Second child ponderings, AKA the longest post ever.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I've been thinking; how do all of you with two close in age get anything done?

1) How will I get the supper/bath/bedtime routine done with my eldest (who'll be 18/19 months when Unborn One arrives) with a Newborn? Am likely to be doing it on my todd from the offset, as I am not sure if my husband can take paternity leave (long story. Actually, not long story, he's a freelancer).

2) Will the baby's crying wake up my eldest at night?

3) How will I breastfeed a newborn with a cheeky toddler running riot? Husband has totally and utterly baby-proofed Cheeky S' room, so that I can take both infants upstairs, Seb can play etc and I can sit in the glider feeding newborn. This is likely to work about 5% of the time.

4) Lack of sleep? How does one do it without fainting in the day? Cheeky Toddler gets bored if we do 'quiet' activities for too long. I nap with him at the moment, we co-sleep for his 2 hr nap in the day, and he'll only settle with me lying down in my bed with him. This works fab at the moment, but I am wondering if I should 'train' him into napping in his cot in the daytime now to save on any hair-pulling out moments later on. He is ab fab in his cot at night, giggles and goes 'Mmmmmm!' when he see's it post-bathtime.

5) Cheeky S due his second MMR jab right around when I'll have a teeny newborn. Is it okay for his Grandma to take him to the clinic? She'd have his red-book, but do I need to notify them/send a letter saying 'I am his Mum, it's okay, I give my permission?' The thought of having to hold him down (as I did yesterday, ack) and also deal with possible screeching newborn at the same time is too much and not fair on Seb, I think.

6) Am I likely to ever sleep again/wear a nice pair of non-baby stained jeans/eat a meal without being interrupted ever again?

I am planning to baby-wear lots, just out of practicality really, and I also realise that one of them will have to wail for a few minutes whilst I sort out the other one, but is there a secret to it all????

[Fuschia]

Ruth_Baldock Wrote:

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is there a secret to

> it all????

Wine

[Ruth_Baldock]

...thought as much. For me, or the children????

[SummerMum]

A good piece of advice I got was so common sense, but I needed to hear - 'you just have to let your standards drop', and for me that meant parenting standards as well as domestic one!

1) Meal times - it is the witching hour. For a long time it was the worst bit of my day, and I had to remind myself I wasn't alone, within a mile radius of me there would be many other Mums feeling the same way. Find out what works - baby may like being in the bouncy chair and watching dinner time (you never know!) or use the sling...

2) Crying, night times weren't a problem, but early morning was - if I was up with baby any time from 5am, the older one would wake.

4) Lack of sleep - just sleep whenever you can. In waiting rooms, in the car (not when you're driving). Coffee coffee coffee

5) If Grandma will take him for jab then go for it. Phone clinic to check with them, just in case, but good old Granny!

6) Yes - you will, I went on to have a third, after thinking that two was enough.

It won't last forever that exhaustion. Be honest with friends and family about how tired you are, fed up you feel. I remember the first day my husband went back to work after baby two arrived, and very soon I was faced with two children crying , at me, at the same time.I had never experienced that before, and I could please neither of them. Very quickly you adjust to the change, the mess, the noise level, but it did take some adjustment.

And you will still get those precious moments in the middle of the night when you can look at both of them sleeping, and it will all seem so worthwhile.

Hope this helps - it is meant to!!

[Otta]

We'll also be facing this soon, age gap a bit bigger though, eldest will be 2.25.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Otta, Can you reason with Ott-ette? We can JUST ABOUT reason with Cheeky S, and luckily he's going through a 'helpful' stage (likes fetching/putting things in the bin, helping to clear up etc) so I hope it continues until Unborn One arrives...

Summer Mum- It did help, ta! Will have to show this to my husband; I envisage many, many passive-agressive comments about the house being a total tip. Him, not me. I don't do p-a, I just screech and cry and go a bit banshee-like.

[Fuschia]

Try to get toghether eith other mums as much as possible.

Small playdates at someones house with lunch are probably the lest stressful form of company. I am quite into this atm, feel free to come round to mine if you like! Lunch usually = pasta, our house is pandemonium (think 3, under 3) so another couple makes little difference..

[Ruth_Baldock]

I have no idea how you do it with 4, F! I often struggle with one (and bump). You must have excellent managment skills ;)

Would love to get together for insane toddler/babby playdates when this new one eventually rocks up (I quote Snowboarder, who said '6 months is long enough for a pregnancy, thanks')

[Otta]

Ruth, we can sort of reason with her about some things. But it's going to be big upheaval for her, as she still co-sleeps, and breastfeeds (although she is losing interest a bit, which is good).

