Kingsdale

[westof]

Lukedaisy Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Harris Boys temporary site was in Langbourne

> Primary School before they moved to the new

> building. My aunt lives next to Langbourne and she

> said the Harris boys seemed like a well behaved,

> nice lot, compared to the riff raff of Kingsdale

> (her words, she lives there), so it does sound

> like they may well have been picked on .

I've a friend in Herne Hill who made similar comments negatively comparing the smart well-behaved Evelyn Grace children and Kingsdale children. I did have to remind her she was comparing Year 7s (as Evelyn Grace had opened that year) with older teenagers so they were bound to be more subdued in comparison.

[Queenie23]

Debi Wrote:

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> I've just spoken to a member of the senior

> management team at Kingsdale. He has told me that

> there is no truth in this allegation whatsoever.

> They have not given any info to the police because

> they have not been asked for it. They have asked

> the Schools' Liaison Officer and he has confirmed

> that there have been no reports of crimes

> committed by Kingsdale pupils against Harris

> pupils or indeed any one else. I don't know how

> and why, but it is clear that this is a complete

> fabrication.

>

> As for there being problems specific to the older

> cohort, my son is in Year 11 and he was saddened

> that people would have these kinds of perceptions

> about his year group.

>

> I think this illustrates the dangers of the rumour

> mill, particularly at times when so many parents

> are already anxious.

Debi. There is being loyal and there is being completely blind!! - Why are you accusing the Police community support officer of lying??? The incident happened - deal with it. It's not unusual for trouble at bus stops between groups of secondary school kids from different schools- You are trying to pretend that out of the thousand or so Kingsdale children there are no bad apples - what rubbish! I admire your loyalty to Kingsdale but there comes a point where you have to put your hands up and admit that it is like any other school - good kids and not so good kids.!

[Debi]

Queenie - of course I don't deny there might be less than perfect behaviour from Kingsdale pupils, any more than there might be from children at any other school. I was responding to specific accusations made here in this thread about recent incidents involving older Kingsdale boys mugging Harris boys.

'The incident happened - deal with it.' But this is where you're wrong, I'm afraid. There have been no reports of any such incidents according to the Senior Management Team at Kingsdale AND the School's Liaison Inspector. I am not accusing any specific person of lying, either the commmunity support officer who supposedly made this allegation or the person reporting it here. I am, however, dealing with facts and that is that, according to the post, Kinsgdale had been co-operating with police and had provided names and addresses of the alleged culprits. This quite simply has not happened. The school have gone to the trouble of checking with the Inspector who has confirmed there have been no such incidents or complaints.

I do know that Kingsdale pupils are no better or worse than otherss of their age. However, I'm not going to stand by and see unfounded accusations, with absolutely no basis in fact, being thrown around without responding.

I repeat: the official line from both the police and the school is that there have been absolutely no reports of these alleged incidents ie they did not happen. Deal with it.

[Queenie23]

" Interestingly their resident Police Officer , whom I'd always noticed outside, and had lead me to assume they must be a wayward bunch, reported that the main security problem is the high level of muggings the boys have been victims of, mainly committed by older boys from Kingsdale! "

Quote from someone who attended a meeting at harris Boys.

Why would they lie? Why would the resident Police Officer make that up?

[Debi]

So, by definition, you are accusing the member of the SMT at Kingsdale and the School's Liaison Inspector of lying re these accusations of recent incidents? Is that what you are saying?

I can't speak for the motivations of the original poster or, if it is true, the police officer quoted. I can only present facts.

I repeat again: the official line from both the police and the school is that there have been absolutely no reports of these alleged incidents. This is reliable info from named sources, both in the school and with the police. Anything else reported here is nothing more than unfounded rumour and accusation.

[prickle]

Debi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I've just spoken to a member of the senior

> management team at Kingsdale. He has told me that

> there is no truth in this allegation whatsoever.

> They have not given any info to the police because

> they have not been asked for it. They have asked

> the Schools' Liaison Officer and he has confirmed

> that there have been no reports of crimes

> committed by Kingsdale pupils against Harris

> pupils or indeed any one else. I don't know how

> and why, but it is clear that this is a complete

> fabrication.

>

> As for there being problems specific to the older

> cohort, my son is in Year 11 and he was saddened

> that people would have these kinds of perceptions

> about his year group.

>

> I think this illustrates the dangers of the rumour

> mill, particularly at times when so many parents

> are already anxious.

Debi

You said on another thread that 'I wouldn't say that I have influence at the school, any more than any other parent.'

However? you have a direct line to a member of the senior management team at Kingsdale after 9 in the evening - that sounds like a LOT of influence!

