Ignorant Cyclists in the Park

[puzzled]

is djkillaqueen real or, as I have long suspected, just an inflatable dogphobic t**t?

[DaveR]

"So you are going at 12mpr and assume that every cycle that overtakes must be doing 20mpr? What a stupid conclusion based on no evidence whatsoever"

No. I was going at 12 mph, and people overtaking me going a bit faster might have been doing 15 and those going a lot faster perhaps as much as 20 - which is what I said. I have an idea what 20 looks like because when not cycling on a path also occupied by pedestrians, i have been known to struggle up to 20 myself.

So my post was based on my judgment of actual events that I witnessed, and with some evidence. Your comments are shooting from the hip sitting in front of your PC.

There is stupidity on this thread - just not from me.

[DJKillaQueen]

But you are at best guessing Dave. I can do the same everytime I'm going slow and get overtaken. It's no proof of anything beyond a guess (I've cycled in London for around 25 years). But in the days when I did regularly cycle at 20mpr hour very few cyclists ever overtook me....so I too can refer to observed experience.

It may be that cyclists are going at 15 mpr but that is hardly a break neck speed. As with everything, you drive/ ride according the the conditions. Most people do, some people don't.

[hazelnunhead]

I had a cyclist try to warn me he was behind me, i ended up almost turning into him in my confusion over where the voice was coming from! I have probably scarred him from doing this again as I danced and weaved in front of him!

[Townleygreen]

"Two things - I don't understand why (possibly) rude and (possibly) thoughtless cyclists should be branded as ignorant. In what way are they demonstrating lack of knowledge? Care, perhaps.

Second - cyclists if coming up fast behind pedestrians need to make sure that the pedestrian will be holding a steady line - elderly pedestrians (I'm one) can easily veer sideways or stagger - obviously anyone with a child may make sudden sideways movements (or their child might) - as a walker I occcasionally have to do so to avoid unexpected gifts from thoughtless dog-walkers. When I have cycled I tended to slow down when passing people in case they made unexpected movements, as a driver I certainly do when passing cyclists - who again do not always maintain a steady line - for instance when steering round potholes.

A cyclist coming up very fast behind you and apparently not slowing or 'noticing' you, the walker, can leave you genuinely scared that it was only by chance that they avoided an accident, had you by chance (and reasonably) diverted your path at the moment they passed. Cyclists are very quiet, if you are talking, or listening to music, or just slightly deaf they can come as a real and unwelcome surprise as, and when, they spin past you."

Well said, Penguin68, this is an excellent post and - I completely agree with it. Helpful and sober unlike too many of the posts on this topic sadly.

[northlondoner]

What is the difficulty here? The point is that cyclists should give plenty of space to pedestrians. It's common sense and basic manners. And why is it difficult to accept that some cyclists are dangerous and inconsiderate- without veering into some weird tangential discourse about how other things (like cars dogs...or maybe even rhinos) are statistically even more dangerous?

[ultraburner]

Having cycled in many places in the world, I have learnt that in this country people have an irrational fear of being hit or injured by cyclists. The statistics from djkq bear this out. Just pop over to France or Germany and see how the attitude is different.

I would love to see how the op would get on in Amsterdam. Yes, people there do use bells more than we do, but as a pedestrian you have to be much more alert to riders than you would on peckham rye.

The fact is if I go for a stroll in the park, I am far more likely to be injured by a dog than I am by a cyclist. Am I bleating for all dogs to be muzzled to protect me from this threat? Because that is how the op comes across to me.

Get a grip, I say.

[mazza7103]

i have a bell on my bike and i often worry that that will startle and cause someone to jump out of the way. yes cyclists are defensive cause lets face it they dont get any support. i have had more near misses as a cyclist than as a motorist. people dont look for us or give any consideration to our space on the road.

and to the person who things most dog owners keep their dogs under control has clearly been living in dulwich too long. most dog owners dont pick up after their dog and certainly dont keep them on a lead in a public place as per law.

[johnrennie]

And I'd back up what somebody said, oh so long ago at the start of this thread. As a cyclist, you feel uncomfortable sometimes ringing at someone - as THAT can startle them and it does feel a little like 'get out of my way'. You try to do the gentle ring, but it's quite hard to work nuance into the peal of a cycle bell. I've tried that and had people yelling abuse in return ... often people who have walked into the road in front of me. One of the problems is the assumption that cyclists are not pedestrians and drivers also. Most of us are all of those things, and possibly dog owners too. It's not about cyclists or pedestrians or drivers, it's about everyone accepting they have to work round everyone else in the friendliest way possible - isn't always easy.

[binary_star]

I posted this on another thread, but it's even more appropriate here so it's going up again (peronal favourites are the supermarket aisle and escalator):

As an aside, it's clear to me that the EDF has it's very own version of Godwin's law:

As a discussion about cyclists grows longer, the probability of mentioning red light jumping, lycra wearing or pavement cycling approaches 1

Not sure what to call this law, but I've yet to find a thread about cycling on here that doesn't obey it!

