Fed up with other kids in playground!

[Mellors]

Two big school age girls pushing a small 2 year old down the slide (twice) onto her face on the floor and making her bawl is unacceptable. The first time it happened, I asked them to stop it politely. The second time I told them off properly. No idea where the parents/minders were, but nobody came to stop them. I won't avoid the playground, but I do keep my eyes on whats going on.

Peckham soft play (unlike other soft plays in my experience for some reason) can be really rough, especially when the big kids are in there after school or weekends. I just got fed up of schlepping my kids up there only to have them crying 10 minutes later when somebody whacked them in the face or similar. I just can't be bothered with it, and go elsewhere now.

For the record I'm a firm believer in "the school of hard knocks" and genuinely don't believe in wrapping them up in cotton wool, but I can't see how you can stand by and let your kids actually get hurt.

[littleEDfamily]

intexasatthe moment Wrote:

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> It does sound as though LED family have been

> thoroughly traumatised

> I have low low tolerance for bad behaviour and

> have perfected this very passive aggressive

> technique of giving very angry stares to children

> on the brink of feral behaviour. I do detest soft

> play type places and playgrounds for that matter -

> seems to bring out the worst in kids and parents

> (who mostly seem to be doing their best to ignore

> their kids). On the few occasions I have been, I

> spent all my time saying 'hey, watch it.. I'm

> watching you.....'.

> which I think is awful ,what a shame to feel you

> have to avoid playgrounds and soft play .

I am a bit of a misery guts, it must be said! Luckily hubby is the fun guy who likes those places. Also we're really blessed with friends with nice children that my kids play beautifully with while we drink tea/ wine so don't have to run the gauntlet of soft play type places too often.

[????]

of course it works both ways, some of us are happy that we can relax in 'the gauntlet' places with sensible, more relaxed strangers and their generally well behaved children

[Gussy]

I can't wait for that day ???!

[helena handbasket]

Having served time in many soft play places, in at least six cities and two countries, I can honestly say that it is the same everywhere. The kids just go mental and for some reason many parents think it's a place to switch off. Found my hysterical son at the top of one once, he was being used as the floor on a mesh bridge by a couple of dozen school aged children. Let's just say I didn't mince words when I finally found my way up to him and the little jerks were pushing us both out of their way!

That said, I used to take him to Goose Green in the late afternoon when it was heaving with school children, and I was always blown away by how thoughtful and polite they were with my then two yr. old. They were gentle and kind and even let him join in their football games sometimes, making sure that they were careful with him. Kids are generally good, they just get over-excited and need parents to lead the way.

A child who is being dangerous or hurtful just should not be allowed to continue, it sends a terrible message. Would you let your child push YOU off the slide? Or hit and scratch YOUR face? It's just not okay.

It's much worse when the mean children belong to your friends! A very old friend of mine has a four year old that is absolutely diabolical; my son gets nervous just talking about her. She's not just physically aggressive, she also says cruel. He's so sensitive it just destroys him. Her aggressive personality is the nature part, however friend's response is generally along the lines of "I know my kid is no angel but it takes two to fight". Uh, no it doesn't take two for your monster to push my child off the swings, or down the stairs or whatever flavour of the day. It has really put a strain on our 15 year friendship, and I know we are not the only friends who feel this way. But what can you say?

THAT is the child you are encountering at the playground, the one whose mother refuses to believe that their child is misbehaving. Or another "friend" who says "boys will be boys" when the little monster throws toys at my face. Yes my face! Don't see much of them anymore either.

Fortunately I think these parents are in the minority, but I feel sorry for their children because they will really struggle to keep friends once in school.

[Saffron]

Gussy Wrote:

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> my point was, I'm not convinced this

> is NORMAL.

>

> Maybe those that think

> it's normal aren't helping the situation.

Yes, actually it is normal for toddlers/children to act aggressively, sometimes frequently. Children experience the same level of emtion and emotional conflict as adults. However, children lack the capacity to understand and control their feelings (actually, I know plenty of adults who still struggle with this!). It's often a classic case of misplaced aggression. The child is upset by something that happened ealier and later acts out aggressively towards a totally unoffending individual. It can also be the case that the child is simply copying aggressive behaviour seen somewhere else (eg, TV, school etc), without understanding fully the consequences of their actions.

What's not acceptable is for parents to do nothing about this type of behaviour. But if you are the parent of a naturally aggressive child, it's not always as easy to correct their behaviour as simply saying 'No' and taking him/her off the playground. Of course it's damn hard to sympathise when your LO is the one who's just been smacked in the mush!

>

> I wonder if it was always like this or it?s on the

> increase? Are we too lenient these days?

If you look at the research on interpersonal violence in the UK and Western society in general, it has been falling steadily and quite dramatically for several hundred years. This general decline often has often been puctuated with periods of increased violence; however, these are minimal compared to the overall decrease.

