please advise about 5 week old baby!

[hellosailor]

Morning forumites,

I would love some advice about my baby who is 5 weeks old now. She is my first baby and I'm still very much trying to get to grips with working out her cues etc, which I'm still finding quite tricky!

We have no 'routine', other than we've just started giving her a bath at roughly the same time in the early evening and I tend to go out and about with her in a sling for a couple of hours in the afternoon while she sleeps, but other than that the days are pretty random - and I guess it rattles me a little when mums with babies of a similar age refer to their '7pm feed' or '2pm nap' or whatever as I just don't have anything resembling a schedule that I could refer to!

Probably a bad idea as I suspect it's adding to the gnawing feeling of inadequacy but when I dip into the books I've been lent like the baby whisperer, which refers to trying to get your baby into the habit of, for instance, eating, being up for a bit, then napping, I can't really relate to it as my little one naps when she is tired, (or actually quite often, doesn't nap when she is tired! i.e yawning etc, but doesn't go to sleep.) But I guess the point is, I can't imagine how I would decide when she slept rather than her?!

It's not that I particularly want to 'impose' a routine on her, it's not as if I have anything else I'm urgently supposed to be doing other than looking after my baby! But more that I'm guessing that having a bit of routine rather than everything being at haphazard times will mean she feels better fed and rested and settled as the days and weeks go by? And also mean that rather than me spending pretty much 24 hours a day lying prone with her on my chest, because she cries if I do anything else, I could do things like, er, have a moment to put the washing machine on, or even have a pee!

I suppose I'm also easily rattled by people constantly telling me that unless we get into a routine of sorts, we are 'making a rod for our own backs' etc, and that 'babies thrive on routine and feel more secure if they know things will happen at roughly the same time every day'

I'm enjoying the days being random with feeds/sleeps being spontaneous but now that enjoyment is undercut by anxiety that if I don't want everything to be so random for many months to come, I now need to start doing something different somehow.

For instance, she won't fall asleep unless it it on my chest, especially after a feed, or her dad's chest, if she is totally conked out then you might be able to pop her in her moses basket by stealth but if she stirred and woke a few minutes later and realised she was in the basket then she would immediately cry as she would realise she wasn't on one of our chests! I have tried soothing her without picking her up immediately but she is inconsolable until she is picked up so I couldn't bring myself not to...the idea of putting her in her basket for a nap at a specific time, when she was awake, and expecting her to sleep, or indeed, the idea of her sleeping in her moses basket at night rather than falling asleep on my chest in our bed and then sleeping beside me in our bed for the rest of the night, feels unimaginable.

Similarly, the idea of there being a 7pm feed, then a 10pm feed or whatever, rather than cluster feeding all eve is unimaginable!

Is this lack of day to day schedule completely standard for a 5 week old as she's still just too little to think about doing anything else? Does the fact that she won't sleep anywhere but my chest/bed, mean she won't start going in basket, cot in a few weeks? Should I be trying harder to get her to now or just relaxing about it? Ditto with the feeding? Does it matter that sometimes there are 4 hours between feeds, sometimes 1 hour, sometimes a big feed, sometimes a snack?

Do babies find their own rough 'schedules' even if you don't do anything or am I indeed 'making a rod for our own backs' by not trying to establish one and will end up with a 6 month old who will only sleep on me, cries if you ever put her down for a minute and feeds several times a night?

Sorry for the marathon ramble, my sleep deprived brain struggles to be succinct!

I would really appreciate your thoughts....

[sanity girl]

Hi there, try not to worry too much, and please ignore what other parents say about their babies - all babies are different!

My daughter (first baby) was pretty much like yours, I fed on demand, she napped when SHE felt like it, hated being put down awake in moses basket etc etc. She was never one to follow a routine and now aged four she is still a very strong willed little thing. She only really settled into more regular naps when she was about 8 months, from what I recall, and once she was about 18 months she started having one nice long nap a day - but that still required being walked around in pushchair, driven in car, or sung to etc until she fell asleep.

Now baby no. 2, a boy, is a very different kettle of fish. He loves to nap in his cot, is happy to be put down awake, is a dream to put to bed in the evening and so on. But he is also breastfed on demand and other than bedtime and morning nap he doesn't really have a routine. I don't know whether he is like this because he was forced to adapt as a 2nd baby (I remember him wailing as a newborn while I did his sister's bedtime and then conking out before I got round to sorting him out!), or whether it is just his different personality.

