K&W vs Hisar - my verdict

[KrackersMaracas]

I agree with you Fox - we can never be sure and in an environment where restaurants are pushed to cuts costs in order to trim margins, it's quite likely that if it isn't listed as free range/organic, what you are buying won't be.

But I think that is different to a restaurant charging a higher price for free range but then not providing that. I believe that the chicken in Hisar will be free range because they advertise it as such. Raising an animal free range genuinely does give a better standard of living- it costs more to provide better welfare standards, and this manifests in a higher price for meat. It also means that produce raised in this manner has higher protein and lower levels of fat (meat) and in eggs, lower levels of cholesterol.

[Louisa]

Allow me to interrupt here.

Free range is, and has been, a con for years now. If you had real concern about animal welfare, you'd not eat animals at all. It might make you feel better about yourself for eating a animal which lives a better-ish (dubious) life, but ultimately unless you decide to go animal product free you are as bad as the next person.

As expected on this forum, the high and mighty like to proclaim that by spending a fortune on food they're doing something amazing for the environment and the community around them. It's all a load of old BS. Spending, nay, wasting money on things that make YOU feel good about yourself, in some imagined bubble isn't helping anyone, not least the animals still being slaughtered so YOU can eat a bit of chicken.

Louisa.

[rendelharris]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BUT. big BUT I do not get all High and Mighty

> about only eating FREE Range produce when it is

> clear we are ALL

> being conned by the term Free Range and what it

> actually.

>

> If we eat out, NONE of us can be sure what we are

> eating.

Not ALL of us Foxy, some us don't eat meat!

[KrackersMaracas]

Louisa - I don't think that's necessarily true! For example - dulwich fox has posted for years about his love for animals, including how they care for local wildlife and also (if I remember correctly) how they avoid certain animal products like foie gras because it is cruel. I don't perceive that any decision to eat enriched cage chicken is down to a disregard of animal welfare, just not really believing that free range is that much better.

I think it is better - better for the animal but also better for you! I'm not pretending I am spending/wasting money to make myself feel better. I pay more per kilo but consume less overall.

[DulwichFox]

As I understand it, caged Birds (Hens) are used in producing Eggs not as 'meat'

Foxy

[rendelharris]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> As I understand it, caged Birds (Hens) are used in

> producing Eggs not as 'meat'

Not at all, broiler chickens are frequently raised in cages, also there are dozens of UK "intensive" poultry farms where over a million birds (on each farm) are crammed into warehouses. Slaughtered battery hens are often sold for stock, soup and other processed applications, so even if you've gone out of your way to ensure your chicken was free range organic, are you as sure about your stock cube?

Anyway, I don't eat eggs either.

[Loz]

I saw whole chickens on sale in a big-name supermarket the other day for ?2.80 each. Normal price, not on sale.

That's just not economically sustainable.

[KidKruger]

guess which ones go into the fried chicken shops.

where some concerned with animal welfare eat.

Conundrumsville, TN.

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

--------------------------------------------

>

> If we eat out, NONE of us can be sure what we are

> eating.

>

If we eat out and don't specifically check what we are eating before we order it, that's true.

Which is why I don't eat anything containing chicken when I'm eating out, unless it is clearly free range.

As regards being high and mighty and all the other stuff above - yawn. Usual twisting of what has actually been said.

[robbin]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'm as guilty as the next man by eating chicken

> and meat that may not of been reared in perfect

> conditions.

>

> BUT. big BUT I do not get all High and Mighty

> about only eating FREE Range produce when it is

> clear we are ALL

> being conned by the term Free Range and what it

> actually.

>

> If we eat out, NONE of us can be sure what we are

> eating.

>

> Foxy

You can't be conned by the term free range if (like me) you don't eat meat or factory farmed animal products such as eggs. If you choose to eat killed animals then I suppose you have to make a judgment call on what is truly free range (if that's your preference). Given your distinct and oft repeated preference for very cheap meat dishes, it is clear that you are not concerned about the farming practices that facilitate such cheap meat.