[bonniebird]

In my experince for what its worth, some of the cyclists over PRP will say excuse me or make some sort of noise to let me know they are coming, others rush up sooooo fast it scares the bejesus out of me. I always say thank you when they let me know they are coming and I always make my dog wait when I see them. Some people say thank you, some don't :)

[DJKillaQueen]

That's hilarious Binary....I can think of many places I could use that little trick to get through the crowds.

[henryb]

Sounds like you were startled because you weren't expected it - a simple solution would be to start expecting that cyclists will cycle past you and that they won't hit you - which they wont. Cyclists are very motivated to not to hit pedestrians because it hurts if you fall off a bike.

[boosboss]

Both pedestrians and dogs have right of way over cyclists in Peckham Rye Park! There are no shared paths due to the fact that cycling is not allowed in the park under local byelaws. The council in it's wisdom and realising they were unable to police the bylaw effectively, simply amended the sinage within the park to 'please cycle responsibly'. The bylaw has never been changed. So if you do cycle in Peckham Rye don't think it's your right, it's not! And if you're coming up behind a pedestrian, whether they have a dog or not, or are picking up poo or not, just wind your neck in and slow the heck down!:))

[Moos]

henryb Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sounds like you were startled because you weren't

> expected it - a simple solution would be to start

> expecting that cyclists will cycle past you and

> that they won't hit you - which they wont.

> Cyclists are very motivated to not to hit

> pedestrians because it hurts if you fall off a

> bike.

Doesn't really make for much of a relaxing stroll in the park, though.

[ultraburner]

Well I frequently take relaxing strolls in the park and have done for years, so maybe the difference is I dont have an irrational fear of bikes, and that I appreciate the space is for others to share and not just mine.

I can understand there is a minority that will always spoil it, and ride too fast etc, but in all my years of using the park, I have not experienced these bike terrorists. In Dulwich park you've got those three wheeled things that kids will zip about on, weaving in and out of pedestrians; many times I've had to stop in my tracks because he/she is getting too close/is slightly out of control but I just smile and let them pass, and everythings fine:)

[ianr]

boosboss wrote:

> The council in it's wisdom and realising they were unable to police the bylaw effectively, simply amended the sinage within the park to

> 'please cycle responsibly'. The bylaw has never been changed. So if you do cycle in Peckham Rye don't think it's your right, it's not!"

I can't imagine many courts convicting once given evidence of the existence of an official "Please cycle responsibly" sign in a relevant place.

In any case, if you look at Southwark's "Byelaws for pleasure grounds, public walks and open spaces", approved 21 November 2008 and available here, there's no sign of any prohibition of cycling in Peckham Rye Park or Common.

[boosboss]

Thanks for that Ianr, my knowledge is obviously woefully out of date. Saying that though, the footpaths within PRP are not designated as shared paths either. :))

[robotcat]

So this thread isn't about all those people using the hired 3 wheel things in dulwich park? Almost lost my ankles to those several times....

With regards to PR Park - TFL advise via their cycle journey planner if going from Dulwich to the east side of Peckham or Nunhead to cycle across the park rather than use the road.

[kford]

The main path in Peckham Rye Park is also part of the London Cycle Network and is signposted as such, but a bit of courtesy never goes amiss. When I'm riding my nipper to nursery, I always keep left and slow down when passing other path users. Simple stuff really. And I've got a bell.

[Shaggy]

I've an idea. Why not get cyclists to wear bells around their necks, like cats, that jingle-jangle as they pedal? That way pedestrians won't be startled by them, and cyclists won't have to rudely ring their bells at people to get them to move out of the way.

[peterstorm1985]

Good idea Shaggy - it's only the same principle as adding engine noises to electric cars after all

[intexasatthe moment]

Lolly sticks in the spokes ?

[Manda]

I haven't really had a problem with cyclists in the park, they all seem pretty aware that there are people on foot and more importantly children running around. Maybe if you are out very early when they're going to work they're faster as they're in a hurry. If you don't hear them and they suddenly whizz past, it does frighten you, as you could have changed direction at the last minute and they would have been powerless to avoid you.

Just ring the bell, I really don't mind.

I think cyclists in London tend to be aggressive, mainly because road users in London are aggressive, it's about survival but in a park they should slow down. I got knocked down by a cyclist last year when he jumped a light and he cycled off without saying a word, despite almost coming off himself. It winded me and I couldn't get up for several minutes. It's made me view them as a danger and they really don't like to hear that they are dangerous. I think they are battling through traffic all day and just see pedestrians as another thing to battle. In the pecking order, pedestrians are at the bottom of the pile.

Not all are like this, but it's definitely noticeable. I sympathise with the lady.

[Loz]

Shaggy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've an idea. Why not get cyclists to wear bells

> around their necks, like cats, that jingle-jangle

> as they pedal? That way pedestrians won't be

> startled by them, and cyclists won't have to

> rudely ring their bells at people to get them to

> move out of the way.

Even better... Swiss cowbells!!!