Anyway, what I'm trying to say here is if you're a go with the flow kind of person, then I think you should carry on doing that and just follow your instincts. I always ignored my Gina Ford devotee friends and felt rather pleased when I was about to be out and about with my non-routine baby while they were stuck at home due to nap times etc.

Enjoy!

[mouseysarah]

5 weeks old is still really, really little - the "making a rod for your own back" people are talking nonsense if you ask me. At 5 weeks the baby barely knows she's born and is still quite a foetal creature who wants to snuggle up to a warm body, constantly dozing and snacking. Fast forward a couple of months and things will be very different, whether you push them to be or just go with the flow!

It seems like most babies do find their own rough 'schedule' sooner or later - some at 6-7 weeks, some at 2-3 months, some not until 5-6 months. Often there is a broadly similar pattern eventually but children are different in what they eat and how much they need to sleep, so there is no one perfect routine that works for all children.

Also different routines will suit different families, eg if you have a child to get to school in the morning the baby will often end up having a short sleep in the buggy at 8.30 because that's the rhythm of the day, or if your family eats dinner together at 6.30 then bedtime will be a bit later than in a house where the kids have tea at 5.

It sounds as though you are doing really well, and you need to trust yourself and go back to enjoying the tiny baby time!

[Ko]

hi there, 5 weeks is still very little and they still have small tummies so find it hard to always have enough milk at each feed (so harder for a routine as sometimes they want snacks) and they also find it hard to stay awake for long.

my little one was rocked to sleep for the first 6 months, but later allowed us to put him in his cot while still awake and settled himself to sleep. when they are tiny, they just want lots of warm snuggly cuddles and comfort.

as long as your baby is fine, then you are doing well.

once baby's tummy is bigger and she can take bigger feeds, she is likely to get into more of a pattern with feeding. as she gets older, she will also need less sleep and manage to stay awake for longer and a pattern may appear.

the most important thing is that if baby is hungry, you feed her. but honestly it sounds like you are doing a great job and she is lucky to have such a lovely caring mummy xxxxx

[CJRB]

I couldn't agree more. It really is true that babies are all different AND that no one week is the same as the next. My 2-week old son is so utterly unlike his older sister, I'm flummoxed that they've come from the same stock!

So, go with your instincts & keep hold of that thought that whatever she is doing now, it'll be different in a few days/weeks/months. Enjoy these early weeks, it sounds as if you're doing just fine.

[cuppa tea]

I would ignore everyone else and ditch the parenting books. You know what to do I am sure. She's your baby and it sounds as though you are listening to her beautifully. She will tell you what she needs.

I wish I had listened to my own advice and done the same! I was so bogged down with advice from family, friends and other mums that it made it miserable. Both mine sound like similar babies to yours. If they need a routine they will eventually fine their own when they are ready.

[Saffron]

My baby (now a 1 yo) hates schedules. It's not true that all babies like routines. Just as all adults are different, all babies are different. You are not making a rod for your own back. You're doing a super job of being an instinctive parent!

If you have time to read a different type of book (eg not 'baby whisperer' type), please read Jean Liedloff's book "The Continuum Concept" for a very different point of view on infants and their place in society.

http://www.continuum-concept.org/

http://www.continuum-concept.org/cc_defined.html

xx

[KatsuQueen]

It sounds like you are doing great and really in tune with your babies needs. However, just to put another perspective on things - I wasn't that confident about listening to my babies needs and infact, found such advice really intimidating. I.e. all the mothers around me and the NCT leader who said, oh you will know what to do with your baby. Just follow your mothering instincts.

Well obviously some women have better mothering instincts that others because when I brought MiniKatsu home I was confused, tired to the point of being delirious and had no clue about what to do, how to look after him, is he really still hungry etc. After a very traumatic crash c-section, I already felt like a failure and could not relate to all the other mothers in my NCT group who were meeting for coffees, walking up and down LL with their babies in slings and seemingly able to to deal with any kind of baby crisis. Whereas I was barely functioning and living in abject terror. Neither me or my husband have any family nearby and we only had each other.

(and here comes the "controversial" part) A very good friend recommended Gina Ford routines and I found they worked really well for MiniKatsu and me. Maybe he was just a "routine-y" baby anyway, but it just gave me some measure of control - at least I had a pattern to follow to make sure he was OK. So I wouldn;t be totally negative about those books, they can be useful for some families.