It really does seem you've had a run of bad luck, and my heart goes out to you and your little ones. Perhaps you're just in an area with more, erm, shall we say 'boisterous' children? When these children get together at playgrounds and softplays, as others have observed, it does seem to whip them into a frenzy which can result in more aggressive behaviour.

If you have a long morning/afternoon free, you'd be very welcome to join me and Little Saff at the playground in Hilly Fields park. It seems generally to be a little quieter there than eg Goose Green. Pending some better weather, there is a really nice lawn for picnics and general running around with lots of space. And of course you're always welcome at ours for tea and biscuits afterwards.

xx

[cuppa tea]

"It's much worse when the mean children belong to your friends! A very old friend of mine has a four year old that is absolutely diabolical; my son gets nervous just talking about her. She's not just physically aggressive, she also says cruel. He's so sensitive it just destroys him. Her aggressive personality is the nature part, however friend's response is generally along the lines of "I know my kid is no angel but it takes two to fight". Uh, no it doesn't take two for your monster to push my child off the swings, or down the stairs or whatever flavour of the day. It has really put a strain on our 15 year friendship, and I know we are not the only friends who feel this way. But what can you say?"

This is a nightmare when it's friends. I have a sort of similar situation with one good friend, though I have to say it's generally my son who is a more boisterous handful and very reactionary and her son who is more passive, but manages to bait my son pretty well. Have to add i'm not at all condoning any aggression as it's dealt with, but it is soooo exhausting and I am the one doing the telling off constantly. In the end I decided that they just weren't a good match, as he wasn't the same with all his little friends. I think it was making him feel like a really naughty kid when actually they were just a very bad fit for each other. Unfortunately you do have to see people with children that your kids get on with otherwise it's a disaster for everyone.

Also wanted to add that I remember him being around 2 ish and being astounded at the hierachy of the kids at the one o clock club during half term. The big kids were intimidating the little ones of the toys etc etc. Not pleasant. I had to keep a constant check on him. Sure enough as he's approaching 4, bingo, he's one of those big kids at the top of the chain intimidating the little ones off the toys! I stopped taking him in the end as I found the whole thing too difficult. I think actually at this age they are just too old for it anyway and the boredom is another thing that makes them misbehave. These kind of environments do make it harder for the children to be generous and kind. It's very dog eat dog.

[new mother]

"But if you are the parent of a naturally aggressive child, it's not always as easy to correct their behaviour as simply saying 'No' and taking him/her off the playground."

Saffron, I think you've hit the nail on the head. The parents should be doing this - and used to - but aren't. Query why not? Tiredness, lack of patience, lack of other things to do, more and more nannies without a long term interest in the child's rearing perhaps? Fewer relatives around to take off some of the weight of rearing children. I don't know and these are just some ideas but I agree with those who have said that behaviour is worsening.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I do probably come across as over-sensitive, but in my mind, like Mellors said, there is a difference between a bit of 'rough housing' between two toddlers and one older child being aggressive towards a younger child. Seb gets picked on a LOT, and he is really still a baby, so it breaks my heart!

Can also identify with the friends issue. My friend has a lad about two months older than Seb and he is a right little so-and-so, and pushes Seb around/pulls his (lovely and long) hair whenever we go over there. Friend always says 'oh he's VERY protective of his things...' or 'Boys will be boys'. Sorry, but I just don't buy all that kind of reasoning. Poor little S, he just wants to be friends with everyone.

[KatsuQueen]

Ruth, if my friend's child pulled MiniKatsu's hair and my friend didn;t take "strong" action eg "stop that" "don't pull his hair that's very naughty" in a very stern voice, we wouldn't be friends for long! (6)

In fact, depending on how "friendly" we were, I would do the stern voice myself. IF we were really close friends I would feel OK about it; I don;t mind other adults giving MiniKatsu a telling-off if he;'s being naughty! (He pays more attention then, can't just ignore them like his soft-touch Mummy)

HOw old is Seb?

[uppereastsider]

Calling a 3year old a 'thug' at a milestone when they are trying to understand their own emotion, is frankly a bit worrying to read. Physical aggression usually lessens as verbal skills improve, Agressive behaviour must be checked and explained to the child (sensibly)by the parent/carer. This is still normal toddler behaviour, although very upsetting and won't want to see my 2year old daughter pushed around on the playground but surely parent need to show some level of self control -I.e. Not crying along with your toddler?

[zeban]

uppereastsider Wrote:

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> Calling a 3year old a 'thug' at a milestone when

> they are trying to understand their own emotion,

> is frankly a bit worrying to read. Physical

> aggression usually lessens as verbal skills

> improve, Agressive behaviour must be checked and

> explained to the child (sensibly)by the

> parent/carer. This is still normal toddler

> behaviour, although very upsetting and won't want

> to see my 2year old daughter pushed around on the

> playground but surely parent need to show some

> level of self control -I.e. Not crying along with

> your toddler?

