parent and child spaces in sainsbury's car park

[Indiana]

Buggie - just do what I do when the spaces are full and double park further away. There's usually lots of space further back and I simply park across two bays so I know I will have enough room to get my baby out and won't get a car parking right against the door.

Easy.

[Zaardvark]

Hi,

Just to point out that "damnably rude" was used in reference to Loz's use of "..park wherever you *damn* well like..."

(my asterisks)

Z

StraferJack Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I don't think people are arguing about parking

> spaces as much as they are about a sense of

> entitlement

>

> "sense of entitlement" - really is the phrase of

> the times isn't it

>

> I also read Loz's post as a slightly acidic but

> witty response to a non-problem. To get upset or

> get offended by it demonstrates a thinness of skin

> I would be alarmed about. "Damnably rude" just

> seems to be a disproportionate response

[Damian H]

buggie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> I'd have no problem with the spaces being further

> away, for me it's purely that I need space to open

> the passenger door enough to be able to get my 10

> month old out of her car seat and know that it

> won't get blocked in while I'm in the store. Half

> the time there isn't any space available and I do

> end up at the other end of the store.

>

> I'm afraid even after 6 pages of this thread, I

> still don't understand why there is such a hoo-haa

> about the provision of these spaces and the

> mentality of those who park in them without

> children - what makes them so special to take

> something that isn't for them/why can't they

> respect those it is provided for?

I think a simple summary of the mentality you don't seem able to grasp is that they wonder what makes you think you are so special as to expect special treatment to the detriment of others due to the fact that you have chosen to have children and take them shopping with you.

[Earl Aelfheah]

If you have a baby, or a young child and baby, then it can be pretty difficult getting them out, holding them whilst locking the car, carrying them to a trolley, getting the trolley out whilst still holding them, then getting your kid in etc. It's even more difficult on the way back, with the shopping as well. Having a slightly wider space, close to the 'car seat' trolleys and not too far from the store can be a real help. Sainsbury's recognise this and so designate a relatively small number of spaces for young famillies and locate special trolleys next to them. It's frustrating when you see a young, able bodied person swoop in and park there because they're just too lazy to walk a couple of extra metres and have no desire to understand some of the logistics of shopping with young children. That's a sense of entitlement. It's clearly not the most important issue in the world, but for some it's an irritant and they are perfectly entitled to discuss it. If it doesn't bother you, if you're not interested, then why would you even bother to comment?

[Earl Aelfheah]

Damian H Wrote:

> I think a simple summary of the mentality you

> don't seem able to grasp is that they wonder what

> makes you think you are so special as to expect

> special treatment to the detriment of others due

> to the fact that you have chosen to have children

> and take them shopping with you.

I think you'll find that Sainsbury's are the ones who have designated the spaces for the use of 'parent and child'. If you fell that by doing this, they have somehow breached your rights as a childless person, why shop there.

I dont' get the arguement that says "why don't you just park further away" and at the same time rails against having to park a little further away oneself. It seems to me that if Sainsbury's wish to offer customers with small children a little assistance in this way, it's up to them. Why would anyone without children resent it unless particular bitter or lazy?

[buggie]

Damian H - I'd love to say that it's all because of me that those spaces are there & that I am that special, but sadly not.

I'm just a regular woman (you wouldn't even suspect anything amiss if you saw me) who shock horror has a baby.

Shockingly, shopping in the day (maybe even when you're at work) with my baby makes good sense time management wise, but, it's frowned on to leave babies in the car so I need space to get her out - at only 10 months she's not quite sussed getting in & out the car on her own you see. Unlike you, sainsburys have seen this & so decided to help.

Am sure in real life you're a decent bloke would be keen to help make life easier for someone who appeared to be struggling but your online persona here is coming across as a bit of a git.

[Indiana]

Well put Buggie.

[treehugger]

Seconded Buggie

[civilservant]

thirded, buggie

[ClareC]

Fourthed!