I'm not judging you - it's your personal choice which you are entitled to make, but suggesting people are fools for getting conned by free range produce (while claiming to be concerned about animal welfare) might to some people seem a bit bold in the circumstances.

[DulwichFox]

robbin Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > I'm as guilty as the next man by eating chicken

> > and meat that may not of been reared in perfect

> > conditions.

> >

> > BUT. big BUT I do not get all High and Mighty

> > about only eating FREE Range produce when it is

> > clear we are ALL

> > being conned by the term Free Range and what

> it

> > actually.

> >

> > If we eat out, NONE of us can be sure what we

> are

> > eating.

> >

> > Foxy

>

> You can't be conned by the term free range if

> (like me) you don't eat meat or factory farmed

> animal products such as eggs. If you choose to

> eat killed animals then I suppose you have to make

> a judgment call on what is truly free range (if

> that's your preference).

Given your distinct and oft repeated preference for very cheap meat dishes, it is clear that you are not concerned

about the farming practices that facilitate such

cheap meat.

> I'm not judging you - it's your personal choice

> which you are entitled to make, but suggesting

> people are fools for getting conned by free range

> produce (while claiming to be concerned about

> animal welfare) might to some people seem a bit

> bold in the circumstances.

I Have No such Preference for Cheap meat. I eat very small amounts of meat.

I tend to eat Prawn or King Prawn dishes in 'Indian' restaurants. Yes Chicken too.

and Very rarely Lamb.

I have only made reference to what I consider to be over pricing in some outlets.

As for it 'being clear' I am not concerned about the farming practices that facilitate such cheap meat.

I think it is your mind that is clouded.

I was once Vegetarian in the past for about 3 years and kept a strict veggie diet during that period.

So you really have no idea the lengths I go to, to ensure animal welfare.

DulwichFox

[Sue]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> I think it is your mind that is clouded.

>

> I was once Vegetarian in the past for about 3

> years and kept a strict veggie diet during that

> period.

> So you really have no idea the lengths I go to, to

> ensure animal welfare.

>

What has your having been vegetarian in the past got to do with your preference for cheap takeaway chicken without enquiring as to its source now?

And what lengths do you go to exactly "to ensure animal welfare"?

We really can have no idea of these lengths, since you haven't told us. It's clear you aren't a vegetarian now, let alone a vegan, for example.

[DulwichFox]

Sue Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> DulwichFox Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> >

> > I think it is your mind that is clouded.

> >

> > I was once Vegetarian in the past for about 3

> > years and kept a strict veggie diet during that

> > period.

> > So you really have no idea the lengths I go to,

> to

> > ensure animal welfare.

> >

>

>

> What has your having been vegetarian in the past

> got to do with your preference for cheap takeaway

> chicken without enquiring as to its source now?

>

> And what lengths do you go to exactly "to ensure

> animal welfare"?

>

> We really can have no idea of these lengths, since

> you haven't told us. It's clear you aren't a

> vegetarian now, let alone a vegan, for example.

My concern for animal welfare does not stop with the food I eat.

I am concerned for the Welfare of all animals on this planet. Land and Sea.

But no one can be expected to obtain a historic record of the animals they eat every time they have a meal.

and once again I do not have Preferences for cheap chicken and meat.

I do not go on about any work I do for the many Charities I support and the donations I make and the monies I collect. I just get on with it. But while we are on the Subject I will out tonight selling Raffle tickets in The EDT

in aid of the RNIB as I have done for the last 12 years..

DulwichFox

[Sue]

We're not "on the subject" of charities, that's a completely separate issue (which you yourself raised :)) ).

I'm sure many posters on here donate to and do other work for a variety of charities.

Never mind, I'm losing the will to live :))

[Louisa]

I love how such a simple topic is clouded in all sorts of mysticism.

IF you genuinely love and care for animals and their welfare, you would choose NEVER to eat any meat or dairy products

at all ever, that's how simple this topic is. If you continue to eat animal based products, hold your hands up and admit "I am as bad as the next person". Don't try coming out with all sorts of bizarre self-validation points about free range produce and how by spending a bit more on eggs you're somehow doing the chicken a favour. You're still supporting the wider industry which allows animals to be used for food consumption. Nothing wrong with that of course, just admit it rather than trying to polish a turd of an argument.

