Is there life after east dulwich?

[reren]

Am i alone in daydreaming every so often about moving out of london? I love east dulwich at the moment but i have an idea that maybe i'd like to escape the rat race one day - wondering what places others have imagined moving to? I'd like brighton but the dream involves seriously reducing the mortgage (even mortgage free?) which i doubt we'd do with brighton house prices. Ive wondered about folkestone - super cheap and now on a fast train to kings x - but have no idea what it would be like to live there? Schools etc? Where is there out there with the feel of east dulwich (lively high street, good social mix etc), not too far from london, affordable housing and great schools - ah the holy grail!

[Lochie]

No you are not alone in day dreaming! When our son was under a year I really thought that London would be a long term option for us with regards to raising a family. He was so portable then and could just come in the buggy with us where ever we wanted to go. But now he is a toddler our day activities revolve around him and so I've found that it doesn't really matter where we live - a play ground is a play ground whether in London or deepest darkest suburbia! From that point of view I don't think we can justify even attempting to save up for a very small house/flat around these parts - it doesn't seem worth it when we could get more for our money outside of London.

Re Brighton

My husband and I met at Uni down there and stayed and bought a flat and only moved back to stay with family around here 18 months ago when our son was born. Brighton is a more expensive part of South England but you can get more for your money than around here. We have consdiered going back to the Sussex area in time for primary school age. Though there are some expensive houses in Brighton, you can get some cheapers stuff in lovely family areas that aren't so close to the sea e.g. we recently saw a 4 bedder, ?340k, opposite an 'outstanding' ofsted rated school, near massive lovely park, 20 mins walk from city centre/station. Downsides of Brighton are the huge costs of commuting and the drugs related problems they have in the city centre which make it pretty grotty at times (I don't think people realise how bad this can be unless you actually live there)

Don't know anything about folkstone but am sure the sea air is lovely (and its cheaper!).

I also LOVE Bath but that is a whole different ball game i.e. total move out of London

[Ruth_Baldock]

My husband always talks about doing this, he wants to move to Edinburgh, or somewhere in Scotland in general. I'd go for it if I didn't think I'd be totally isolated because I don't drive.

One of the real possibilities for us was when we were possibly going to move to Toronto, for his work. It didn't work out, but I'd love to make a huge change like that one day. Possibly with a driving license to hand.

[Lochie]

Actually just to add that this is causing a minor conflict between me and my husband as he refuses to live 'in suburbia' and ONLY wants to live in London or Brighton not 'anywhere boring like Surrey' (!!!!). I dispute this and say that there are some nice towns half an hour from London where we could afford to buy somewhere to live. He has agreed to have a look around these towns if I come up with suggestions....but now dammit I can't think of where these actual places are? Does anyone have suggestions for nice towns 30-40 mins commute from London in Surrey/Kent area. Or are they really dull dull dull as he believes they are....(I dont' mind dull as long as they have a nice town centre and good schools, nice parks etc etc)

[Pickle]

Mr Pickle and I never saw ourselves as long term Londoners once we had a family (he's from Scotland, me from NZ) and always assumed we'd move to the "country" once the kids came along.

Funny how things change - lots of friends have moved, sister in law relocated from central London to Buckinghamshire, and we can't think of anything worse. From what I can gather they all feel isolated, SIL now has to drive to meet friends due to remote location (I love that I can walk out my front door to the park and will always see someone I know here in ED). Her husband works in London and due to long hours often misses his last train and has to stay in a hotel, his commute is 1.5 hours each way on a good day and he never sees his children. On a bad day it takes Mr Pickle 30 minutes to cycle home, and he makes it back for bathtime most evenings.

While I can see the benefits of living outside ED, I can't imagine myself doing it.

[bluesuperted]

This is something I think about everyday... I love living in ED but financially, to really enjoy family life here it's kind of out of our reach. The recent threads on secondary school (and of course primary school!) have cemented this thought in my head. As two public sector workers who can in theory work anywhere in the country, I think we would be a little crazy to stay here for the long-term future...

We plan to move out of London, properly out, in the next 3 or so years. We are considering Bristol, to be closer to family (but crap secondary schools in the City and not sure I can face moving back to my toytown home town just yet!), Bath/Somerset/Clevedon, Devon/Dorset, Yorkshire (Harrogate/Saltaire/Leeds environs) or very unlikely Brighton (too far from family to be a great move for us long-term).

I'm starting to think it's like when I worked in advertising too - even the people who I was sure were in it for the long haul were actually toying with jacking it in; recently several of our London through and through friends have 'admitted' (haha) they don't plan on being here in 5 years time and harbour secret dreams of buying a barn conversion in the country...