[Ruth_Baldock]

Soultion? Buy a super-king sized bed. We did ('for all the children!' said Husband. He thinks we'll have 4 or 5. HA HA HA HA HA. HA. No)

[Bishberro]

I agree with summer mum, for the first few months do whatever it takes to get you through and try not to feel guilty (which is impossible). For me, it was (and still is) lots of cbeebies/dvds especially when I was breastfeeding or settling the baby to sleep as it was the only way to ensure the toddler stayed in one room and didn't get up to mischief. The worst time is the early evening and 8 months on, I don't think even now I have a good bed/bath routine. The oldest one stays downstairs watching Peppa Pig while I bath the baby, running back down every now and then to check he's not playing with knives as he refuses to have a bath with his baby brother.

One of my friends uses a portable dvd player so toddler watches a dvd in the bedroom while she feeds/settles the baby in the bedroom next door. In the first few weeks I did anything to get by - baby in a bouncer chair/sling while I bathed and read stories to the eldest and then when the baby did have a proper bed time, I often had to leave him to cry if I was seeing to his older brother. I didn't let him get really upset as I couldn't bear it but if it was just moaning/whingey cries I'd leave him and he soon learned to settle himself. You're a lot less precious with your second as you know what you're doing.

I found the first three months very hard - like an endurance test that never seemed to end. Then around the three/four month mark I suddenly realised things had got a lot easier. It's still full on and you never have a minute but I get a lot more enjoyment out of them now and there are some lovely moments when I feel so lucky having two.

[duchessofdulwich]

if finances allow, have you thought of getting some home help after baby number 2? a cleaner? someone to help you with meals? always accept help from granny etc

[Ruth_Baldock]

Granny can help, in theory, but finances are slightly dire at the moment, hence Husband freelancing, probably whilst I'm in labour (Joke! I bloody well hope, anyway) so a cleaner is sliiightly out of the question. Cheeky S enjoys a good dust/hoover (pointed out the missed 'bits' to me yesterday, the cheek!) so I can get a bit done with him helping and baby in the sling.

I am sure I am working myself up for no real reason; keep telling myself it won't be anywhere as bad as when S was born, and at least I'll have a little 19mo friend for company in the day ;)

[Pickle]

I managed with a 16.5 month gap, and am still (kind of) sane.

For me the key was to be organised. I became a master of breastfeeding baby while feeding toddler, made life easier to do both at the same time whenever possible and then (all going well) meant both went down for naps at the same time.

Bathtime - baby lying on towel on bathroom floor, toddler in bath for quick wash, baby dunked in same bath briefly, out and dried. More kicking time for baby while I got toddler out, dried and dressed (sometimes had to do an impromptu breastfeed sitting on the side of the bath with one arm ready to catch toddler if necessary). I often managed a story with toddler and feeding baby at the same time - then would put toddler to bed and take baby through to her room for a final feed before bed.

Wine. Definitely wine.

The crying in the night was never a problem, my son always slept through it.

I'm through the other side of it now and reaping the benefits of a small age gap. One 4 and one nearly 3, they love each other to bits and are each other's best friends.

You will be fine!

[Fuschia]

New baby F gets bathed once a week max and clothes changed only when they look so grubby I start to feel embarrassed... luckily he doesn't seem to mind. Saves on washing too!

[trinity]

You will manage and it will be tough for a while but you will find the 'right' corners to cut for your little family group.

My limit was reached when one night I was cooking dinner, breastfeeding baby, supervising bath time, helping with homework and overseeing music practice - all at the same time.

[Ruth_Baldock]

trinity Wrote:

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>

> My limit was reached when one night I was cooking

> dinner, breastfeeding baby, supervising bath time,

> helping with homework and overseeing music

> practice - all at the same time.

This is why I keep telling my husband NO MORE than 2. At least when homework comes around, they'll both be nice, school-aged children and I won't have any babies to see to. Hopefully.

[fmay]

Erm, yes I often find myself having to cook entire family dinners/lay the table/clear up etc whilst breastfeeding the newborn in one arm, at the same time....and I also put her on a towel on the bathroom floor, or in her bouncy chair whilst I bath my toddler and get him ready for bed. Lots of sling wearing as well so I have hands free to clean the house or chase after the eldest in parks and so on. Fun fun fun!!!

[fmay]

...You might find that you find the newborn incredibly easy after getting used to being busy with and older, more mobile child though. I appreciate the 'calm' of my baby now. Just a thought, on a more positive note!?!

[zeban]

When we were all small, my Mum put all 4 of us girls in the same bath- we bathed every night. When we got too big and old for that, we often still bathed in the same bath one after the other. Saves so much time.

Learning from her, organisation is key. My friend who is just about to have her third has been begging my mum to write her a book!

