Not swearing infront of the kids....

[helena handbasket]

The fact that people are googling says that there is no one definition for the term. As a non-Brit, I've seen many uses for it but I believe it is the spirit of the use that defines it......... specifically it seems to be used to mark a level of superiority. "Us" vs. "them". It's much like the way my mother-in-law in Sussex used to refer to things as "too common"; a way to make clear that one is that step above. Feels like a hangover from the old (?) class system, this need to identify with one-up rather than be confused as one-down. I'm not speaking of anyone on here, just to be clear.

Just an outsider's observation. I could be full of ........

edited to change my tone

[helena handbasket]

Oops cross posted, but yes Ruth I agree with what you are saying.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Also, it's worth bearing in mind that the post is entitled 'swearing IN FRONT of your kids', not 'swearing AT your kids'. BB, as you have outlined, you have a family history which has a different implication on how you feel re: swearing to the rest of us, therefore your answer would be 'No, I don't swear in front of my children'. Fine. But to imply that everyone who swears within earshot of their children is 'chavvy' and so, moral-less, uncouth, uncaring is erroneous and actually really offensive.

[reneet]

Since its the family room I am going to reserve my comments on what I think about BB 'Moral high ground' take on this issue.

I, like most, grew up in a non-swearing household and had a very strict upbringing/schooling. Only started swearing in Uni. Hubby on the other hand grew up in a more liberal family, swearing is common place in their house and so is arguing. This surprised me as I never saw my parents argue. Whenever we argue I think our marriage is falling apart and on the other hand hubby takes it in his stride as usual and even healthy. My conclusion is I do not want my kids growing up into drama queens like me, going completely mental over common disagreements and arguments (which sometimes involve swearing) I want them to learn that general words gain meaning from context and not in the words themselves, therefore my referring to Mr. R as an 'ungrateful g*t' does not mean the world is coming to an end and I am about to pack my bags and leave. And they she only swears ones a year them so be it.

Having said that there are some swear words that I will not tolerate in my house, the derogative words against people of different race, gender, sexual orientation or social status, regardless of the context.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Good point, reneet! I'm like you, whenever me and Mr B argue I think the world is coming to an end, should I start googling for a divorce solicitor etc, whereas Mr B doesn't ever think that at all. My parents didn't argue, until the very end, so I associated arguing/disagreement with everything going to pot. I too want my children to see that disagreement and rows, as long as they are resolved and each party re-assured and made to feel happy, are totally NORMAL.

One of my husband's friends refers to people who are careful with money as being 'really Jewish', also refers to things as 'gay' a lot. No swear words there, but it's incredibly offensive. Again, I would rather S said 'Oh sh*t' than did any of that, ta very much.

[BB100]

Ruth_Baldock Wrote:

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to

> imply that everyone who swears within earshot of

> their children is 'chavvy' and so, moral-less,

> uncouth, uncaring is erroneous and actually really

> offensive.

It's rather interesting that you are so up in arms about how swearing in front of your kids is perceived by others. Oh, and Ruth, my parents never swore at me. I was trying to offer a child's viewpoint that hearing abusive speech as a child is not pleasant and very offensive. Some recent research on children's views on their childhoods reported that children do not like adults swearing.

[candj]

BB100 wrote

Some recent> research on children's views on their childhoods

reported that children do not like adults swearing.

children also don't like when adults make them eat their veggies... I'm just saying is all. I'd like to think that the occasional expletive isn't harmful especially as children eventually learn them at the school playground. I think all the parents posting on this thread are doing just that rather than subjecting their little ones to a dailey tirade of swear words. Your point is well taken though.

[trinity]

The posts that made me uneasy were not so much the exasperated exclamations of swear words by children - I can see how parents can swear within earshot in those sort of situations.

It was the posts in which little kids were telling people to f**k off or calling people g*ts, that worried me. That can only be because they regularly hear adults or other children speak to each other like that and that seems quite nasty.

I agree with many of the posters in that in the grand scheme of parenting it's not the worst thing you can do but fundamentally it's not very nice and most of us would prefer not to do it in front of the kids.

[new mother]

It was the posts in which little kids were telling people to f**k off or calling people g*ts, that worried me. That can only be because they regularly hear adults or other children speak to each other like that and that seems quite nasty.

Trinity's post (above)

Completely agree. Hearing that sort of langauage from children says a great deal, none of it complimentary...

[zeban]

Reiterating the two posts above. I think it's disgusting if a child tells someone to f off. The comment on the child saying to a nurse 'get off my f-ing arm' is shocking. If I'd been the nurse I would have refused to do anything for the child and asked the family to leave. It isn't funny or clever. It does say a lot about the parents/parenting though!

