North cross road (the plan to extend the pitches)

[cidered]

Did anyone go to the council meeting regarding North cross and the plan to extend the pitches, close it off to cars and open it on a Sunday? What was the outcome?

[edanna]

Recommendations are going to the next licensing committee meeting, which I think is this Wednesday. The extension to 30 pitches has previously been agreed and is going ahead. The recommendations include not to open the Market on a Sunday and to pedestrianise the part of Northcross rd between Lordship Lane and Nutfield rd on Saturdays.

Edited to say the road closure will be on an 18-month trial.

[HelenG]

Hi edanna

I think they said the road closure would be a 6 month trial not 18 months. They normally give trials 18 months but the results of this working or not would be evident after 6 months. Happy to be corrected but that is my memory of the discussion....

Helen

[Sue]

Yes I was at the meeting too and it was definitely a 6 month trial for the road closure.

[MissDumpling]

The Licensing Committee meets this Tuesday from 7pm at the Town Hall. Northcross Road is the last item on the agenda.

[Sue]

That's the Town Hall in Peckham Road, near the South London Gallery.

[edanna]

Mmm, I think the road closure order will be for 18 months but the issue will be reviewed after 6. I knew I should have taken notes!

[Sue]

I made notes, but they just say "review after six months", so I don't know about the road closure order being for longer.

I also have a note that monitoring (traffic counts) would be in two stages and would take the knock-on effect on other roads into account, and that comments/feedback can be made at any time during the six months.

[James Barber]

The licensing committee sat last night. Due to family things I couldn't attend. The licensing committee is a semi judicial committee and is not legally allowed to be whipped along any party lines.

I'm told that the licensing committee Labour members tried to ignore all the recommendations of the Dulwich Community Council that were formed after a very frank public meeting with residents, market traders, shop owners, council officers and local councillors.

They then realised thy'd thrown out any expansion and had an ajournment. Alledgely the Labour members of the committe met privately with council officers. They then found a way to re vote on the issue and voted to review sunday operations in 6 months time. Quite disturbing in that the committee apparently gave the impression to some that it might have been voting along party lines. Equally after so much local East Dulwich consultation to have local views thrown out is very frustrating.

So we will have to ensure the administration gets the message Sunday market operations is bitterly opposed by local residents.

[Amended to correct revote to re vote.]

[Sue]

James Barber Wrote:

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They then found a way to revote on the

> issue

xxxxxx

???

[Miss P]

People in the area have made it very clear that the majority of us (certainly the majority that have been represented at two of the meetings so far), do not want Sunday trading AT ALL.

The Saturday extension of the market and restricting access to North Cross Road from Lordship Lane was fairly inevitable & hopefully wont cause too much disruption or inconvenience, and indeed, the road closure should make the market safer.

The licensing committee seem to be paying lip service to all the comments from locals but are pursuing their own agenda regardless. They promise reviews of the situation in 6 months time, but wouldn't be drawn on what action they would take if there was massive opposition to the alterations, merely that the "trial period" would continue and had to be given time to work. More like time for the locals to get used to any inconvenience before the next stage of interference begins.

I think improving the safety of the market & increasing the number of stalls on Saturdays should prove to be a good thing in the long term, but I can't help being cynical about the future intentions of the licensing committee. They seem to be treating these changes very much as a first step in a much larger overall expansion.

It would be really upsetting if their greed was allowed to spoil the "village-y" feel of the area.

[aspidistra]

James Barber Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> The licensing committee sat last night. Due to

> family things I couldn't attend. The licensing

> committee is a semi judicial committee and is not

> legally allowed to be whipped along any party

> lines.

>

> I'm told that the licensing committee Labour

> members tried to ignore all the recommendations of

> the Dulwich Community Council that were formed

> after a very frank public meeting with residents,

> market traders, shop owners, council officers and

> local councillors.

>

> They then realised thy'd thrown out any expansion

> and had an ajournment. Alledgely the Labour

> members of the committe met privately with council

> officers. They then found a way to re vote on the

> issue and voted to review sunday operations in 6

> months time. Quite disturbing in that the

> committee apparently gave the impression to some

> that it might have been voting along party lines.

> Equally after so much local East Dulwich

> consultation to have local views thrown out is

> very frustrating.

>

> So we will have to ensure the administration gets

> the message Sunday market operations is bitterly

> opposed by local residents.

>

>

Well not just by residents, James. The CC meeting I went to (Feb?) was very clear: the only people who were in favour of Sunday trading were the council officers responsible for markets! Residents, traders and all spoke against.

I'm not a 'local' resident (further away), and came away with the distinct view that I would not support Sunday trading should it arise as an issue.

