Ignorant Cyclists in the Park

[Pearson]

Ridgley, I and most cyclist on this here forum would empathise with you,

It is not acceptable behaviour.

But why can't you accept that there are bad drivers, cyclist and pedestrian...

Instead of singling out cyclists?

[sarnge]

actually i do pick up my dog mess and so do most people you still havent answered my question what was the bicycle bell invented for ?

[sarnge]

thankyou northlondoner at last someone that can see my point

[Horsebox]

This is going exactly the same way as last weeks thread on cyclists.

And every other thread on cyclists.

Awesome.

[Pearson]

Sarnges you haven't answered my question to you:

'i too would be interested to know what Sarnges view are on this.

Ringing a bell on a shared public foot/cycle path would be considered rude

by some folks standards (in a 'get out of my way' kind of way)

yet the OP deems it rude if we don't ring our bells.

I would be most grateful for some clarification Sarnge.'

[Pearson]

Horsebox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> This is going exactly the same way as last weeks

> thread on cyclists.

>

> And every other thread on cyclists.

>

> Awesome.

_______________________________________________

True...

[DJKillaQueen]

I agree Pearson. Uisng a bell on a shared right of way is rude. But the OP was clearly not in the way of the cyclist, just startled as he/she rode by! So in other words, cyclists should ring a bell everytime they pass someone....just in case the pedestrain is startled????? Makes no sense.

[Pearson]

Ridiculous and tedious this whole cyclist bashing rubbish.

Silly this, but: when i walk down Oxford Street,

pedestrians literally bash into me.

Should they wear a bell?? NO they shouldn't

Just live and let live, deal with it, move on.

[sarnge]

These experiences i've had with cyclists have been on very narrow, bobbly footpaths in the park that are dangerous enough as it is without someone speeding past. Also, there are no advertisements of a cycle path nearby, but a larger path outside the park parallel with this woodland path probably more suitable and safe. Of course, i would welcome cycle paths attached to the footpaths and clearly advertised as one but many areas just do not seem big enough. Young children would also be an important issue.

About the bike bells. It brings me back to the point of what were they made for then? To force people to think they may be rude towards pedestrians? To randomly piss someone off for the day? I am sure most people would welcome the sound of a bike bell so they can move or remain out of the way of danger. So i think you're being a little critical there. You're also saying everyone is the same by suggesting they will all be offended by the sound. Would you feel offended if you got knocked over and seriously hurt? I think these people who would be upset and offended would instead appreciate the awareness and would have complete respect for the cyclist IF they just show a little courtesy. That was simply my only problem. It's a bike bell! It is supposed to alarm others!

[DJKillaQueen]

It is a PARK...and therefore a SHARED space. No-one one person, cycle or animal has right of way over anyone else. I think you are completely over reacting to something that wasn't even a near miss! You've gone from complaining about being startled to 'what if' scenarios in one leap.

[sarnge]

Then there should not be a problem with a little politeness. I would say bringing animals into this discussion is overreacting. Especially the 'numbers' part informing us all of certain differences between dogs and cyclists. Completely irrelevant. Defensive and changing the subject. It seems you have a problem with politeness and consideration? I guess that is why you're getting a little angry. Now that is overreacting.

[Pearson]

The OP might like to know that i shall be rining my bell and doffing my cap as a join

some 400 fellow cyclist on this weekends famous London Tweed Run,

where impeccable grooming and manners are a must.

I trust i have the OPs approval?

(sorry to dissapoint, but not flouro lycra louts permitted)

http://www.hypebeast.com/image/2011/02/the-tweed-run-london-2011.jpg

http://www.davidrager.org/blog/images/tweedrun20106.jpg

[Penguin68]

Two things - I don't understand why (possibly) rude and (possibly) thoughtless cyclists should be branded as ignorant. In what way are they demonstrating lack of knowledge? Care, perhaps.

Second - cyclists if coming up fast behind pedestrians need to make sure that the pedestrian will be holding a steady line - elderly pedestrians (I'm one) can easily veer sideways or stagger - obviously anyone with a child may make sudden sideways movements (or their child might) - as a walker I occcasionally have to do so to avoid unexpected gifts from thoughtless dog-walkers. When I have cycled I tended to slow down when passing people in case they made unexpected movements, as a driver I certainly do when passing cyclists - who again do not always maintain a steady line - for instance when steering round potholes.

A cyclist coming up very fast behind you and apparently not slowing or 'noticing' you, the walker, can leave you genuinely scared that it was only by chance that they avoided an accident, had you by chance (and reasonably) diverted your path at the moment they passed. Cyclists are very quiet, if you are talking, or listening to music, or just slightly deaf they can come as a real and unwelcome surprise as, and when, they spin past you.