Debi, please out yourself - what is your role at Kingsdale??

[Debi]

I have said I don't know howe many times that I have 2 children at the school and that I am secretary of the parents' forum. Ask many Kingsdale parents and they will tell you it's not unsual to receive phone calls from staff at weekends and late in the evenings. I've received emails sent in the early hours of the morning! Please don't look for hidden agendas; mine is absolutely transparent.

Let's go back to the specific allegations made about recent reports of muggings by older Kingsdale pupils against Harris boys. IF the community police officer reeally did say what is reported in this forum, it is highly unprofessional and I expect there will be consequences. I have had dealings in the past with these officers and know that they take great pains to be seen as impartial, which is exactly as it should be.

Now let's look at the person who made these accusations on the forum. They registered here on 10th March and have posted 3 times, twice to make these allegations about Kingsdale pupils. In other words, they have no visible history and it's impossible for anyone to know what their motivation might be. I, however, have been a member of EDF for many years and have frequently posted, not always about Kingsdale. I use my real name, as I have said elsewhere, and can be easily identified.

Please don't get distracted with trying to work out my angle or catch me out. It's a waste of time and energy and distracts from the real point ie that someone has made specific unfair and unfounded maliciious accusations, to which I have responded.

[Queenie23]

Can you be specific as to who you are referring to re making allegations please. I was quoting from another thread. That is all I was doing - and someone is lying obviously be it Kingsdale or harris Boys.

[Debi]

I am referring to the quote you gave from that other thread because there's an alternative - that person made the allegations and could be the one who has something (I've no idea what) to gain from making unfounded accusations. As far as I can see, no one has suggested that Harris themselves backed the allegations and, as I said, I doubt if the community police officer would have made these remarks. The only person here who cannot be identified and is unaccountable is the person you quoted.

[BB100]

prickle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Debi

>

> You said on another thread that 'I wouldn't say

> that I have influence at the school, any more than

> any other parent.'

>

> However? you have a direct line to a member of the

> senior management team at Kingsdale after 9 in the

> evening - that sounds like a LOT of influence!

>

As Debi says, parents can more or less contact Kingsdale staff at any time of day or night. I don't think they ever go to sleep.

[h1981]

Debi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

>

> Now let's look at the person who made these

> accusations on the forum. They registered here on

> 10th March and have posted 3 times, twice to make

> these allegations about Kingsdale pupils. In

> other words, they have no visible history and it's

> impossible for anyone to know what their

> motivation might be. I, however, have been a

> member of EDF for many years and have frequently

> posted, not always about Kingsdale. I use my real

> name, as I have said elsewhere, and can be easily

> identified.

>

> Please don't get distracted with trying to work

> out my angle or catch me out. It's a waste of

> time and energy and distracts from the real point

> ie that someone has made specific unfair and

> unfounded maliciious accusations, to which I have

> responded.

It is with a certain degree of trepidation that I am joining this debate, however I feel I need to defend the original poster referred to by Debi. I know her and she joined the discussion on the forum with no other motive other than to share her current experience on the hot subject of secondary schools. The accusations were not unfounded. They were brought up at a Harris Parents forum meeting - she was merely reporting what was said. I think any truck with the "accusations" should perhaps be solely directed at the school or the "resident police officer".

[Debi]

Skittler - no need for trepidation as far as I'm concerned. I have never personally attacked or made accusations against any individual posting on this forum, nor would I. I have also never said anything negative about other schools, but have only defended Kingsdale against attacks by others.

Given that there has clearly been misinformation circulating here, and that can have very unfortunate consequences, I hope you can understand that there could be suspicions about the source of the rumours. Unfortunately, something has been said here on the forum and many people seem to have accepted it as fact.

It's now clear (or should be) that there is no truth in the accusation that there have been recent arrests of Kingsdale pupils for mugging Harris boys. I do think it's a real shame that these allegations have been accepted and repeated by some people and it does remind us all that we need to be very careful about what we post here. Personally, I think that people posting about contentious issues under pseudonyms can lead to them believing they can say anything without thinking about the consequences. But that's another issue - I only mention it because it provides the background to my suspicions about the original poster.

I certainly agree that there needs to be further investigation about the original source of this misinformation. I'm sure that both Kingsdale and the police will be taking the matter further.

[prickle]

BB100 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> prickle Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Debi

> >

> > You said on another thread that 'I wouldn't say

> > that I have influence at the school, any more

> than

> > any other parent.'

> >

> > However? you have a direct line to a member of

> the

> > senior management team at Kingsdale after 9 in

> the

> > evening - that sounds like a LOT of influence!

