parent and child spaces in sainsbury's car park

[Ridgley]

I have to agree with Peckham gatecrasher, there are some people who have cancer and other disabilities or special needs ???? but I do agree with that there are some people that abuse the system.

[Carbonara]

The abuse of Blue Badge spaces in Sainsbury's, Peckham pulse, Dulwich park and brockwell Park car parks have all inconvenienced my family considerably - the sense of entitlement of some drivers coupled with the 'don't give a damn' attitude of car park managers and attendants makes access very difficult.

Good for you for challenging mis-use of Parent and Child spaces.

[Michael Palaeologus]

Why do parents need special treatment? They dont have a disability, they have a child. Presumably they thought about the pros and cons before having that child.

Disabled people should have dedicated spaces next to the main entrance, its not their fault they have mobility difficulties. Parents have arms and legs and prams and buggies - get out and walk like everybody else.

I like the idea of dedicated parent spots away from the main entrance but next to a fenced off walkway - that way they have safety for the children but more of the entrance adjacent spots are available for the genuinely disabled.

No doubt flak will stream toward me, but before complaining about lack of access to the convenient parking spaces, justify why you should take priority over the disabled people or indeed those of us with no kids but a need to shop.

[Andicam]

I'm with Michael.

[*Bob*]

Sainbos put their top minds onto this one - and after several hours of blue-sky thinking outside of the box - they decided that placing extra-wide bays right next to the entrance might be a fine way of attracting the owners of Range Rovers who have four children and no restrictions on their weekly spend.

[????]

Er... disableded people do have dedicated parking spaces, right next to the entrance MP....which I guess shows that childless peeps aren't as frequent visitors (or as big time spenders) as the families, as Bob points out

[*Bob*]

Everything in Sainsburys is as it is for a reason.

And that reason is ?-shaped.

[ClareC]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

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> Why do parents need special treatment? They dont

> have a disability, they have a child. Presumably

> they thought about the pros and cons before having

> that child.

>

> Disabled people should have dedicated spaces next

> to the main entrance, its not their fault they

> have mobility difficulties. Parents have arms and

> legs and prams and buggies - get out and walk like

> everybody else.

>

> I like the idea of dedicated parent spots away

> from the main entrance but next to a fenced off

> walkway - that way they have safety for the

> children but more of the entrance adjacent spots

> are available for the genuinely disabled.

>

> No doubt flak will stream toward me, but before

> complaining about lack of access to the convenient

> parking spaces, justify why you should take

> priority over the disabled people or indeed those

> of us with no kids but a need to shop.

I didn't get it either... until I had a baby.

It's not really about proximity to the shop, most parent's I know would prefer they were further away, that way the spaces wouldn't be appealing to those that don't need them. Its the width of the space and having the trolleys with baby seats in close proximity to where the parking is that is the benefit.

Child car seats are not that easy to get a child in and out of unless you have space to open the door of the car fully. Normal spaces are not really wide enough to do this at the best of times and if someone parks badly it can make it near on impossible. If you have two car seats you don't stand a chance! I am fairly heavily pregnant at the moment and trying to manhandle my daughter in and out of a car seat in a standard sized space is not physically possible unless I took no care not to hit my door on the car next door or park next to an empty space - problem of course being that that space won't necessarily be empty upon return.

There is also the issue of trying to get a trolley that has the appropriate seating attachment - there are not that many of these and they are all located by the parent and child parking. If you park elsewhere and you have more than one child, depending on their ages (eg two non walkers) it can be a logistical nightmare trying to get a trolley and get them into the trolley / out of the trolley without leaving them alone in the car which clearly isn't an option.

I suspect that parents with toddler's/ small children do get benefit from being closer t the store from a safety point of view but would also happily be further away if there were a (covered) walkway to the store from the appropriate parking location.

I totally agree that (most) parent's choose to be parent's, however, does it really hurt at no expense to oneself to be thoughtful to other humans! That comment applies not only to this situation but in life in general.

Also, from a commercial point of view, Sainsbury's make a lot of money from families doing their shopping there, if they don't help their customer's where they can they will go elsewhere!

The other solution would be to make all the spaces wider.... entirely unnecessary and would make parking for everyone harder!

Edited to add, the parent spaces do not take priority over the disabled one's, these are located right by the store entrance (as they should be). Also, if you use a pram / buggy you are unable to use a trolley too which rather limits the quantity of shopping you can get!

[Michael Palaeologus]

Quids - I KNOW that there are disabled spaces at Sainsburys, what I am saying is that I dont see why parents should have equally preferential treatment. I am sure that those with genuine mobility problems would appreciate a few more spaces.

Literally billions of people have been able to produce and raise healthy children without the nescessity of being a few feet closer to the front door of Sainsbos, a requirement for shopping trolleys with baby seats or indeed a covered walkway to get to the front door.

The bleating about people who nick those spaces lacked a sense of proportion. If you need more space than I do to open and close the car door, park further away next to an empty space. There are always empty space next to the Nursery in the far corner - ironically.

[KeyboardWarrior]

If it is merely a matter of more space for parents, as has been suggested above by some, should "big boned" people be entitled to special parking areas ?? or tall people ?? where will it end ??

[*Bob*]

If it made more financial sense to Sainsburys PLC to have the parent & child spaces up a tree, surrounded by hungry wild animals - they'd do it.