[Smiler]

We recently moved from ED to Surrey (Epsom Downs), mainly cos of house prices, schools and Mr Smiler feeling cramped in ED and our flat (he grew up in the country). I felt like your husband Lochie, said I would never live outside a city, thought the home counties would be dull etc. etc. but gave in in the end with baby no.2 on the way.

We started with a rail map and worked out where was commutable to central London stations near(ish) our jobs, then did visits at weekends and researched promising areas (with much grumbling from me). Not much fun, but did help to narrow it down.

I wasn't sure at all, really didn't want to leave ED, but am actually really glad we moved and (sorry to be disloyal) don't miss ED much (although I do still like the forum!). We have a much, much bigger place and garden. It's been easy to meet friendly people in the local area, there is lots to do for families and it's easier to get around both locally and further afield by car than it was in London, with less traffic etc. Services of all kinds are less pressured and it is easier to arrange childcare.

The main drawback so far seems to be the commute, which is fine with one person doing it, not so good for two. A lot of people have one person working locally or staying at home while the other one commutes. Think it is a myth, though, that commuters don't see their kids: this might be more down to wider work/life balance issues than commuting per se.

Ruth - I didn't drive before(although I did have a license) and had a real hang-up about it, and am now driving all the time after some lessons and nervous initial journeys, it can be done! It's much easier driving outside London.

ED is a great place, but there are other great places too!

[SarahLP]

Ruth - my hubby and I also have fantasies about moving to Scotland,, but neither of our families are Scottish, so unlikely we'll ever do it! I reckon if you went for Edinburgh itself not driving unlikely to be a problem - the centre is so small everything is walkable, and if you are a bit further out, eg Leith, bus services seem very good.

On the driving issue, I have a licence but hadn't driven for years until baby came along 8 months ago. Now drive several times a week locally (used the rationale to myself that traffic is so bad around here you're never going to have a serious accident, just the odd prang). And due to my sister being very sick in hospital a two-hour drive away also forced into doing longer drives which I hated but managed and felt v proud of myself! So if you think it would make a difference to your quality of life, worth giving it a go. The more you do it the easier it gets, and makes you feel much more independent.

[pebbles]

I'm quite biase as I'm born and bread Dulwich and still have my mum down the road in HH but I can't see us leaving.

My husband is a countryish boy (Northamptonshire) and I think he initially saw us here til kids were 7ish and then moving out to commuter belt however he's fallen in love with Dulwich (maybe that's a bit strong but really likes it!!), realises how extremely lucky we are to still have all my family and pretty much all my school friends still around (his friends are scattered all over the place) and also his hours are pretty long and at the moment he sees the kids most mornings but never in the evenings however if i'm having a shocker of a day he can be home for bath/bed to help however if we moved out this just wouldn't be possible anymore and he wouldn't be able to see kids in morning either.

My brother left ED a few years back to go to near Stratford and he has never looked back and just loves it however he spends most of his time working from home and on the road and only has to come into London once a fortnight so it works well. He does miss being a taxi ride home after Twickenham days out though :)

I do love having friends in the country though so we can visit but we're definitely here for the longhaul.

[new mother]

Any ideas for good places for parents to live? By this I mean mY own parents who are intheir 70s and want to be near their grandchildren. Of course london prices seem high to them so somewhere within striking distance but outside London would be best.

[ratty]

Would like to stay, but like others, as two public sector workers we cannot afford to having just welcomed second baby into the world.

Will be looking at Beckenham / Chislehurst area and will be putting the house on the market in September. Will miss ED, but not the snobbery or the house prices!!

[Bluemum]

Quick tip.

Near Brighton, wonderful young family town: Lewes!

[karter]

ratty, hope you will still post on here if/when you go, your posts will be missed otherwise. :)

There MUST be life after ED though.:)-D

[Lukedaisy]

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Would like to stay, but like others, as two public

> sector workers we cannot afford to having just

> welcomed second baby into the world.

>

> Will be looking at Beckenham / Chislehurst area

> and will be putting the house on the market in

> September. Will miss ED, but not the snobbery or

> the house prices!!

We agree wholeheartedly. East Dulwich is shocking for that.

[zeban]

Yep agree the snobbery and house prices are appalling

[sillywoman]

Snobbery is everywhere, I personally haven't found ED to be any better or worse than anywhere else I've lived. Houseprices?Well it's what you get living this close to London innit?

[Otta]

No it's not. House prices in ed are way higher than surrounding areas, and there is a lot of snobbery. To say otherwise is sure denial. It's a good place though.

[sillywoman]

Thats cos the housing stock is better here, particularly for families, than surrounding areas Otta. There's always a reason isn't there? It's just whether you want to/ can afford to buy in to that reason. Personally I feel house prices here have maybe (surely?) reached optimum level now.

