Not swearing infront of the kids....

[Mellors]

BB100 Wrote:

the use of explitives can be the bridge to

> domestic violence.

Surely me saying bollocks from time to time isn't going to mean my husband will start knocking me around? I love a good swear, although do try and save it up for out of earshot.

[pebbles]

When I was younger my two older brothers used to teach me swear words and tell me they meant something else. Apparently we were once in Harrods and I saw a toy horse and started shouting from the top of my voice "i'm a w**ker, i'm a w**ker" - my mum was totally mortified, my brothers giggling with tears running down their faces and there's me thinking i was telling everyone that I liked riding horses :)

[BB100]

Mellors Wrote:

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> Surely me saying bollocks from time to time isn't

> going to mean my husband will start knocking me

> around? I love a good swear, although do try and

> save it up for out of earshot.

Domestic abuse does not always have to be physical. I don't know, I suppose if it makes you feel good, imagine how the other person, and your children may feel, when they hear it.

[littleEDfamily]

I grew up in a non-swearing house - mum mum used to spell B-i-t-c-h if she really didn't like someone. The effect of that was that I never swore as a child and teenager. But..... I have made up for it in adulthood and just love a good swear.

However.... I don't swear in front of the kids. It's just too slippery a slope for me, and although I do find it a bit of a giggle when very little children swear without really knowing what they are saying, when children swear deliberately, I think it's quite horrible.

Taking after my parents, I have become a great speller of swear words. Only have another year or so before the oldest one can spell and I'll have to go cold turkey when they're around.

BB100 - swearing like anything, is about context. Some people swear in the most charming way, and even when it's not charming, I think it's human to need a bit of a release now and then. Other people don't swear at all but come across all aggressive regardless. And there is a massive difference between swearing at someone (you f*cking eeedjit vs f*ck it's hot).

Still, I have to be a nerd and say, don't like swearing in front of the sprogs. And yes, it is hard not to.

[BB100]

Yeah I know there's different contexts but it's just too chavvy for me.

[reneet]

Had to tone down the swearing when at about 2yrs my now 3.65yr old said F***ing h**l in church when a toy shoe did not fit her, right in the middle of a summon. And at 3yrs when she told her nursery teacher to 'f**k off' when asked to apologise after calling a fellow child a 'g*t'. Fortunately those are the only incidences or maybe its a yearly thing.

[trinity]

I am a bit surprised by this thread.

I grew up in a non-swearing household and as a result rarely swear and never in front of children (not even the mildest cr*p). For children to be repeating swearing, they must have heard it a lot in the home which makes me feel uneasy. Adults have a responsility to set an example to children and this includes their language. Is your swearing so ingrained that you can't moderate your language when necessary? I find that very puzzling.

[Belle]

I think people have varying opinions on the gravity of it though Trinity. I grew up in a very sweary househould, and though of course i was reprimanded for swearing, I got in way bigger trouble for saying e.g. 'I hate you' or for lying. My personal view is that any aggressive behavour, verbal or physical, would be something I would disclipine, but that I'm not going to lose sleep over either accidental or more casual swearing. They're just words...if used without an intended 'victim', I'm not that fussed.

[Ant]

The eldest Antling (6) informed me gleefully the other day that kids were using the s-word at school. She asked if I knew what it was but was too excited by the naughtiness of the whole thing to wait for my answer (let me off the hook!) and told me it was 'stupid'. Which is quite sweet on many levels.

edited to add: that angry face was meant to be a six in brackets. Not sure why it came out like that!

[pebbles]

Ant - that really made me giggle :)

[ryedalema]

I agree with Belle - the 'I'm not your friend any more' or fibbing are much worse in my book. Don't get me wrong - swearing gets disciplined (including my husband and myself!) and I try very hard not to do it in front of the girls (not even in the car). But swearing is delicious when no impressionable person is around!

^%*^%*$!"?!$!!!

Btw - my parents very non-sweary and I had a very strict upbringing/schooling. Perhaps that along with my very corporate/pc jobs has made it a tempting 'sin'.

>:D:D<

[The Nappy Lady]

The worst word I ever heard my Mum use, however bad things got was 'Damn' bless her.....afraid it didn't stop me from growing up with a few more, well used swear words under my belt. I don't like it, and HATE to hear children swear (when done intentionally or during moments of conflict etc)....actually what I really, really find upsetting is when I have heard parents swearing at their children e.g. a mother of a 2 year old telling him to "Get an F'ing move on"....I find that truly distressing.

