Second child ponderings, AKA the longest post ever.

[cuppa tea]

I really wouldn't expect to get anything actually 'done'. Once you accept that the rest is alot easier!

My house is a filthy hole, there's a pile of washing to do, a pile to put away, I don't do ironing, barely manage cooking, sometimes manage shopping (thank god for the internet), and the kids regularly go out in dirty clothes with breakfast round their faces. I never have a phone conversation that isn't accompanied by screaming and I forget everyone's birthday. I make it out the house, but usually have to go back as I've left the nappy bag or my credit card, and while out we sprinkle our belongings across Southwark never to be found again. I do remember to bring the kids home, which is something. I look a state as I never go clothes shopping anymore and even if i did it all gets smeared with cream cheese or banana. BUT the kids are happy and thriving, played with and cared for, so something is going right. I will say it is very hard in the beginning. It's crazy times. I don't think it gets easier really, but you will get better and better at it to the point that you feel like you are a superwoman. Give yourself a break and don't have ANY expectations. It's all a big learning.

[cuppa tea]

Oh yes, and I would second a super-king bed if you can afford/fit it in. It's absolutely been the best money we have ever spent!

[littleEDfamily]

Oh it's hard! And I have a 3.5 year gap.

I was just thinking tonight that I now no longer feel hysterical for the dinner/ bed/ bath part of the day. For months I just felt I didn't have enough hands or energy to sort them both out. I do think you need to strive for a system - experiment with what works and then stick with it for as long as it continues to work.

Initially I would breastfeed baby after bath while reading a story to big girl, and get her off to sleep at least to I could concentrate on persuading baby to go to bed at around the same time. Now, big girl hangs in her room after bath until baby is asleep and I then go crawl in with her for a lovely leisurely story and cuddle.

I think going with the flow is all very well with only one child, but with more than one you'll run yourself into the ground unless you do as Mellors suggests and take and and all offers of help with the big one (who will most likely be very put out by the whole thing) and try and find a workable routine for whatever stage they're both at.

Had a thought today, and it's slightly off topic, but something I was not prepared with with No.2 was falling completely in love with the new baby - I can only liken it to falling in love romantically where you feel giddy. This sounds all very well, but the flipside was that in a way I felt like I had fallen temporarily out of love with my older daughter. Of course I still loved her as much as ever, but it was hard for her to compete with that utter obsession I felt for the baby. I found the whole thing really upsetting as I felt so guilty about it, like I had betrayed my older chld, but now, in retrospect, it must have been the hormones (and the fact that a baby seems so angelic compared with a rampaging toddler/ pre-schooler). Thank goodness, feelings I have for them individually are now equal and my relationship with my first child is better than ever. Just wanted to mention my experience as when you have one they are your sun, moon and stars and then when the new one arrives everything (well it did for me anyway) gets so shaken up it can be quite bewildering even for a 'normal' person let alone a sleep deprived zombie of a mum! I think we spend a lot of time worrying about how the first child will cope emotionally with having a sibling and don't think we prepare ourselves adequately for how WE are going to cope emotionally. I found it very hard to keep calm when my elder child was being rough with her sister (through boisterousness, jealousy or both) as the baby seemed to tiny and the big one suddenly so very big and naughty.

[Belle]

Little ed family, thankyou for sharing that - v honest of you and helpful to bear in mind. Actually I read an article in the Guardian I think,a while back, by a mother with a very similar experience - for her it kicked in from the minute her (in her eyes suddenly) cumbersome toddler tried to crawl onto the hospital bed to see the new baby. It's helpful to think a bit about emotional preparation for the parents as well as for the sibling. Interestingly, I do know mums who have had the opposite experience, as usual I guess it's a huge spectrum! I must say so far I find myself v emotional at the thought my son's world will be changed forever by the new arrival, and find it hard even to contemplate the necessary time he'll have to spend away (i.e. for the birth).