[MrsP]

Hi there, I have an 11 month gap between my two - you will cope - I agree with the post advising to let your standards drop, also let your horizons shrink for a bit. I never thought I would get through it, but have. Looking back I think a common sense approach is best, it will not be as bad as you think. I found the first six weeks quite easy with two as the baby would sleep all the time. I used the baby bouncer alot when feeding the eldest, and then had the baby in the bouncer in the bathroom while I did bath. My eldest was really good when I had to feed the baby, admittedly TV was a god-send when all else failed. The children never woke each other up crying, although the baby was co-sleeping with me for nearly a year. All in all, whatever works! But if you do struggle and need to catch up on sleep don't be afraid to ask for help, none of us are invinsible. Good luck!

[Mellors]

1) How will I get the supper/bath/bedtime routine done with my eldest (who'll be 18/19 months when Unborn One arrives) with a Newborn?

By tearing out your hair, and watching a lot of Beebies. Actually, I used to stick littlest in bouncy chair for most of it and just ignore any crying. Sling also v helpful. I dunked her in bath, put her in sleepsuit, and bf her whilst older one was in bath, then threw her in cot whilst I did his story etc. She slept loads better than him, probably because she was ignored from day 1!

2) Will the baby's crying wake up my eldest at night? Umm, dunno - mine were in separate bedrooms from day 1, but toddler is pretty bombproof.

3) How will I breastfeed a newborn with a cheeky toddler running riot? Husband has totally and utterly baby-proofed Cheeky S' room, so that I can take both infants upstairs, Seb can play etc and I can sit in the glider feeding newborn. This is likely to work about 5% of the time.

Its all about the timing - I used to try and do the first feed before toddler woke up, 2nd feed when we were at playgroup/friends house in morning, lunchtime feed whilst toddler was having lunch, afternoon feed whilst toddler was watching TV/in somewhere enclosed to run about, bedtime feed whilst toddler was in bath.

If in doubt, resort to Beebies/bribery and muddle through.

4) Lack of sleep? How does one do it without fainting in the day?

I would try and get S to nap on his own during the day, and get baby to sleep at the same time as soon as you can. It was only having them sleeping together, even if only for an hour, that got me through the day. I also farmed toddler out to anyone who would take him as often as poss and tried to have a rest if I could get baby down.

5) Cheeky S due his second MMR jab right around when I'll have a teeny newborn. Is it okay for his Grandma to take him to the clinic? She'd have his red-book, but do I need to notify them/send a letter saying 'I am his Mum, it's okay, I give my permission?' The thought of having to hold him down (as I did yesterday, ack) and also deal with possible screeching newborn at the same time is too much and not fair on Seb, I think.

Absolutely get granny to do it, they won't even know.

6) Am I likely to ever sleep again/wear a nice pair of non-baby stained jeans/eat a meal without being interrupted ever again?

No, not for about 5 years. Mwhahahahahaa.

Seriously though, you'll be fine. Its hard, I won't lie, but you get through it. Lets face it, its too late now, you have to!

In hindsight I wish I had been more open to accepting help from anyone at all - cleaner was essential, and I wish I had pleaded with family/friends more. Also, after about 6 months I had to admit I really wasn't coping very well, and went to the docs for antidepressants, which totally changed my life (Mummy's little helpers as they were known in this house!). I had them for about 6 months, and it probably saved me getting a divorce. Wine probably helps in much the same way though (I don't drink, but think maybe I should start!).

Loweing standards is essential. Eating ready meals and ignoring mess won't kill you.

WHY am I now having No 3 ?!?!

[Pickle]

I also wanted to add (at risk of being shot down), that routine was a lifesaver for me. Toddler had a pretty set eat/sleep/playgroup routine when baby came along. By default baby ended up in the same routine (quite quickly, with no forcing, it just happened), and that meant that I got a 2 hour break every lunchtime in which they both slept.

And would you believe, I STILL get a 1-2 hour break while they sleep after lunch! I hate to think how my sleep loving 4 year old is going to cope with full days at school come September!!

[Belle]

hmm, having had bedtime battles for four months now, we're experimenting with no nap - only a 5 minute battle last night - but i am shuddering to think how am going to cope with a) next six months or so with no break during day and b) toddler who doesn't nap and newborn come autumm. Fireman sam I suspect is the answer, but there's nothing that can really beat the peace of knowing your child(ren) are asleep upstairs.

[Sanne Panne]

Coffee, toddler dvds, lots of time outdoors (distraction, energy burning), playing your own guilty pleasures music ('80s etc) during bath time and wine once the smallest is asleep. The toughest time was 4-7pm. No colic, just hectic with the toddler (either not having napped or having woken up super cranky from nap) and my patience well gone.

My life became easier again once the youngest could sit up and started sleeping through the night consistently. I'm definitely not having any more kids! Life is too good now!