Anyway, my 6 year old is starting to be aware of swear words, knows what some of them are, but knows 100% that you do not use them, thinks some other words which are not swear words are (like Antling), bless her.

My view, is that in the real world there are very few of us who will not issue a few expletives now and again (those that never do...you have my respect). I don't encourage my girls to swear, but I'm sure sooner or later they will. If I had a choice (if only) I'd rather they swore now and again, rather than do drugs, or smoking, or the 100 plus other things I am already fretting about that lie ahead of them.

Although we shouldn't laugh about it (and I don't think anyone on here was suggesting we should), I think it can be genuinely funny when a toddler comes out with a swear word at a totally appropriate moment - i.e. when dropping a toy or something. It can be so hard not to react, because of course you don't want to encourage it, but it is always going to be either mega embarrassing, or funny depending on the moment. My Mum said my older brother went through a stage of babbling "Booger, Booger, Booger" over and over in the pram when he was just starting to talk, and she used to get so embarrassed by it!

I try to stick to "Oh my goodness" as much as I can, but sadly fail waayyyy too often. :-$

[helena handbasket]

BB100 Wrote:

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> Yeah I know there's different contexts but it's

> just too chavvy for me.

I would much rather have my son hear me say the odd swear word then have him learn to say things like chavvy about people. I might hear Thomas and his friends yell "dammit" from the other room once in a while, but I have never heard my son use nasty terms about anyone and he does not know to make value judgments about people. He might hear me lose my cool once in a while and say un-mommy like words, but he has not seen me be unkind to people and to me that's much more important.

I will always feel a bit ugly when I catch myself using bad language, but like Molly said if the worst example I set is to use a naughty word once in a while then I can live with that. My husband doesn't like it, but he can't relate because doesn't show much emotion anyway. So my son sees a mother who is human and at worst (and only rarely) when angry uses creative language to "get it out". It just seems to me that it could be worse, and he could have two parents who don't show their emotions!

Swearing is like so many other things in life: fine in moderation but pointless to say never. As I've always said to my students: if you wouldn't say it in front of your grandmother, think twice about saying it here.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Belle, TNL and H-H, I totally agree with you.

This weekend, I dropped a large glass on the floor and it shattered. Husband and Cheeky S were next door in the living room and I shouted 'Oh for F***s SAKE!!!!'. I could hear S going 'Ooooh' and then joining in when my husband tutted. He always points at me, with a sombre little face, when he hears me swearing out of anger but not in general conversation. Must be the tone of voice I use. I do try to curb my swearing, as does Husband, but I do slip up and to be honest, if S ever swore I'd put him straight, but equally, I'd rather he was letting out a few expletives than the umpteen amount of other awful things he could be doing.

[BB100]

helena handbasket Wrote:

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>

> I would much rather have my son hear me say the

> odd swear word then have him learn to say things

> like chavvy about people. I might hear Thomas and

> his friends yell "dammit" from the other room once

> in a while, but I have never heard my son use

> nasty terms about anyone and he does not know to

> make value judgments about people.

I was referring to chavvy as a state of being and behaviour. Everything we think and say is value laden unless they are absolute truths.

[Ruth_Baldock]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> helena handbasket Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I would much rather have my son hear me say the

> > odd swear word then have him learn to say

> things

> > like chavvy about people. I might hear Thomas

> and

> > his friends yell "dammit" from the other room

> once

> > in a while, but I have never heard my son use

> > nasty terms about anyone and he does not know

> to

> > make value judgments about people.

>

> I was referring to chavvy as a state of being and

> behaviour. Everything we think and say is value

> laden unless they are absolute truths.

Erm, exactly? Aren't you still implying that our behaviour is, and thus we, are chavvy? I hate hate HATE the term 'chav' anyway because it pidgeon holes and has so many connotations. Hell, I even over-heard someone at John Lewis say 'Ugh, I would never buy one of THOSE PRAMS, they're so chavvy!'. ITS A PRAM.

/rant

[MGolden]

See next post

[MGolden]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> helena handbasket Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> >

> > I would much rather have my son hear me say the

> > odd swear word then have him learn to say

> things

> > like chavvy about people. I might hear Thomas

> and

> > his friends yell "dammit" from the other room

> once

> > in a while, but I have never heard my son use

> > nasty terms about anyone and he does not know

> to

> > make value judgments about people.