[DaveR]

I agree, and I'm not so sure about 'in real life' either...

[Damian H]

Oh no, I am outnumbered by a coterie of EDF'ers so that is obviously more important than real life.

I suggest that you all read back over the 6 or so pages of discussion earlier and you will probably find plenty of evidence of a number of people who might be saying and seconding, thirding, fourthing etc the same comments about you....in real life! I am sorry if you are so deeply offended about having such a perspective summarised for you.

As has been pointed out umpteen times in this thread, people have survived for decades without needing special parking places (some people even manage to shop without a car and with children!!!) and the simple, unavoidable fact is that there are probably many many individuals with or without cars who struggle much more to access shopping than you do. Equally, every time you privilege yourself in this way, someone else is inconvenienced - perhaps mildly but inconvenienced nonetheless.

Guess what - I don't have a car. I do all my shopping on foot. Even when I am utterly exhausted from a hard day's work and travel I still manage. I carry my bags of shopping ( as well as my work equipment) home with me or struggle on a bus to transport them. I end up with plastic bag handles cutting into my hands, sore feet and do my shopping at busy times frequently because, as you correctly observe, I earn a living during the day. I tend to put up with that and, believe me, a daytime shopping trip with the luxury of any type of vehicle, parked in any type of parking space, with or without a child, would be a luxury by comparison.

I appreciate that there is a tendency amongst many in ED to think they are the centre of the universe, entitled to have their every whim served and satisfied without even casting an eye to see or taking a moment to think about what their self-centred world view actual means to others who share the same space and amenities. Take a look on LL to see how many of the bars and cafes are enlisted to serve as surrogate kindergartens, often to the chagrin of the staff there who have to clean up the mess and to the the great inconvenience of other patrons who perhaps want a quiet sit down in a primarily adult environment without having to listen to screeching children hammering table tops with spoons and navigate an assault course of buggies. I see these other patrons routinely and speak often to the staff who may be too polite to say anything to the faces of the said parents but believe me many are pretty disgusted. Add to that the tendency of droves of buggie pushers to walk down the road two or three abreast waiting for pedestrians to step into the street or a shop doorway to let them pass and you have pretty compelling evidence of presumptious, me-me-me, selfish entitlement by a bunch of what could be fairly classed as "gits".

In light of this routinely experienced behaviour which, when challenged, evokes a shocked and pompous indignation - you might get some appreciation as to why there are some people who are not immediately moved to tears by your terrible ordeal of struggling to find a parking space.

Instead of labelling such people as "gits" you might want to consider how the behaviour referred to above could be addressed in order to make it more likely that your terrible plight would be more sympathetically heard by the community at large.

[Frankito]

Git is such a compliment these days.. I salute you!

[BrandNewGuy]

Back to the point and a simple question: why did Sainsbury's put the parent and child spaces right next to the entrance? A mere fifty yards more away from the entrance and lazy (non-child) drivers wouldn't use them. Am I missing something?

[Damian H]

That would be a good solution indeed. And why not just label them as 'larger parking spaces' thereby making them available to anyone who wishes to have a bit of extra door room (such as someone who maybe stows their shopping in the back seat of their car ro who wants room to bring the trolly alongside).

Equally, a polite notice simplky asking the question "Wide parking space. Please consider whether there are others who might need it more than you." might do the trick a bit better than prohibition and demand.

It is this selfish, "I have children so I am special and no-one else's interests count" mentality and the anti-social (yes, I said 'anti-social')behaviour and indignation and affected grievance when others who have their own challenges, pressures, rights etc don't kow-tow to the sacred cow of someone else's supposedly superior rights, that really pisses others off and is almost guaranteed to create resentment.

Courtesy, civility and community-mindedness are qualities that should be supported by all and benefit all but I am afraid on issues like this it seems very much to be a one-way street with an appalling sense of self-centred entitlement and contempt for the interests of others bei ng exhibited by many of those who think that anyone without children in tow is a second class citizen.