Just a little note for anyone who might be in the same situation as me (sorry if this is slightly off topic). Cuppatea, I know what you mean about advice from friends, family and other mums, but OMG I would have done anything for some support......even someone to sit with me during the loooooong hours I spent breastfeeding.

[Ruth_Baldock]

It sounds like you're doing exactly the right thing for you and your teeeeeny tiiiny babby. We didn't have a 'proper' routine until Cheeky S was...9 months? Apart from his mealtimes and bath routine, really. He napped whenever he liked, for as long as he liked. Baby Whisperer made me laugh (and cry) so I didn't listen, and followed my instincts and his cues. Like you, I clusterfed all night and his 'last feed' certainly wasn't a 10pm feed, or whatever, it was between 8.45pm and 11.15pm.

So don't worry!

[cuppa tea]

I think lack of support can make things really difficult. I hadn't thought of it like that. It's a real shame that it seems to be a luxury these days.I understand totally where you are coming from KatsuQueen. I was lucky and had some support which allowed me to be able to concentrate entirely on my baby and how to feed him etc. I think people have to get through it however they can to be honest. I just found people are obsessed with babies sleeping through the night and getting into routines and I found this very difficult as both mine are absolutely rubbish sleepers as babies and refuse routine. Honestly the advice on how to do it was ENDLESS!!! I think that advice erodes away at us being confident to listen to the babies needs. THere is far too much contradictory information out there.

[Fuschia]

Oh no no no... ignore the books and the other mums REALLY

Enjoy your babymoon, regard this as the 4th trimester and gradually adjust to still being sort of stillpregnant only the baby is on the outside (period of adjustment for both of you!) After the 3m is up, you can begin to think about the rest of your lives together. Everything will change at about 4m when the baby's brain development suddenly changes all sleep patterns anyway.

Don't worry. Everything is all a phase, and this first few months, more so than any others. Enjoy it, imprint it on your mind, every vomity whingy disorganised messy moment because it is so, so precious.

[reren]

Think everyone has pretty much said what i'd have said but i though i'd add my recent experience in case its helpful (tho as everyne has said every baby is different). Personally i was amazed by how prevalent the idea that you have to get babies into a routine from day one is. Everyone i knew at the same stage was obsessed w four hourly feeds and 7pm bedtimes - but it didnt feel right for my baby so i just went w the flow. I found until about 3 months he had no real routine and just slept whenever he was tired and often cluster fed in the evenings. Personally i enjoyed this lack of routine as he just fit around whatever i was doing.

He was often very awake in the evenings and just went to bed when we did. I found the cluster feeding knackering but it soon had a brilliant pay off and he started sleeping through the night (for my baby a full tummy is what he needs to sleep for a decent amount of time). From 3 months he started falling asleepmearlier and as we got to 4 months he started falling adleep by 7 all by himself and sleeping through to 8ish the next morning (w a dream feed). Now at 5 months his night time sleep is a bit off as i think he's waking from hunger and so im preparing to tackle solids - but he has fallen into a pretty regular routine during the day. In fact i was amused to find when talking to a 'fording' mum that he seems to have settled into gina ford's routine without my having ever picked up her book. Personally i think you should follow a routine if that is your natural inclination - if you are the sort of person to whom routine doesnt come naturally - then trying to force yourself into it can end up being really stressful. i have loved the flexibility of feeding on demand and not trying to set a routine - it makes everything so much more relaxing for me. I suspect whether your baby sleeps at night is much more about the individual baby and whether they are a good sleeper than anything you do or dont do!

[jollybaby]

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[hellosailor]

Thanks so much everyone, I really appreciate your reassurances and encouragement!

I definitely want to continue to just go with the flow with feeding and I can't really see what the alternative to that is anyway as I would never leave her crying if she was hungry to try and 'space out' the feedings or whatever it is I imagine you would have to do to get feeding into more of a spaced out routine, so she will definitely continue to snaffle whenever she wants..

I thought about everyone's advice on these posts yesterday and tried to work out where my anxiety is coming from and I think the thing that is worrying me most is without doubt the fact that she will not be put down, pretty much ever, awake or asleep, so that I'm pretty much holding her 24 hours a day because if I don't she is either on the verge of crying and constantly fractious or generally full on crying. (except at night when after her last feed she will sleep next to me in our bed between feeds without actually having to be on my chest all night.) Her dad is not at all worried by this (though I would point out that his more laid back attitude must be in part because he is at work all day, using his limbs freely and not holding a baby 17 hours a day from the minute she wakes up, unable to put her down to go for a pee or eat or shower etc unless I'm willing to let her sob for a few minutes while I frantically brush my teeth or something!) as he feels that in time over the coming weeks she will seamlessly start going down for naps at times of our choosing, when awake, in her moses basket or cot, without objection.