At the Feb meeting, I was singularly unimpressed by the guy from Southwark responsible for street markets. He seemed a total numbskull (sorry), and their running of the existing market seems anything but effective from all the reports made. Can it really be that he got his own way?

[James Barber]

Hi aspidistra,

I had hoped I'd made it clear that residents, market traders and shop owners were near unanimous against sunday trading.

The council manager involved didn't publicly make any further proposals for sunday trading. It appears to have been led by Cllr Althea Smith with her colleague aligning quickly despite the protestations of the Lib Dem and tory Licensing Committee members who listened to the recommendations made as a result of the public meeting at the Dulwich Community Council.

I'm sure that Althea will be much more helpful when confronted by a lot of residents and councillors giving evidence in about 6 months time. Hopefully the meeting wont be at an obscure location or time to avoid this.

[fredricketts]

As usual the Powers to be are saying, don?t do what I do, you do as I say, all this talk about get the people involved, load a rubbish.

When ever has Southwark Council done what the people want, they screw people?s lives, and think nothing of it; they just seem to want their own way all the time.

It seems to me that they spend more money on Road restrictions, and jutting out bus stops, to cause more congestion on the roads, than they do on doing the pot holes, thousands of pounds wasted on putting three Humps across, knowing full well, cars will be permanently park on two of them, all the time.

I am against extending the market, cutting the road off, and opening on Sundays, Why should the local residents have to put up with these inconveniences to accommodate mainly people from out of the Borough.

All this when we are asked to make Sacrifices for the economy, when in fact Southwark Council have 86 Million pounds in reserve for a rainy day, wonder when that day will be.

[fredricketts]

It would appear that Southwark Council have taken no notice of the local residents, and gone ahead, and done their own thing.

I have lived in Dulwich for 48 years and it is worse now than it ever was.

Typical Southwark Council, We will consult with the public, what a load of rubbish, it?s just another way of saying, we will listen to you and waste public money, but we are going to do what we want and not what the public wants, this seems to be the attitude of all politicians in Government and Council.

Power to the politicians not the people, we just pay for their mistakes, and let things happen. After all, at the end of the day, they just walk away from it, go to a nice home with a nice income and pension, whilst people are trying to find where the next penny is coming from to pay the rent and taxes so heavily imposed upon us, and wasted by Councils and bureaucracy.

[Marmora Man]

I thought yesterday's closing of part of Northcross was a trial to see how it worked.

To my mind it was better without traffic and would be better still if the stalls in that part were to face the street rather than the pavement - makes it easier to buy and easier to pass by. It can get quite tight trying to go one way against the buggy flow beside the trader's pavement queues.

[paragon]

I thought it was great - could walk through it much more quickly than normal!

[Sue]

Marmora Man Wrote:

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would

> be better still if the stalls in that part were to

> face the street rather than the pavement - makes

> it easier to buy and easier to pass by.

xxxxxxxx

I agree. I can't see the point of closing off the road and then still having the stalls facing the pavement so the queues and people chatting just obstruct passers by.

Also surely then you could have more stalls, on both sides of the road, all facing towards the middle of the road?

[Moos]

I agree too. It's very offputting (as a buggy pusher) having to apologise 20 times just to get from the junction with Lordship Lane past Pretty Traditional.

[breadcrum45]

I too think the stalls facing into the middle of the road would be much better. Cant understand how the council have a waiting list, yet there are never stalls solidly all the way to Willows.

Perhaps they should offer a few pitches based on a first come first served basis like Camden.

Also surprised I haven't seen any comments about the road sign on the pavement.

Its right in the middle of the wide section of pavement which I think is really dangerous and not very noticable to drivers.

[RyeSmile]

Hi all,

I hear Northcross rd market is expanding, where should potential new stall-holders apply to the 'waiting list'?

The market was looking very small last weekend or is it me?

Thanks,

Je

[StraferJack]

FredRicketts

It would appear that the council is listening to the public, the public want what you don't - or at least sufficient numbers of them

So you might not like the changes but you can't claim the council isn't listening to the people

[Sue]

StraferJack Wrote:

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> FredRicketts

>

> It would appear that the council is listening to

> the public, the public want what you don't - or at

> least sufficient numbers of them

>

xxxxxxx

Where do you get that idea from?

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

RyeSmile (great name btw) - if you go on the Southwark Council website they have a section which will tell you how to apply. Think the actual office is in East Street (off Walworth Road).

[StraferJack]

@sue. Judging by the posts on here. I'm sure a wider picture would show plenty either way. But Fred has no basis for saying the council doesn't listen