my business as it would be foolish.

With regards to getting the right people in. That's pretty simple stuff really. Quality marketing and pricing the property will create enough leads. The job of the agent is then to question buyers to make sure that only those that fit the sellers requirements are sent.

We are just instructing a property that has been on the market with an ED reputable agent for three months doing exactly the opposite if what you just said.

Their fee was ?10,000. That's proof enough for me that negotiating a high fee with a sales person of a 'reputable' agent is no indication of the service - or lack of it - that you will get one a contract is signed.

We will have to agree to disagree on this. Some businesses trading style means they actually don't have to charge as much - much lower overheads being a key factor

Agents using the 'no sale no fee' method are also effectively charging their clients for the properties they have marketed but haven't managed to sell. You cannot instruct a solicitor without making a small payment on account.

Best

James

[alethea]

I attempted to sell a flat with foxtons when i lived in west london, we did this as we had found a property with them and thought it would be quicker to also sell through them, it was a classic 2 beds garden flat, bargain in hindsight. We had lots of viewings but they were all targeted at the wrong people who were looking for something else. In the end we decided to go with KFH and they sold our property in about a week. During the dual agent selling period foxtons were going to charge us 3% and this was totally non negotiable. Ironically the person that did actually buy our flat was on foxtons books but they had not contacted him with our property. Unless your property is worth a lot sometimes they don't put as much effort into it as it's not a big commission for them.

I wouldn't use them again, infact would consider trying to sell our property ourselves to start, when you get that bill through + VAT it seems a lot of money. Probably not what an estate agent would want to hear.

[fishneed]

Aletha - I understand your feelings with regards to big fees. I once had an enormous fee quote by an agent. I simply couldn't justify the expense. Selling a property is difficult if you attempt yourself as you need to get noticed on Rightmove, as this is where all the traffic is.

However there are agents nowadays that do almost everything a high street agent does, for a fraction of the price.

Some of these agents 'without offices' are experienced agents and adept at negotiating. Some are even fully fledged members of the NAEA - a sign they are pretty compliant and aim to provide a good quality service.

You don't have to use a high street agent and pay a huge fee. That's a choice you make. There are other ways. We're in a pretty technological era now.

[benmorg]

fishneed Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Nikthegreek - How does Zoopla know anything about

> a property's condition? Zoopla uses various

> algorithms to work an estimate. It doesn't assume

> property condition, unless the uses fills in the

> aditional forms which can help Zoopla adjust its

> estimated value. It relies on information being

> told to it.

>

> For example: The house next door but one to mine

> sold a few years back at a low price. When I used

> Zoopla it valued mine similarly. It didn't know

> that house was lived in by an elderly man who died

> and his son sold to a property developer for a

> bargain price.

>

> I entered some information and emailed them

> telling this. They then adjusted my value to

> something far more realistic.

>

> Best

>

> James

Hmm.. must remember to do that the next I sell.

[fishneed]

Benmorg - I think email may have been incorrect. I'm sure there's a contact us option when you refine and update your property details.

I regularly use Zoopla as an aid to help give guide prices for sellers who contact us, and I'd say Zoopla is much more useful than ineffective for conventional properties.

[Dorothy]

Unless you have a really unusual property, its pretty easy to value it diy. Just be honest with yourself.

Best way to sell a property is 1. value it realistically 2. get as many items as you possibly can off the floor (think bins, baskets of toys, bathroom scales, pot plants), just get as much floor visible as possible 3. clean and tidy thoroughly.

[fishneed]

Dorothy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Unless you have a really unusual property, its

> pretty easy to value it diy. Just be honest with

> yourself.

>

> Best way to sell a property is 1. value it

> realistically 2. get as many items as you

> possibly can off the floor (think bins, baskets of

> toys, bathroom scales, pot plants), just get as

> much floor visible as possible 3. clean and tidy

> thoroughly.

Add to that Dorothy, freshen any tired looking walls, cover ANY cracks, even if hairline (and make good) and get grimy carpets cleaned or replace if really old fashioned with something plain and neutral (subject to affordability, obviously).

Get those things and what Dorothy says above (de-cluttering) and already your house is much more appealing to a buyer...