I have more respect for the vegans and vegetarians on here who choose not to eat any meat products. All this grand standing about where and how animal products are farmed and created is tiresome.

Louisa.

[Sue]

It is perfectly possible to care a lot for animals and still eat meat.

The animals on the organic farm where I lived had happy, natural and cared for lives which they wouldn't otherwise have had.

All animals die in due course, including us.

ETA: But the point under discussion was not to do with eating meat per se, was it?

[Loz]

I can honestly say I love animals. Especially with chips.

[Seabag]

I only eat ugly animals & fish

I let children and old people keep the pretty/delicious ones as pets.

[robbin]

DulwichFox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> ...and once again I do not have Preferences for cheap

> chicken and meat.

>

>Oh? From an earlier posting...

Tandoori Mixed Grill.

Tandoori Chicken..Lamb Chops.. Chicken Tikka.. Lamb Tikka.. King Prawn.. & Sheek Kebab.

Served with Large Salad and a Whole Nann bread.

Mixed Grill 001

Mixed Grill 002

Mixed Grill 003

This is a Sizzler dish.

?9.95 all in.

Foxy

[binkylilyput]

Life just isn't that black and white for most people Louisa. Some people will opt to eat meat but would also like to try to "do their bit" and make more ethical choices. It is very difficult to make informed choices about the welfare of an animal prior to slaughter and sometimes we are mislead/ misinformed. That doesn't mean people shouldn't TRY where they can..... and I see no problem with people feeling good about doing so. If information comes to light that a particular product isn't as ethical as thought then people can adjust their choices on that basis. This, of course, is also dependent on people's financial means.

I like to re-cycle as much as possible. It makes me feel good that I'm TRYING to do my bit for the environment. I'm well aware that a lot doesn't actually get recycled but I hope times are changing. I also choose to give a bit here and there to charity. That doesn't make me a saint and I'm also well aware that charity money is sometimes mis spent.....but again, I feel good for trying.

I would say it is better that people try to make little contributions to this world than not at all.....and I see nothing wrong with feeling good about that.

If you choose not to do any of these things then that is up to you but why be so mean to people who try to make a difference in small ways?

Louisa Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I love how such a simple topic is clouded in all

> sorts of mysticism.

>

> IF you genuinely love and care for animals and

> their welfare, you would choose NEVER to eat any

> meat or dairy products

> at all ever, that's how simple this topic is. If

> you continue to eat animal based products, hold

> your hands up and admit "I am as bad as the next

> person". Don't try coming out with all sorts of

> bizarre self-validation points about free range

> produce and how by spending a bit more on eggs

> you're somehow doing the chicken a favour. You're

> still supporting the wider industry which allows

> animals to be used for food consumption. Nothing

> wrong with that of course, just admit it rather

> than trying to polish a turd of an argument.

>

> I have more respect for the vegans and vegetarians

> on here who choose not to eat any meat products.

> All this grand standing about where and how animal

> products are farmed and created is tiresome.

>

> Louisa.

[DulwichFox]

Tried Flaming Mangal Rye Lane today...

Opted for the Lamb Shish. With Rice.. Bulgar wheat.. and Salad. (8 large chunks of tender lamb.)

Salad was very fresh and varied but too much for me.

Came with Large basket of Naan style bread.. Plenty of Yogurt.. Chilli sauce .. and more than enough Olives

Turkish Tea on the house..

came to ?12.50

Very nice food. Very good value. I was stuffed.

Large restaurant but lacking atmosphere. only 7-8 people in at 15.00ish.

Did not know it was BYOB so did not have a drink. (The do not charge corkage)

Will definitely be back.

DulwichFox

[fishbiscuits]

Flaming Mangal - no reason it shouldn't be busier, the food is fine and so is the price. I just think the bright and garish appearance puts some people off.