[reneet]

Oh so now we are not only 'chavy' but also bad parents, because our children swear ones a year or so.

And no one is in any way condoning the swearing, this thread was started for parents to share a 'common' problem of 'loose tongues' that get soaked up by our 'very bright' children's spongy minds. And if you read the posts carefully you will see that the parents state isolated incidences.

If any of you have pre-preschoolers at all you would know that you do not have to repeat a word for them to learn it and repeat it at the most inappropriate time/setting.

Had to edit to try and remain level headed and calm. Wonder why people feel that they can be so judgemental about other people's parenting.

[dully]

reneet Wrote:

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Wonder why people feel that they can be so

> judgemental about other people's parenting.

Because parents are raising people, and those people will be the hub of humanity when we're all dead.

I swear like a sailor and it is completely reflective of a shitty childhood and a bad mindset. These are obviously things

that no one would want for their child. Language is the only real clear indicator for what is going on in a person's mind and if a mind is continually stooping for the lowest, nastiest words it can find instead of reaching for polite and positive language then that is a sorry place for a child to be.

I don't think children should be demonized for swearing, just re educated (conditioned!). I am learning not to swear and I'd be happy if my child learns better than me in oh so many in ways.

[helena handbasket]

I think there is a long bus ride between yelling ?*&! when you slam your hand in the door and pushing your children to moral depravity with the power of a few random words. Children learn to interpret those words through your behavior; if it is a part of your daily language and used violently (as in calling the child a ?uc3ing idiot and such) that speaks generally for the state of the family. Likely children in this situation will have issues deeper than being sworn at.

But as reneet was trying to say (I think) is that this conversation is lacking a sense of proportion. Happy children in happy households are not going to need therapy because mummy has an unfortunate vocabulary when she stubs her toe on the bedpost.

Jeepers.

[zeban]

That's true HH, BUT just because the swearing might not be directed at the children, if the children are swearing at adults doing something FOR them, such as nurses or teachers, to tell them to f off shows a complete lack of respect for people, and quite a spoilt and self centred attitude really.

[new mother]

Because parents are raising people, and those people will be the hub of humanity when we're all dead.

I swear like a sailor and it is completely reflective of a shitty childhood and a bad mindset. These are obviously things

that no one would want for their child. Language is the only real clear indicator for what is going on in a person's mind and if a mind is continually stooping for the lowest, nastiest words it can find instead of reaching for polite and positive language then that is a sorry place for a child to be.

I don't think children should be demonized for swearing, just re educated (conditioned!). I am learning not to swear and I'd be happy if my child learns better than me in oh so many in ways.

Dully, what an incredible post. I take my hat off to you.

Not regarding swearing but Im also learning not to do things, albeit at adult age. Maybe we all are, in our differnet ways?!

[ClareC]

zeban Wrote:

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> Reiterating the two posts above. I think it's

> disgusting if a child tells someone to f off. The

> comment on the child saying to a nurse 'get off my

> f-ing arm' is shocking. If I'd been the nurse I

> would have refused to do anything for the child

> and asked the family to leave. It isn't funny or

> clever. It does say a lot about the

> parents/parenting though!

Prior to passing judgement on people and circumstances you know nothing about, might be a good idea to bother getting your quote correct rather than misquoting adding your own foul (and far worse) language ;-)

Children are like spongues, just because they may randomly come out with a swear word / phrase either in or out of context does not mean they heard or learnt it at home. I have never heard either my sister or her husband swear but my nephew does go to nursery. Doesn't take a brain surgeon to work out it wasn't at home he picked up the phrase he has (fortunately) used once.

Just getting on a bus and walking along the street can subject childre to hearing unpleasant language. When children come out with something innocently, the fact it is totally innocent is surely a sign of good parenting, not the sinister connotations that certain people on here seem to want to imply.

It really makes me laugh how a thread started in jest but covering a serious topic (for which it is useful to know the best way to deal with the ituation should it arise) ends up with posters making insulting judgemental bigoted remarks about people they know nothing about.

My daughter is too young for this to apply to at the moment, however, when she is older I would much rather she came out with a swear word (which I can easily deal with at the time) than became a judgmental bigot. That really would be rather unpleasant, hard to deal with and would seriously make me question my parenting ability!

Rant over ;-)

[ratty]

Oh, this amusing thread was hijacked by the parent police, who of course would not dare tell any of us to our faces that we are bad parents because our kids have uttered swear words.

[quote name=My daughter is too young for this to apply to at the moment, however, when she is older I would much rather she came out with a swear word (which I can easily deal with at the time) than became a judgmental bigot. That really would be rather unpleasant, hard to deal with and would seriously make me question my parenting ability!]

Brilliant!

[zeban]

Sorry Claire I will correct myself as you're right I misquoted by accident, it was 'get off my bloody arm'.