[simonethebeaver]

I'm someone looking to buy a house sometime this year and I've been lurking on Rightmove etc. for a year or so to see what's out there and what it costs. I don't notice which agent it's on with except if it's with Foxtons, and then I assume it's overpriced. The name definitely puts me off, as a buyer. Obviously if the house was perfect, I'd have a look, but there's no way I'd make an asking price offer given their reputation.

[QueenMab]

Nothing I have ever heard about Fuxtons inspires me to want anything to do with them. My experience as a buyer was that I was only once contacted by them with a completely inappropriately priced property which was about ?100k more than I was looking to spend. When the agent insisted, I asked, what, so you think the seller will be prepared to drop the asking price by ?100k? And he said, well, yes. Which made me lose all faith in their credibility as an agent.

I bought my place through Pedder Wates in ED, and they were absolutely marvellous, extremely professional, particularly in the face of utterly twattish vendors. A friend of mine also had a very good experience with Ludlow Thompson a couple of years ago: intelligent, polite and helpful staff and an excellent range of properties.

[chantelle]

like simone, i am a buyer actively avoiding any houses on with Foxtons. I have yet to see one on with them that seemed fairly priced, and i've had bad experiences with them as a renter.

[ClareC]

As someone who would like to leave London in the not so distant future, I would be interested to ask the buyers out there what they think the current "value" of ED properties is?

Particularly interestesd in current "value" of a 4 bed (3 good sized doubles one with ensuite, one single (estate agent double!!))Victorian semi, in catchment area for good schools (Heber and Goodrich)in good decorative order, large eat in kitchen (new) (side return extension done), 2 additional reception rooms, new bathrooms (one bathroom, one shower room and a downstairs cloakroom,loft converted, small garden and 5 min walk to Lordship Lane and Dulwich Park (15 min walk to station).

Any offers welcome ;-)

In all seriousness, Ive looked on right move and similiar houses seem to be priced ridiculously high with KFH and Foxtons, but it's impossible to find sold prices of something similiar given there is not enough information on the sold prices to know if a house is comaparable or not!

[SimonM]

In all seriousness, Ive looked on right move and similiar houses seem to be priced ridiculously high with KFH and Foxtons, but it's impossible to find sold prices of something similiar given there is not enough information on the sold prices to know if a house is comaparable or not!

www.houseprices.co.uk can be quite informative...

[benmorg]

You can look at actual sold prices with with historic rightmove ads (including all photos) on Zoopla. E.g. here are results for Friern Road (click on the orange "H" for historic ads):

http://www.zoopla.co.uk/house-prices/london/friern-road/?q=friern%20road

I would recommend getting an independent surveyor to do a private valuation for you, free from any bias caused by affiliation to estate agents or mortgage companies. This costs about ?140 and will give you an idea of fair market value.

ClareC Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As someone who would like to leave London in the

> not so distant future, I would be interested to

> ask the buyers out there what they think the

> current "value" of ED properties is?

>

> Particularly interestesd in current "value" of a 4

> bed (3 good sized doubles one with ensuite, one

> single (estate agent double!!))Victorian semi, in

> catchment area for good schools (Heber and

> Goodrich)in good decorative order, large eat in

> kitchen (new) (side return extension done), 2

> additional reception rooms, new bathrooms (one

> bathroom, one shower room and a downstairs

> cloakroom,loft converted, small garden and 5 min

> walk to Lordship Lane and Dulwich Park (15 min

> walk to station).

>

> Any offers welcome ;-)

>

> In all seriousness, Ive looked on right move and

> similiar houses seem to be priced ridiculously

> high with KFH and Foxtons, but it's impossible to

> find sold prices of something similiar given there

> is not enough information on the sold prices to

> know if a house is comaparable or not!

[Mgdoble]

I live on Keston road and a a house Foxtons is selling has just gone under offer, but only after correcting for some gross initial over-pricing. The price started off at 620k dropped to 600, and a few weeks ago to 550, so I imagine the final offer must be lower thsn this.

[Mgdoble]

I've just reread MrsPs initial message, Foxtons commission of 2.5% (+vat) is outrageous. A well known and effective looking (judging by the number of sold signs) estate agent on Lordship Lane recently quoted me 1.5% for sole agency and 2% for joint.

[SimonM]

I agree 2.5% is very high, and Foxton's valuations also always look way over the top. To be fair though their web site is terrific. But the proof of the pudding will always be the success rate in achieved sales....