[Indiana]

Damien H - you have made me laugh out loud.

Not for the right reasons I may add

[civilservant]

Damian H, I too do not drive and I too do my shopping on foot, and yes, I too "end up with plastic bag handles cutting into my hands, sore feet and do my shopping at busy times frequently because, as you correctly observe, I earn a living during the day."

But unlike you, I have a small child. so in addition to working full time, I have the additional burden of ensuring that she is fed, clothed and properly 'parented'. I suspect that you do not have any children yourself, as you don't seem to be aware of exactly how much hard work that is.

(I admit that I am lucky enough to have a partner who does drive and who does much of the family shopping. But he has no problem with parking in an 'ordinary' space, because he knows from experience how much they are needed by people with very small children (or people with a disability, for that matter).

Yes, at times, ED can seem like a hideous amalgam of Nappy Valley and the Stepford Wives. I know exactly what you mean. But I'm not going to insist that everyone with small children be banished to some sort of kinder-ghetto or be made stay at home because of the inconvenience that prams and buggies and babies might cause to the child-free.

My child is now just old enough to be a good and caring younger member of the ED community. What helped to make her so was every little bit of help that I had from the community when I too was pregnant or pushing a buggy. So there is a return on your investment of patience and sympathy, but it's a long-term one, and you've got to be prepared to wait.

[northlondoner]

Damian H. Correct analysis re off-putting sense of "entitlement " espoused by so many ED parents. They should get a grip . However ...

Civilservant . Persuasively argued and charmingly put. I am now undecided.

[Huguenot]

Nobody really thinks mother and baby slots are anything other than a marketing exercise by Sainsbury do they?

[buggie]

If they were only done by sainsburys then yes, but it isn't exclusive to them, isn't even a recent development.

(v well put civilservent as well).

[quaverflava1]

Oh deary me Damian Damo Damy honestly, i think you're missing the point here, that there are parents with children who are having their pretty basic and not unreasonable human need to a wider car parking space pilfered from them. These poor poor honest and good people with youngish children who are already inconvenienced by the shock of their offspring?s invalid status, are having the heinous burden exacerbated by these calculating, callous and cold hearted 'humans? - and I do use human in the loosest sense of the word - stealing their rightful place in the car park. Now I know this is the most blatantly obvious response one can make but you obviously don?t have children otherwise you'd appreciate how horribly hard and difficult the daily struggle is of having them and don?t try and say that the many plus point of having them far outweigh the bad, personally if I knew I couldn?t have my special space I probably wouldn?t even consider having them. And what?s more to try and make out that these most sacred of people in our society high up on their rightful plateau should perhaps have a bit of perspective when it comes to their demand for slightly wider spaces being exclusively available to them is pretty much verging on genocide in my book buddy, you may well think its a small and trivial thing to get so worked up about and maybe they should just try cheering up a bit and getting on with life, but I really think it literally separates us from the savages.

I know to even suggest that we could do anything about it ourselves would massively underestimate the depth of the atrocities being committed in those all too few spaces in front of Sainsburys but we could perhaps until Monday when parliament can be recalled, contact the police and ask if some of the extra police officers in London at the moment could be allotted there to protect parent and child parking spaces, at least until the point when some sort of constitutional change can be established on their entitlement and right to exclusively use up more space when they park than others. My thoughts are with all of you until this travesty is addressed x

[Huguenot]

I don't quite get what you mean buggie - the fact that more companies than Sainsbury do it doesn't mean it's not a marketing exercise surely?

They're not legally obliged to do it are they? Did I miss some legislation? Are young mums now considered disabled?

[Senor Chevalier]

Pretty broad definition of marketing. If they fixed the bus lane up DKH would that also be marketing?

[Alan Medic]

Having watched women try to park I always thought the larger spaces were to give them a better chance of getting it right.

[Senor Chevalier]

Gutsy