> >

>

> As Debi says, parents can more or less contact

> Kingsdale staff at any time of day or night. I

> don't think they ever go to sleep.

Is that really true? Do all the parents have personal phone numbers of all the members of staff? If so, that's really amazing!

[BB100]

The staff have school mobiles but no, parents don't have all their numbers but I have acquired a couple, including the school bus attendents. You can contact staff by ringing the switchboard and they will put you through to their mobile if necessary.

[Queenie23]

No arrests - but we have not cleared up if the Kingsdale boys are mugging the Harris Boys. Harris say they are, Kingsdale say they aren't.

[DenmotherSmith]

Oh where to start..... I've read all the posts here re. Malicious accusations against kingsdale pupils and have decided with trepidation to clarify my position. The meeting I attended was on Wensday the 9th of March at HArris Boys parents forum. The second item othe agenda was security, presented by PC Marcus Kudliskis, it discussed how several boys from Harris boys had been the victim of street robbery, he said that the perpetrators of some of these robberies were older boys from Kingsdale. When questioned by a parent as to what the reaction had been from KIngsdale school and it's Police Officer he replied that they had been fully compliant in supplying information on the perpetrators but could not comment on any sanctions taken by the school. The meeting was minuted and open to any parent or carer to attend. I think that the school nor the police officer should have issue with me repeating what was said here. I was simply posting information I had been surprised to hear, no malicious intent to discredit Kingsdale school at all. I think it's a great school and would have been delighted to have my son go there. Every school has rogue elements, it would not put me off a school to learn that one or two pupils had behaved criminally. I attended the meeting with another another parent with a child in year eight at HBAED and I know I did not miss hear what was said as we discussed the subject on our way home. If the officer spoke out of term or misinformed those at the the meeting I believe Kingsdale have every reason to kick up a fuss.

I not an east dulwich local and have only recently joined the forum as wishing to join a discourse about Harris Boys School as my son has been offered a place there. I also posted about Marie stopes clinic in the vecectomey thread and no I do not have an undisclosed desire to promote the chop for the men of east!

Nad

[Debi]

I for one appreciate you coming here to clarify further.

My point is this: I have always had trouble understanding why some people feel unable to support one school without putting down another. If you're new to the area, you won't know that there has been a long history relating to public perceptions about Kingsdale and these not being matched by the reality. I hope you can understand why I thought this was more of the same, possibly by someone who had posted with another name at other times. I accept that you posted here in good faith, unaware of the history and background and therefore not knowing the likely consequences.

The thing is that I only ever post here about Kingsdale. As an active parent of 2 children at the school, it is the only school I feel qualified to comment on. By definition, anything I say about another school can only be hearsay.

But look! It's clear that there is a need for more than one or two good secondary schools in the area. And it seems we DO have more than that. So let's all celebrate that and stop building up one school at the expense of another. As I've said before - we're not in competition with each other.

BTW - as you have given the name of the officer concerned, I'm sure the school with now follow up this lack of professionalism on his part.

[prickle]

Denmothersmith wrote "The meeting I attended was on Wensday the 9th of March at HArris Boys parents forum. The second item othe agenda was security, presented by PC Marcus Kudliskis, it discussed how several boys from Harris boys had been the victim of street robbery, he said that the perpetrators of some of these robberies were older boys from Kingsdale. When questioned by a parent as to what the reaction had been from KIngsdale school and it's Police Officer he replied that they had been fully compliant in supplying information on the perpetrators but could not comment on any sanctions taken by the school. The meeting was minuted and open to any parent or carer to attend."

Debi wrote "BTW - as you have given the name of the officer concerned, I'm sure the school with now follow up this lack of professionalism on his part."

I am sorry but I do not get this. If this meeting was an open forum and it was minuted, then why do you think that the PC behaved with a lack of professionalism. Unless you are accusing the PD of making up the story, surely it is a part of the community police's job to communicate with the community?

[FatherJack]

Perhaps Kingsdale do not divulge (quite rightly IMO) every incident to parents until a full and proper investigation

has taken place and there is a case to answer. And at such time the parents who should be informed are

those directly involved.

Do we really want/need to know EVERYTHING that happens in/out of schools?

At the Harris Parents Forum it was on their agenda and I'm sure they had reason for this, perhaps it may appear on the next Kingsdale Parents Forum if necessary.

Debi, you are quite clearly passionate about Kingsdale and very supportive of the school but this doesn't mean that Kingsdale tell you all you want to know, especially if it doesn't involve your children directly.

[Queenie23]

Debi Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I for one appreciate you coming here to clarify

> further.