From my, admittedly totally novice point of view, I can't help feeling that a baby that is mortified if you ever try to put her down in a moses basket even when asleep (she will wake within a couple of minutes and scream to be picked up), let alone when she's awake, will not suddenly be ok with this some days or even weeks later, particularly if you've just given up on even attempting it because it's too upsetting/stressful and so just hold her constantly? If she learns that I will hold her constantly, never attempt to get her to sleep anywhere but my arms and rock her/feed her to sleep, will she really be any different in a few days or weeks as her dad trusts? Because if the answer is that this is likely to be the way things continue unless I do attempt to change it somehow, then I think I would feel the need to do that as not even having times when I can put her down for 20 minutes to wash or eat etc is taking its toll emotionally and physically. I have literally NO CLUE how I would go about that though...

[cuppa tea]

My son was just like this. Wouldn't be put down, cried alot, wouldn't be held by anyone else, if he was put down in his moses basket he curled up into an angry ball and screamed his head off until he was picked up. Even if he was in the deepest sleep when you put him there he would somehow know he was about to be conned into it. It is very hard work. BUT it passed all on it's own like most things with kids seems to. By about 3 months he had gotten over most of this. He would still cry alot on other people, but he would lie for longer and longer stints and be ok. As he became more independent and could sit up by himself it was loads easier. With him I think it was largely the frustration of being a baby. Simple as that. It's hard on you though. I am hesitant to give advice, but I would invest in a very good comfy sling! It saved my sanity. I found co-sleeping a bit of a saviour too. Also you do have to meet your own needs too. This is very important. We don't live in tribal communities any more where there is always someone there to pick up a crying baby. That's just the reality of it, so I wouldn't give yourself a hard time if she screams all the way through your shower, or while you are on the toilet. It doesn't mean you are a bad mum or it will damage her in any way. My second baby has had to do this much more as there are more people's need to meet and they can't all be met at once. I hate him having to cry, but sometimes there is nothing I can do about it. It will be much easier as she gets older. 5 week old babies are very needy. Hope this helps a little bit.

[trinity]

It's really tiring having to hold your baby all day. I had one of these and it is exhausting so I really feel for you.

Have you tried tight swaddling or a sling. Both of these may help with the sensations that your little one needs in order to feel calm. I am with Fuschia on the fourth trimester idea that some babies just need the sensations of the womb for a bit longer than others so the nice enclosed feeling that comes from being in a sling near mummy, swaddled or just held needs to be continued. Some babies don't need it but it sounds like your little one does.

The other thing that worked for me with a baby I could not put down was a baby swing. I set it up the day it arrived (she was 8 weeks old) and I wept tears of joy because she slept for 3 hours and I could make myself a meal and have a bath without the stress of a crying baby. It doesn't work for everyone but it solved my baby's problem.

[cuppa tea]

Just to add, I had one of these sling as it was fab. Bit like swaddling too. so so comfy:

http://www.mobywrap.com/

[hellosailor]

Thanks Cuppa tea and trinity,

Trinity - she cries if I put her in her bjorn bouncer (you know, the one all babies are supposed to adore!) and I have thought about getting a swing but am confused about the difference between swings/rockers/vibrating chairs. is a swing different from a vibrating chair - is it basically a battery operated chair that swings backwards and forwards?

I've tried swaddling several times, the first time was when she was 3 weeks old and she slept peacefully in her basket, swaddled, for a couple of hours, I really thought it was a miracle! But since then, she hates being swaddled and cries until you take it off, so have given up after several attempts..

When I go out with her I do wear a sling rather than take the buggy and she sleeps happily in that for a couple of hours while I take a walk and do errands, so I was just thinking today that I'd start wearing it round the house more.

Cuppa tea it's reassuring that eventually your little one was okay with being put down!

I'm happy to find more ways - slings, swing chairs etc - to free up my hands as an answer, but just really hoping that if I 'go with' her need to be held constantly for the next few weeks and find ways to accommodate it like wearing a sling all day rather than somehow trying to actually change the habit, then eventually she will be increasingly okay with being put down...