(tu)

[Queenie23]

I don't mean to be unsympathetic but for goodness sake! Crying because your 2 year old is pushed over by an older child? Get a grip! Just tell the child that is hurting yours not to do it and move on. And as for following your child around..... If they get hurt by another child you will soon know about it.

[Moos]

If you don't mean to be unsympathetic then don't be.

[Queenie23]

OK. Then all I will say is get some perspective in your life. I've raised three kids, they have been hit by other kids, they have hit other kids. I told them off when they did and I told those that had hit mine not to do so. Quite simple. Get a backbone.

[Moos]

Everyone's different, Queenie, some are more openly emotional than others. I respect your opinion, but perhaps you could consider that your way is not the only way. Or even simply express your views with a bit more kindness and understanding?

[Queenie23]

No one likes to see their child being hit by another child - but all this pontification is ridiculous. We are trying to raise well adjusted confident children here, not children that are as neurotic as their mothers seem to be! All I was saying was get a grip, nothing wrong with that. What a terrible mother I must be then, I just wipe the tears away and say never mind, now go and play. What do you do if your child gets hit by another child - do you whip her up and run home?

[bawdy-nan]

I wonder if its simply the case here that its the less experienced, newer parents who seem to be the most worried and it's the ones with more / older children and more experience that seem to be a bit more sanguine. I don't know if that is the case but, scanning the thread, it seems to be. It is absolutely understandable.

It seems to me that when your child is 2 its almost impossible to imagine what they might be like as an older child, learning how to deal with powerful emotions, rising hormones, will, etc etc. Most kids and most parents, in my experience, are usually pretty ok. Some are rude and seem mean. Most children don't progress in a uniform way: physically, emoltionally academically. Childhood's something of a ramshackle business and children aren't (whisper) "nice". They're just humans learning how to be. They're a mix of mean and kind and rough and gentle but tend to be a bit leakier and less in control of themselves.

It IS horrible when things go wrong but I think its absolutely wrong to assume its crappy parenting. For the record, I think you should intervene but remember that you're the grown up!

[Belle]

Queenie23 Wrote:

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> I don't mean to be unsympathetic but for goodness

> sake! Crying because your 2 year old is pushed

> over by an older child? Get a grip! Just tell the

> child that is hurting yours not to do it and move

> on. And as for following your child around.....

> If they get hurt by another child you will soon

> know about it.

I don't want to speak for another forumite, but as far as I can tell the post you're referring to concerned a child who I know is quite a bit younger than 2, being hit in the head by a 6 year old, so not quite the usual playground rough and tumble we all shrug off. I don't think it's necessarily the physical hurt which is upsetting, or not only that, it's the effect it can have - I know I find it hard to see my son feeling intimidated/threatened by much bigger kids. It can put him off playing for a short while. I know it's a rite of passage blah blah, but I'd hope I could come on here and say that without sounding neurotic.

Following your child around is necessary to a point, not necessarily in an overprotective way, but as much to ensure they're not the ones doing the hitting! Of course there's a balance to be had, and you're not there to help them over each tiny bump on the way (literally as well as figuratively), but it does often tend to be the kids whose parents/carers aren't paying attention who cause trouble.

[Queenie23]

Following your child around is necessary to a point, not necessarily in an overprotective way, but as much to ensure they're not the ones doing the hitting! Of course there's a balance to be had, and you're not there to help them over each tiny bump on the way (literally as well as figuratively), but it does often tend to be the kids whose parents/carers aren't paying attention who cause trouble.

No you don't have to follow your kids around - just watching from a distance is fine actually. Maybe I'm too slummy for this forum.

[zeban]

No you're not slummy Queenie, although if you are then I'd still rather a slummy mummy than a 'yummy' mummy anyday!

I like your balanced views.

[Queenie23]

Thank you Zeban! I like your views as well (especially about secondary schools).

[zeban]

:)

[Ruth_Baldock]

Queenie, I am assuming you are referring to me.

When the 'hitting incident' occurred, my son was still crawling, and still tiny (in my eyes.) To see him crying his eyes out (real tears, unusual for him) in confusion and PAIN (he kept grabbing his head where he'd been smacked) was TOTALLY enough to send me over the edge. I feel physically sick when I think of anyone, whether they're 2 or 6 or whatever hurting him on purpose, and yes I did cry. I don't feel I need to 'get a grip'.

However, whenever he is involved with a bit of 'normal' playground rough and tumble, and he cries, I don't get as upset as I did on that occasion- he normally calms down really quickly. The fact that he didn't the time I wrote about was a big sign that he was genuinely really upset.

[Belle]

Maybe it's semantics. I don't dog my son's footsteps but e.g. in Dulwich Park playground, I have to watch him in case he runs into a flying swing, or, as he did the other day, starts climbing something he can't quite handle yet, and gets to a dangerous height. Some accidents/incidents are preventable. But as I said, it's about balance.