>

> My point is this: I have always had trouble

> understanding why some people feel unable to

> support one school without putting down another.

> If you're new to the area, you won't know that

> there has been a long history relating to public

> perceptions about Kingsdale and these not being

> matched by the reality. I hope you can understand

> why I thought this was more of the same, possibly

> by someone who had posted with another name at

> other times. I accept that you posted here in

> good faith, unaware of the history and background

> and therefore not knowing the likely

> consequences.

>

> The thing is that I only ever post here about

> Kingsdale. As an active parent of 2 children at

> the school, it is the only school I feel qualified

> to comment on. By definition, anything I say

> about another school can only be hearsay.

>

> But look! It's clear that there is a need for

> more than one or two good secondary schools in the

> area. And it seems we DO have more than that. So

> let's all celebrate that and stop building up one

> school at the expense of another. As I've said

> before - we're not in competition with each

> other.

>

> BTW - as you have given the name of the officer

> concerned, I'm sure the school with now follow up

> this lack of professionalism on his part.

Sorry - Have I missed something? I didn't realise we live in a Police state.Why on earth can't the Police officer speak the truth without a threat of the wrath of Kingsdale coming down on his head - these incidents (unfortunately) are not unusual between groups of secondary school children (since time began) so why on earth should the PC be silenced?

[Debi]

Schools liaison police officers have a duty to remain impartial and objective (as has any police officer). I know from my own experiences (completely unconnected with anything talked about here) that schools officers have to take great care to be seen to maintain this impartiality. Thankfully, we don't live in a police state. We live in a country where people are innocent until proved guilty. It is absolutely fine for the officer involved to talk in the context of that meeting about specific problems faced by Harris boys. It is quite another thing to make specific allegations about children at another school. In any case, the fact that at least a part of what this officer said has turned out to be inaccurate (ie that there had been arrests and that Kingsdale had been involved with identifying pupils and providing their addresses) has to also cast doubt on anything else he said at the same time in my opinion.

Father Jack - you said '... this doesn't mean that Kingsdale tell you all you want to know, especially if it doesn't involve your children directly'. Absolutely right. I wouldn't expect them to. However, what I was categorically told was that there was no truth whatsoever in the allegations made at that meeting and subsequently reported here and that this had been checked with the Schools Liaison Inspector. This was general info, not pertaining to any named children. It's not a matter of me being told 'what I want to know'.

I honestly don't get why people are focusing on this instead of on the other part of my comment that has been quoted ie 'It's clear that there is a need for more than one or two good secondary schools in the area. And it seems we DO have more than that. So let's all celebrate that and stop building up one school at the expense of another. As I've said before - we're not in competition with each other.'

I'm not going to comment any further on the issue re this officer. The matter will be dealt with on an official level, by the people and institutions directly involved.

[Lukedaisy]

Debi you sound like a nightmare :-S

[Dorothy]

Would be very interested if, in due course, someone could post the truth of the matter on this thread.

Meanwhile, I am engaged on another forum with people from Wandsworth, who want to know how they can enhance their chances of getting their children in to Kingsdale.

Maybe I am truly at odds with the majority of the population (I don't think so) in wanting and expecting my children to go to a co-ed state school in the neighbourhood where they actually live.

[FatherJack]

Ahhh Dorothy, you and me both!! Wandsworth??????

Arrrrrrrrrrrghhhhhhhhhhhhhhhh

[Eliza.D]

I don't often post on the forum but have read all the posts on this subject so now feel that I would like to add to the discussion.

I do have a child at Kingsdale but would like to say that when he was offered a place he was also additionally offered a place at Harris EDA(being the first year entry of the new School)

I would have been very happy for him to attend Harris, I even posted on here to get some views of fellow formites. One person (can't remember the name)suggested I ask my child which was his choice.Idid ask,and he said Kingsdale.

He has been very happy at Kingsdale.

He has friends at Harris. His friends(and the parents) are very happy with their choice.

Isn't it great that there are choices for parents?

I have asked my son if there has been talk of muggings on Harris boys by Kingsdale boys and his reaction was astonishment. He has heard nothing of the kind. I asked him if his friends from Harris had mentioned such incidents and again point blank no.

Debi has been very fair in all her comments and any negative comments on her input is not justified.

I think it is sad that this thread has taken this course because Kingsdale has done an incredible thing in turning a School you wouldn't touch with a barge pole to a School that is popular because it is a good School.

Equally Harris EDA was a much needed School and is still getting the confidence of parents making Secondary School choices.

I for one hope that all our Southwark Schools improve and give our children the best start they can.

Lets not pitch one School against another.