[cuppa tea]

I think you are right hellosailor. I've always gone with the theory that you meet the need and it eventually goes away. Seems to work. Some babies do seem to be needier than other. As long as your back can handle it I would personally go with the slinging. My two have both loved it and it really worked for us. She won't want to be there forever, they will want to get down and explore at some point. When your partner gets home I would strap the baby onto him and have a break though! Once she can hold her head up and her neck is strong you can put her on your back and that is really liberating too.

[trinity]

hellosailor Wrote:

>

> Trinity - she cries if I put her in her bjorn

> bouncer (you know, the one all babies are supposed

> to adore!) and I have thought about getting a

> swing but am confused about the difference between

> swings/rockers/vibrating chairs. is a swing

> different from a vibrating chair - is it basically

> a battery operated chair that swings backwards and

> forwards?

>

> I've tried swaddling several times, the first time

> was when she was 3 weeks old and she slept

> peacefully in her basket, swaddled, for a couple

> of hours, I really thought it was a miracle! But

> since then, she hates being swaddled and cries

> until you take it off, so have given up after

> several attempts..

> When I go out with her I do wear a sling rather

> than take the buggy and she sleeps happily in that

> for a couple of hours while I take a walk and do

> errands, so I was just thinking today that I'd

> start wearing it round the house more.

>

> Cuppa tea it's reassuring that eventually your

> little one was okay with being put down!

>

> I'm happy to find more ways - slings, swing chairs

> etc - to free up my hands as an answer, but just

> really hoping that if I 'go with' her need to be

> held constantly for the next few weeks and find

> ways to accommodate it like wearing a sling all

> day rather than somehow trying to actually change

> the habit, then eventually she will be

> increasingly okay with being put down...

My lo didn't like the bouncer either. We got the fisherprice swing which was an cosy padded chair that dangled from an overhead arm and swung (quite a long way)from side to side. She just couldn't stay awake in it. I guess it provided just the right type of motion she needed to tip her into sleep. She was a much happier baby when she was able to get long good quality sleeps.

You and cuppa tea are absolutely right that if slinging works for you both at the moment keep doing that. As she develops she will cope better and be happier at being put down. Mine hated the sling when tiny (that's why I tried the swing) but loved it when she was older.

Good luck. They don't stay this tiny for long.

[Fuschia]

It will pass

There have been studies that babies who are responded to when they cry end up crying less at 12w, and i think the same goes for any sort of reassurance/response to their needs.. she is learning that fundamentally the world is a good place where there is someone available to meet her needs. You will both reap the benefit of that reassurance for many years to come, long past the velcro baby stage

[Fuschia]

Very good: http://www.askdrsears.com/html/5/t051200.asp

[LSB]

My first was the same and would only really sleep in a sling during the day for the first six months (which probably seems like forever for you now, but I promise, will go very quickly). Then, at around six months, she was perfectly happy to sleep in her cot during the day and, at 2yrs 7mths, still has a couple of hours sleep after lunch every day. I think sometimes they are just not developmentally ready for what you are trying to get them to do and trying to force it just makes me go slightly mad (and is miserable for them) - I found a better reaction was to leave it for a bit and then come back to it every so often and try again.

[buggie]

When putting her down in the moses basket, have you tried shush/patting - literally going "Shhhhhh" and (with baby on side - but with rolled blanket around in a U shape from tummy to back) resting hand on the uppermost shoulder and patting her bum (in a heartbeat type rhythm)?

We did this as well as swaddling from few weeks old, would take sometimes up to 30mins initially to fully settle her (and lots of feeling like we were nearly there and then having to start again/creep out only for her to cry again) but gradually she would fall asleep quicker (and sleep well) and once she was 4.5mths she would occasionally settle herself and now (6mths) we can leave her to settle herself to sleep after a story.

Think the shush/patting works well as you're not immediately breaking contact with the baby - they still know you're there and you can gradually ease away from them (would gradually lift hands off/hover before being happy she was sleeping!). Before having my own baby, had to use this to get babies to sleep in hospital (i'm a paeds nurse)when parents weren't around & so feeding to sleep/rocking weren't options.

[hellosailor]

thanks so much everyone, that's all useful info and reassuring. I'm going to try wearing a sling round the house more and maybe get a swing to see if she likes that better than the bouncer, and perhaps see if she likes her basket any more in a little while, perhaps she just isn't ready as you say.

Buggie, thanks for reply, have tried shush/patting but not with the rolled up towel etc, will try that for sure!