A judgemental bigot! why because I think it doesn't reflect well on parents when a child swears?! I think people are getting a bit overly defensive, understandably so, I'm sure I would too.

I do realise children can pick up language from anywhere so society is also to blame. But in this case I would hope that your reaction to such language would mean that the child wouldn't say it again- and come to understand it's true meaning rather than dismissing it for being innocent. I'm certainly not demonising the child, but it is the responsibility of the parent to teach children right from wrong.

For me, Dully's post sums up exactly how I feel about this subject:

reneet Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

Wonder why people feel that they can be so

> judgemental about other people's parenting.

Dully Wrote: 'Because parents are raising people, and those people will be the hub of humanity when we're all dead.

I swear like a sailor and it is completely reflective of a shitty childhood and a bad mindset. These are obviously things that no one would want for their child. Language is the only real clear indicator for what is going on in a person's mind and if a mind is continually stooping for the lowest, nastiest words it can find instead of reaching for polite and positive language then that is a sorry place for a child to be.

I don't think children should be demonized for swearing, just re educated (conditioned!). I am learning not to swear and I'd be happy if my child learns better than me in oh so many in ways.'

[Bob1414]

I pretend the swearing didn't happen all the time,when he did it.

sometimes my son remember some swear word from some older guy that live around my place.

I used to tell them "Don't swear around my son!!"

[ClareC]

"I do realise children can pick up language from anywhere so society is also to blame. But in this case I would hope that your reaction to such language would mean that the child wouldn't say it again- and come to understand it's true meaning rather than dismissing it for being innocent. I'm certainly not demonising the child, but it is the responsibility of the parent to teach children right from wrong. "

I don't think anyone on here has said anything to imply their reaction would be one which would encourage use of the language, or that they would (or did) do nothing, simply dismissing it as being innocent.

my interpretation is the opposite, the posters do not want their children using such language and deal with the odd occasion it happens appropriately at the time.

However, there is an honest acceptance that although actively avoiding using bad language themselves there are times when they have momentary lapses, doesn't automatically make them foul mouthed or any other names that have been thrown around here by some posters.

There is a huge difference between children innocently saying something they shouldn't with no understanding of what it means or that it is wrong, and those that use bad language with aggression and in context. The former is something I would never laugh at to the child's knowledge, but would deal with appropriately at the time, however, I may well chuckle about it with other adults. Which is what the vast majority of poster on here are doing. The latter I agree is shocking and very sad. Fortunately, in my limited experience, this is rare.

[cuppa tea]

"I do realise children can pick up language from anywhere so society is also to blame. But in this case I would hope that your reaction to such language would mean that the child wouldn't say it again- and come to understand it's true meaning rather than dismissing it for being innocent. I'm certainly not demonising the child, but it is the responsibility of the parent to teach children right from wrong.

Zeban Have you ever spent any time with children ever?! This is all bonkers! If you start telling kids not to use this or that naughty word that is the very first thing they will do! How brilliant - watch mummy and daddy's amazing reaction when I say @?$**!! The only way you can teach children truely is by giving a good example. I just don't think the odd swear word is that bad. If you ignore it and don't act like it's the end of the world and what a terrible parent I must be...they just stop doing it. Swearing can be picked up from ANYWHERE. It's not always a reflection of parenting. And the child saying to the nurse 'get off my bloody arm' is in context, but you know nothing about this child/family. Why on earth is a 3 year old going to show any respect to a nurse who is about to jab a needle in her arm. She's 3! She doesn't know what is about to happen. She is powerless and about to be physically hurt. Ok, so she swore. There are worse words.

[sillywoman]

>

> Dully, what an incredible post. I take my hat off

> to you.

>

> Not regarding swearing but Im also learning not to

> do things, albeit at adult age. Maybe we all are,

> in our differnet ways?!

new mother - you're so right. On this thread I'm learning that a little humility and good humor about my own, and others parenting abilities will go a long way.

[littleEDfamily]

Swearing is not always totally sinister. Although I don't swear around children, my love of swearing is just part of my general love of words. Sometimes, only by swearing can I convey how I am really feeling. My dad always told me not to swear as it implied my vocabulary was lacking, but I disagree, to me they are just words; delicious, descriptive words when used in the right context. I've seen swearers come out of wonderful, warm close families where colourful language is just part of their happy banter. I'd rather a kind, happy swearer for a parent than a grumpy, repressed and holier-than-thou one.

[reren]

Personally i love a well placed f**k! Tee hee!

[trinity]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

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I'd rather a kind,

> happy swearer for a parent than a grumpy,

> repressed and holier-than-thou one.

Is that really the choice you are faced with? I'm pretty sure that kind, happy non-swearing parents exist.