>

> I was referring to chavvy as a state of being and

> behaviour. Everything we think and say is value

> laden unless they are absolute truths.

So what does 'chavvy' mean? My 12yo (non-swearing (at least in my presence)) son assures me it's value laden and insulting and generally derogatory about people who live in council accomodation. When BB100 initially posted she said she didn't like swearing as (and I paraphrase here) it was too reminiscent of her unhappy childhood where her parents swore. Later it transpires it is because it is 'chavvy' but I really don't understand what she means by the word.

[Ruth_Baldock]

I'd be inclined to agree with your son, but not about it being a derogatary phrase about people living in council accomodation (don't really see why this is 'bad', to be honest...) It's meant to refer to people being a bit moral-less (indeed, someone once asked me if I considered the fact that I wasn't married to my son's father as being 'chavvy'). Perhaps even a bit anti-social? I don't think I'm making much sense.

This is all very convuluted, but here is a good (if not wordy) blog article about it, in terms of discourse (uni hat on!) http://www.bickerstafferecord.org.uk/?p=239

[MGolden]

No you are making sense, Ruth. I don't think my son thinks living in council accomodation is bad (at least I sincerely hope he doesn't). Essentially, he meant that the term is used in a derogatory manner.

On the matter of swearing in front of the children myself and my partner don't swear in front of the children (for me a huge effort!) and like a previous poster our children (8 and 12 years) thought words like 'shut -up' and 'stupid' were swear words. One day my (now 12yo but then)10 yo came home from a summer play scheme and asked me what c*%t meant. I asked him where he had heard it and he replied that a boy at the scheme had asked him if he knew what the 'c' word was. My 10yo then said 'yes, it's crap'. The other boy then said 'no it's not, ask your mum when you get home'. A part of me thought it was really sweet that my son thought the 'c' word was crap but a larger part of me was incensed that this other child was trying to get my son into trouble as most parents would I imagine splutter a bit at being asked the question.

So I said to me son 'when you go back to the play scheme tomorrow, wait until (other child) and you are near one of the staff then say, in aloud voice 'you know you told me to ask my mum what c'*%t means well she said you're one'. No not really, that's what I wanted to tell him but the adult in me won and I told him to say 'you know you told me to ask my mum what 'c*%t is well she said it's a word for vagina and she thinks if you knew your alphabet you would have asked me what the 'v' word was'.

[Ruth_Baldock]

Glad he thinks that way :) It's unfortunate that a lot of other people don't, if you see what I mean. He's very right about how it's used, he sounds like an estute chap!

Also, laughed out loud in a very glamourous manner at your story. Think you handled it exactly how I hope to in the future (my son is only 15months old atm.)

[MGolden]

Thanks Ruth, if only all conversations were that easy though, I fear much worse is to come!

[Otta]

I would much rather have my son hear me say the odd swear word then have him learn to say things like chavvy about people. I might hear Thomas and his friends yell "dammit" from the other room once in a while, but I have never heard my son use nasty terms about anyone and he does not know to make value judgments about people. He might hear me lose my cool once in a while and say un-mommy like words, but he has not seen me be unkind to people and to me that's much more important.

Word!

A couple of monhs back, I was outside my cousins flat in ED, and a couple walked past with their youngish son (approx 7), and woman said to him "God you look such a chav in those trainers". I thought to myself, 1) You probably bought them for him, and 2) how can you say that to your kid?

[BB100]

The term chavvy has undergone some evolution and it's connotations of council housing have been forgotten and is more about a set of behaviours than a person's social-economic situation. The fact you are asking each other what it means and googling it suggests you are anaylsing my comment too closely with a rather rigid out-dated definition.

And yes, swearing does remind me of my parents and before you take the moral highground my parents think it's rather funny we affectionately call them chavs (it's not as bad as what they call each other). But I will take from this that not everyone is keeping up and so will add it to my list of banned words - which sounds like is much longer than most of yours.

[Ruth_Baldock]

BB; Whilst I can empathise about your family background, I (and I think Mrs Handbasket ;) ) had more issue with it being implied that because of a few words, our entire morals/behaviour followed those which are categorised by the ever-changing phrase 'chav'. I think we all know what it connotes, I don't think anyone would give two hoots if someone alluded to their social class, which is a whole other kettle of stereotyping fish, but rather that the implication was that swearing = totally moral-less parents.

I would also like to add that my Rabbi, full of morals, once said 'Oh, fuck, the kosher wine order has been totally bollocksed up'.