[redjam]

LittleEDfamily, your last para struck a chord. I remember sneaking off upstairs with newborn Daughter no 2 simply to gaze in wonder and cover her in kisses, literally hiding from my older daughter because I knew she'd be wildly jealous if she saw me. Of course that also made me feel terribly guilty, as Daughter no 1 had been the apple of my eye only months previously, whereas now I just saw her as a metaphorical giant hazard light whenever she came barreling towards me when I was in the middle of breastfeeding or whatever. Like you, it really took me by surprise, which is rather idiotic in retrospect. And also, like you, it faded and 'evened up' over time (case in point: my elder daughter and I cowering together and giggling tonight while younger daughter, now age 3, had a MASSIVE tantrum about a fork).

Anyway, back on subject, I think someone above used the words 'muddle through', which were pretty much my mantra for the early months - still are, some days. Fact is, you'll adapt and get through it, even though you might not really know how you've done it. And in a few years time, you'll see your two (or more!) kids with their heads bent together, the older one reading the younger one a book, or engrossed in a role-play game, and you'll think it's all worth it. (She says sentimentally, one glass of wine into the evening already...)

[snowboarder]

Yep I'm currently having almost opposite emotions - love the new baby fiercely but OH MY am feeling so much for my cheeky little toddler, whose entire world has changed...totally unnecessary I should imagine as long term he's not going to remember any of this!!

For what it's worth, 3.5 weeks in....

1) How will I get the supper/bath/bedtime routine done with my eldest - NO idea. Have been SO lucky so far and begged for help. New baby has cross moment from about 5ish making it particularly fun.....

2) Will the baby's crying wake up my eldest at night? Not so far but doesn;t stop me doing anything to try to make sure that baby doesn't cry - cue all night cuddling and feeding...

3) How will I breastfeed a newborn with a cheeky toddler running riot? - This is not going well so far - we have had house plants decapitated, the front door opened wide, clambering over kitchen worktops, playing in the sink and this morning playing with mummy's wallet turned into eating coins. Shudder. He also tries to make me stop feeding the baby - pulls my top down and waves goodbye to my boob saying 'byeeee mummy-milk'. Sigh - need tips on this. He's just not the type to sit nicely and read/watch telly etc.

4) Lack of sleep? What can I say....combination of adrenalin and absolute necessity just keeps you going....so far...

6) Am I likely to ever sleep again/wear a nice pair of non-baby stained jeans/eat a meal without being interrupted ever again? Nope, sorry....well, again, not so far anyway!

ps - I also feel compelled to make this known - I was told MANY times whilst I bemoaned my hugely pregnant-dealing with a toddler is so hard-state that it got easier once the baby was born. I believed them. They were WRONG.

[Mark Dodds]

I left the house today and woman xxx, a friend from when she was a normal human being without children, was pushing one of those double buggies where one child sits in front and slightly on top of the other - you know? And I said 'Hi woman XXX' and she said 'Hi you', and reversed up with the buggy (for twas passed beyond the hedge and I could not see) and pulled a sling aside from on front of her body and said 'Look I've got another one!'.

This was profoundly astonishing because I thought she'd only just had, well quite recently anyway, the second; and this was most definitely a third. 'My god HOW on earth did you do that?' I said. 'I didn't' she said. 'It wasn't me. I'm just pretending to do it'. And proceeded to push the double decker buggy up the street.

Now that woman xxx is someone to admire.

[Fuschia]

No sb I am afraid being pg is never harder than the baby ... I learned that with the twins ! People forget, is why they say that !

[bee74]

since Ruth B pointed me in the direction of this post she started in March I wonder if since then anyone has got any more thoughts on how to cope with the new baby and the older child?

Snowboarder, I totally agree. Although I am most def fed up of being pregnant I am also most def dreading a new baby!

[Ruth_Baldock]

Bee; what is your age difference going to be?

We have 19mo between them- Seb is 2 (give or take 13 days...) and Lex is 4.5mo.

Greatest challenges have been:

-weird behaviour from eldest: he kept hiding under a chair and behind a houseplant.

-total food refusal: as a means of control or whatever, when led was 3w old, Seb refused to eat for four sagas straight. Not even his favourite snacks. I remained calm and continued to offer food whilst inwardly worrying myself sick. He eventually realised I wasn't going to change my attitude toward him eating, and led wasnt going anywhere, and began eating again.

Youngest not wanting to be put down- babywearing. Sanity saver. We also bought one of those baby swing things which soothed her too.