[Ridgley]

Pearson wrote

---------------------------------------------

Ridgley, I and most cyclist on this here forum would empathise with you,

It is not acceptable behaviour.

But why can't you accept that there are bad drivers, cyclist and pedestrian...

Instead of singling out cyclists?

I not saying there is not bad drivers, but this thread is about cyclist if we were talking about drivers I have plenty to say about that too.

[sarnge]

Maybe you should not type so fast. And of course my dear, you have my approval. I trust my earlier views were to your satisfaction? I do hope now that your slight confusion with this simple topic has found some clarification. Will i now see gratitude or sarcasm? The latter i am sure. You're a cyclist.

[DaveR]

It is unfortunate that threads on cyclists get so polarised - not much help to anybody

On this issue I have a lot of sympathy with sarnges. In my experience the majority of cyclists treat park paths and shared areas generally as if they were cycle paths, and ride too fast. I use the Surrey Canal Path daily on my commute and see lots of people riding at 15 - 20 mph - too fast and inherently risky for pedestrians who have priority.

Re using a bell, what's the worst that can happen? You ring and someone doesn't like it, but they know you're coming and you don't hit them. And speed is still relevant - if you're going so fast that you wouldn't be able to stop, ringing your bell does mean 'get out of my way'

[Guest]

Like Bawdy-Nan, I ring my bell and generally smile and say thank you when the person turns round so they've got no cause to think I'm being aggressive. Surely any reasonable person would also agree that you should respect the fact it's a park and use a speed that doesn't scare the cr*p out of people (inconsiderate cyclists annoy and endanger other cyclists too) and allows you to stop in time when someone lurches into your path.

That said, we're not yet bike-aware in this country. In the Netherlands everyone grows up cycling and using a bike bell is seen as non-aggressive - it's just information to tell you a bike is there and locals step out of the way. In the same way, they don't confused bike lanes and pavements. One way to spot a tourist in Amsterdam is to ring your bell and watch who freezes and shuts their eyes.

[DJKillaQueen]

It seems you have a problem with politeness and consideration? I guess that is why you're getting a little angry. Now that is overreacting.

What on earth are you talking about? LOL....I really couldn't care less either way. That's my point.

See Dave...most cyclists never get up to speeds of 20mpr......that's a complete myth. There was a discussion in another thread about this where I and Binary drew some stats and comparative speeds to that of professional cyclists. Pedestrians are notoriously bad at 'guessing' speed.

[DJKillaQueen]

That is a good point Ms B. A lot of pedestrians just freeze when they hear a bell.

[Ridgley]

I have frozen only because, when you hear the bell ring I am trying to decide which way to get out of the way as they sometimes ring the bell seconds after passing you. There are considerate cyclist will ring the bell at little distance to give you time to move out of the way

[Guest]

True. You probably don't need to get out of the way (though I confess that would be really nice sometimes). I'll settle for just allowing me to avoid you!

[DaveR]

"See Dave...most cyclists never get up to speeds of 20mpr......that's a complete myth. There was a discussion in another thread about this where I and Binary drew some stats and comparative speeds to that of professional cyclists. Pedestrians are notoriously bad at 'guessing' speed."

My speed estimate (15 - 20mph) was based on me being a cyclist, with one of these:

cycle computer

showing 12mph and being passed by other cyclists going quite a bit faster

I reckon that makes me better able to estimate their speed than you, DJKQ.

See here for a sensible take on the issue:

don't fall into the canal

[DJKillaQueen]

So you are going at 12mpr and assume that every cycle that overtakes must be doing 20mpr? What a stupid conclusion based on no evidence whatsoever. I too used a speedo for years when I was younger and doing a lot of training (being a competitive sportsperson). My average speed was 25mpr (on a flat) and I was super fit on a very lightweight racer. Most cylists are nowhere near that level of fitness or speed.

[peterstorm1985]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> That is a good point Ms B. A lot of pedestrians

> just freeze when they hear a bell.

I'm one of those who freezes when they hear a bell behind me, simply because I have directional deafness; I cannot tell if the sound is coming from left or right so I dare not turn round in case I turn the wrong way, straight into the path of the bicycle.

I always understood that bicycle bells took the same place as a car horn, to be used when someone steps off the kerb when not looking (a regular event on Rye Lane) but otherwise to stay silent. If I cycle in the park and find my way blocked by pedestrians, I slow to their speed and simply ask if I may go through. The human voice has the ability to say 'please', bells don't.

[Pearson]

^ very true