I don't/didn't deny snobbery, just suggested that it's no more or less prevalent here than anywhere else - especially not the places mentioned, Chislehurst, Beckenham, Lewes & the like. Think you might be the deluded one if you think there are places where there's no snobbery. Sorry if you feel your experience of snobbery in ED has been greater than other places, thats not my ED experience at all, but maybe I move in earthier circles than you?

[Otta]

Housing stock is largely victorian terraces built for workers, you'll get a lot more, and a lot nicer for your money in forest hill op sydenham. I don't want to sound like I'm anti East Dulwich, because I'm absolutely not, but I do think people talk it up a bit much at times.

[snowboarder]

Our dilemma over where our next house will be continues. Having skimmed all the school threads I'm unsure whether we can actually stay here and have any certainty over our children's education....or am I being naive and this would be the same everywhere? My husband has a stipulation that we have to be within a reasonable taxi ride of central London (for work reasons) so that limits things somewhat. Like ratty I wonder whether Beckenham direction might do - or would we just be depressed?!? I keep thinking maybe West Wickham as it has a little high street, the primary schools actually have playing fields and there is a swimming pool and coffee shops etc, but then I look at estate agents websites and all the houses for sale are granny houses...and that just seems to suggest the demographic there is VERY different!

[KatsuQueen]

Hi snowboarder, whenever I get depressed reading all the school threads (Minikatsu has just turned two!) I think of all my friends who are having similar woes - having moved away from ED or London. They are also worried about schools; how to get into the "right" school, catchment areas, how terrible the current system is etc etc.

One of my colleagues made a few comments, the gist of which was "you will regret staying in South London. You see those gang kids on TV, those will be the kids your son will be in school with..." Eeek. Last thing I heard, she was getting her son intensively coached to try and get into a grammar school (She lives in Kent I think) ....so I guess the secondary schools outside London aren;t all fantastic then, hmmm?

I have been warned that this topic will dominate the topic of conversation with all my friends for the next 6 years. Now, that is a depressing thought!

[ratty]

A lot of the " right schools" stuff is blown out of all proportion of course. There will be bad kids and good kids in each and every school and our job as parents is to encourage our kids to be the latter and demonstrate the benefits of this. One advantage of living further out of London I would guess is that this choice is reduced or take away. Where I group up my parents had a choice of exactly one school. Did they fret over it?? Nope!!

Quality of schools will not be paramount in my search for somewhere to house my family and watch my kids grow up. It will be the amount of green space around, the biggest house and garden for the money we have (very little) and a general feel for an area. I will trust in my parenting skills to stop my kids going off the rails (or to bring them back when they do); not the right primary school.

[Belle]

ratty Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A lot of the " right schools" stuff is blown out

> of all proportion of course. There will be bad

> kids and good kids in each and every school and

> our job as parents is to encourage our kids to be

> the latter and demonstrate the benefits of this.

> One advantage of living further out of London I

> would guess is that this choice is reduced or take

> away. Where I group up my parents had a choice of

> exactly one school. Did they fret over it??

> Nope!!

>

> Quality of schools will not be paramount in my

> search for somewhere to house my family and watch

> my kids grow up. It will be the amount of green

> space around, the biggest house and garden for the

> money we have (very little) and a general feel for

> an area. I will trust in my parenting skills to

> stop my kids going off the rails (or to bring them

> back when they do); not the right primary school.

Ratty - same here, where I grew up it was just one choice. However, there was no anxiety about whether you'd get a place at that school! That's what worries me here - would be happy with any of the ED schools, just worry we won't get a place at one. I agree parenting skills play a massive part too.

[zeban]

Here here Ratty. I completely agree with you.

[sillywoman]

KQ-There's such a lot of ignorant scaremongering about raising kids in SE London. I didn't want to come here, and actually cried the first time MrS drove me down LL! However, 16 years later I am very glad I trusted him & did raise our family here. We're nowhere near out the woods yet, & so I wouldn't presume to say my kids won't get into any trouble due to living here, BUT . . . so far it's been great. They've all been to the local state schools. They all - from the 7 year old to the 15 year old - have lovely, lovely friends some of whom they've known since babyhood. They don't seem inclined to get into trouble or join any gangs. I don't even think they know of any (I'll have to ask to be certain though - maybe it's not something they'd tell their Mum :-S). And the few times my eldest son has done stuff he shouldn't (cycling very badly on the road) he's been spotted by a friend or neighbour and I've known about it within the hour. You can tell your colleague that they shouldn't believe all they read in the red-tops! Really, Ratty has the right of it.

Otta, you are right of course. You do get more for your money in Forest Hill and Sydenham, but I guess you're paying a premium to buy into the 'community' here which doesn't seem to be quite so cohesive in those places. Of course that might be an attraction in itself to some :)).