Sleep regressions: they both went through them at the same time. Same with teething- led is getting her first ones, Seb getting his last set of molars. I got through it by moaning on Facebook and sleeping every chance I got, especially at the weekend when Mr B takes charge of Seb and I barely leave the bed. Mmmm...

Jealousy: going through this now; Seb kicks and hits led. I tell him he is NOT to hurt her, and if he wants a cuddle, I'll happily do so if he asks nicely. He's just about got the message and will now ask me to put led on her play at, and then be clambers onto my lap. It's harder to deal with when we are out.U

I'm lucky in that my husband is incredibly supportive and does all the cooking and cleaning now (he didn't used to...) when lex was born I basically told him to pull his finger out, or it wouldn't work.

[Belle]

get out , get out, get out (of the house!) - however long it takes, however hard it is, life is sooo much easier out and about - toddler happier and stimulated (and less needy of your attention) , baby likely to sleep/be calm if in buggy/sling - then can retreat to cafe with bribes for toddler and feed baby if he/she gets hungry. Also meeting up with friends is a massive sanity saver - not just the practical bit where they can help run after toddler or watch baby for a sec while you do the running - but also if you have a friend in similar boat, sharing the stories re juggling 2 really helps.

Also - plan food/meals - not just for toddler and not just dinner but your lunch, if you are anything like me - I skipped lunch for ages, and often still do struggle to be organised enough to feed myself - such a mistake. I came down with a horrible virus at 2 weeks in which felled me (and messed up bf considerably). It meant I couldn't do things like taking my son out to playground/nursery/even his bath, at a time when he really needed me.

Have been lucky so far re sibling rivalry, though expect it to emerge as baby becomes more able to do things and therefore a rival. Did find we had major tantrums etc from toddler, and am only just starting to address this (10 weeks in) - starting with quality time just me and him at the weekends. If you don't already have a nursery set up, might be worth considering - I know it's expensive but we increased from 2 to 3 mornings a week which has really helped. Feel it is an investment in my sanity...Although I'd planned that to be when I caught up on sleep but unfort baby 2 prefers to sleep on the move...

[bee74]

Ruth

it sounds like you are doing so well, considering all the challenges of such a small age gap! I am sure it will all be worth it in the end when already in a year's time you will see them playing together while you sit down and read a magazine... (could that really be?)

The age gap is going to be exactly 3 years, so I guess the challenges will be slightly different. But my concerns are similar: regression, jelousy, sleeping esp as I still sleep with my son in the same room and I cuddle him to sleep for his nap for about half an hour, not bonding with new baby or feeling less love for the now huge toddler, being unable to cope with attending to the needs of two kids, staying sane, sleeping, eating, breathing, ... surviving in short.

Belle,

yes, getting out of the house was and still is a very big priority for me from the word go, for the same reasons you meniton.

[Belle]

I think you (at least I did) go through a phase where you think, "how the f*** am I going to do this?! How does anyone?!" Then you look back and realise you got through a week and it was ok.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Agree with everything Belle said.

Bee, naps/sleep slightly problematic for us. I used to co-sleep with seb for his two hour lunchtime nap, but can't anymore. This p*ssed him off a LOT. As a result, he cut his nap down to and hour and recently it's been a massive battle to get him to sleep and then he only naps for 20 mins. I've basically cut his naps out, he seems to be fine and it made life easier on me.

Meant to say, get as much help as you can with toddler: nursery, CM, whatever! My ILs have Seb on Fridays and sometimes have him from Thursday pm (after book start) until Friday evening. It is a massive sanity saver and is good for him too- gets to be the centre of attention and doesn't have to worry about the baby. On my toddler free days, I chill with the baby, nap, basically take it easy...and I don't have to watch ceebeebies! Bliss...

Seb loves tO help with Lex (not leb as the phone typo-d in my last reply). He gives me nappies/ wipes, brings her toys, comes upstairs with me when she wakes from a nap, likes to make sure she's strapped into the buggy before i strap him in etc... I'd imagine at 3, your eldest may love to help even more.

I got an overwhelming feeling of absolute love and adoration for Lex the moment she was born; I was and am still utterly besotted with her, I think she's amazing. I also feel terribly guilty because I didn't get that overwhelming love with Seb until he was much older (birth trauma, shell shocked and bewildered at he new baby etc). I'm a lot more confident this time too.

P

[muppet]

You definitely will sleep, wear a nice pair of jeans etc again - it just takes a while! I had a 21 month gap and husband working all week in Manchester from time no 2 was born (we were in London). V hard but you just have to manage. Less washing, cleaning etc and strip to Sainsburys was the highlight of the day. Now they are 14 and 16 and its a whole new set of pressures....! cherish the baby/toddler stage when they don't want to tell you that you are the worst mother in the world, the most embarrassing mother in the world, the meanest mother in the world etc etc etc!

[Helen GV]

Muppet thanks for that, I think it does really help to remember that the time they are young passes do quickly, I try remember this in the darkest minutes! Though my paranoia has convinced me they already think I'm mean embarrassing and a terrible mother! They just haven't mastered superlatives yet...

I am trying to just enjoy the good bits and brush over the bad, get out a lot and fantasise about winning euro millions so I can get a nanny, a dishwasher and a tumble drier, plus people to operate them!

(plus a new kitchen to accommodate..)

[crystal7]

Completely agree with Belle about getting out of the house. Even in this weather it saves us. All bad toddler behaviour happens in the house! I've found breastfeeding whilst keeping an eye on toddler challenging. She uses feeding times as an opportunity to empty nappy cream over the carpet, climb onto work surfaces, throw stuff etc. It is hard , I underestimated how little 1to1 time I would have with toddler post baby. It-not much cue cries of mummy put the baby down! He's not hungry! I need a cuddle etc. And when baby is asleep or with daddy and I try to spend time with her she wont hear of it! Grr. It is mostly fine though- helped by 3 days per wk at childminder! Good luck!

[JDR]

I'm a bit like muppet, I've got my third due to start school next Sept so despite remmbering how hard this stage is, get out, find firends that can provide tea/sanity and try every so often to take a step back from it all and remember to enjoy them. I had a 21 month gap followed by a 14 month gap (3 under 3 by two weeks). Theres a lot of that time I don;t really remember as much as I'd like because its easy to get caught up in the moment and the practicalities.

Some childcare helps massively, in winter, friends with older children a similar age to your own are a life saver and every visitor has to be given jobs to do. I slightly stuffed up that one cos I forgot to tell my in laws that they could jsut come for the weekend and not stay for the days I was on my own with three that I made them do when babes tiny because they generated work with cooking and washing so asked that they did some childcare whilst I caught up. Just make sure you ask for help with stuff that works inyour home, guess were all different so one size won't fit all.

and enjoy them... I'm not having anymore children but do sometimes wish I could have frozen time when they were smaller

[livebait]

GOOD LUCK!!

[bee74]

thank you all for the advice. As much as i understand you are all trying to help, I find myself dreading the new arrival more and more... which is tragic as I am feeling the first twinges as we speak!

On top of this I am finding myself very emotional about how my relationship with my son is going to change - the loss of that special one-to-one bond we have built and cherished since he was born. It won't be mum and M anymore, but mum and M and ?...

Sad?

[Belle]

I tell you what - I feel glad every day that I'm no longer pregnant with a toddler - found that v v hard work! I felt v emotional just beforehand about the changing relationship too, am sure it's v natural - and in the early days I did feel a bit heartbroken at how things had changed but my son adjusted remarkably quickly, never seemed to focus on the baby as the reason for the decreased one to one time, and instead we have a lovely new dynamic which is him + baby. It all works out!

[Pickle]

Oh Bee, please try not to worry. You will be amazed at how you have enough love for more than one child, and you'll also find yourself looking at your older child through new eyes as you marvel at how much he's changed since he was born. Sure there will be tricky times, but the good outweighs the bad.

Right up till the minute my daughter was born I had doubts about how I would bond, and I struggled with the pregnancy (almost felt resentful at times). But as soon as she arrived everything changed and I wouldn't change a thing.

I'm expecting #3 in a few weeks time having had a small age gap between the first two, and find myself approaching it completely differently this time round. I remember having the same worries as you when I was pregnant with #2, especially as my son was still so little and dependent. This time round I'm excited, and think the older children are going to be great with their little brother/sister.

Wishing you a speedy labour!

P x