[Damian H]

I am not sure of the exact legal position but I believe it is unlawful to discriminate on the grounds of marital status and I know that this has been extended to include family status- i.e. whether or not people have children. I know that in the public sector 'Term Time' provisions (which allowed people to choose to work patterns that allowed them to be off during school holidays and be paid proportionately) also HAD TO be available to those without children as well as those with children. Not to offer this would have been discrimination against individuals on the grounds that they were single or without children.

In light of this I think Sainsbury's could be on shaky legal ground if they tried to suggest that the Family Parking spaces concept is anything but voluntary. Certainly if they tried to fine someone ?50 based on the fact that they chose not to comply with what might be a legally unenforcable policy based on indirect discrimination - they could be on a sticky wicket.

[duchessofdulwich]

and to take sainsburys to court to contest a ?50 fine on the grounds of discrimination, would cost how much?

[buggie]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

> Literally billions of people have been able to

> produce and raise healthy children without the

> The bleating about people who nick those spaces

> lacked a sense of proportion. If you need more

> space than I do to open and close the car door,

> park further away next to an empty space. There

> are always empty space next to the Nursery in the

> far corner - ironically.

I'd be happy to park further away if I could guarantee having the space to get the bugglet +/- her car seat back into the car after shopping, unfortunately, even at the bottom of the car park this can't be promised and there's no way I'd leave her in her carseat in the road while I reverse out - not with the driving I've often seen at the bottom end of the car park.

The bugglet is very amenable to going shopping with anyone who wants a more baby's eye view and would probably be quite vocal on pointing out the problems :))

[ClareC]

buggie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

>

> > Literally billions of people have been able to

> > produce and raise healthy children without the

> > The bleating about people who nick those spaces

> > lacked a sense of proportion. If you need more

> > space than I do to open and close the car door,

> > park further away next to an empty space. There

> > are always empty space next to the Nursery in

> the

> > far corner - ironically.

>

> I'd be happy to park further away if I could

> guarantee having the space to get the bugglet +/-

> her car seat back into the car after shopping,

> unfortunately, even at the bottom of the car park

> this can't be promised and there's no way I'd

> leave her in her carseat in the road while I

> reverse out - not with the driving I've often seen

> at the bottom end of the car park.

>

> The bugglet is very amenable to going shopping

> with anyone who wants a more baby's eye view and

> would probably be quite vocal on pointing out the

> problems :))

ooh what a fab idea!! Baby C is a sociable friendly sort too, she could come shopping too along with the buglet in the interests of research to show what the trip is like with two :-))

[buggie]

> > The bugglet is very amenable to going shopping

> > with anyone who wants a more baby's eye view

> and

> > would probably be quite vocal on pointing out

> the

> > problems :))

>

>

> ooh what a fab idea!! Baby C is a sociable

> friendly sort too, she could come shopping too

> along with the buglet in the interests of research

> to show what the trip is like with two :-))

...Maybe we should move this to the "Offered" section - Mike P would you like first dibs?!

ClareC, after handover at the drop off point, thinking we could observe from Starbucks!! x

[ClareC]

buggie Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> ...Maybe we should move this to the "Offered"

> section - Mike P would you like first dibs?!

>

> ClareC, after handover at the drop off point,

> thinking we could observe from Starbucks!! x

Definitely! Quite looking forward to this shopping trip :-)

[buggie]

ClareC Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> buggie Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

>

> > ...Maybe we should move this to the "Offered"

> > section - Mike P would you like first dibs?!

> >

> > ClareC, after handover at the drop off point,

> > thinking we could observe from Starbucks!! x

>

> Definitely! Quite looking forward to this

> shopping trip :-)

Oooo.... could put all those things on the list I forget (ie, anything I need for me!)... any takers yet?!

[Michael Palaeologus]

Feck off!! I am without offspring not because I am a Jaffa but because I have no wish to take charge of very small people.

Children are lovely, as long as you can hand them back - once they have been whipped into a screaming hyperactive frenzy fed with brightly coloured sweeties and fizzy drinks.

Frankly a long weekend in Japan would be more attractive.

[Damian H]

duchessofdulwich Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> and to take sainsburys to court to contest a ?50

> fine on the grounds of discrimination, would cost

> how much?

Scarcely the point is it? Are you suggesting that people should put up with unlawful actions simplky because it might cost a little to challenge it? I shudder to think of the society we would end up with if we applied that notion.

Anyway it would be up to Sainsbury's to pursue the alleged offender for the fine rather than vice versa. Question is whether Sainsbury's would attempt to enforce a fine if it was made clear to them that it might have been unlawfully issued.

[Moos]

Dearest Michael Plinkyplonk

those of us who know you for the courteous, humorous, kind and naughty soul that you are will know that your post was written with a twinkle, but those not so privileged might be a bit uncertain as to its tone. I may have missed it but I don't think anyone suggested you might be less than thrilled that you are not a sprog-driver?

With much love

Moos Of Many Sprogs

[boosboss]

Michael Palaeologus Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Feck off!! I am without offspring not because I am

> a Jaffa but because I have no wish to take charge

> of very small people

Great to know that you being a Jaffa isn't the reason you are childless!

Anyway, P&C parking abusers = selfish tw*ts

[louloulabelle]

cant believe the tone of some people! Disabled spaces are important and if Parent spaces are provided why should parents not be able to use them!!!

I dont have to justify why i have kids, what car i drive and how much my weekly spend is but people using areas that are not designated for them should have to justify it!

[Loz]

louloulabelle Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> cant believe the tone of some people! Disabled

> spaces are important and if Parent spaces are

> provided why should parents not be able to use

> them!!!

>

> I dont have to justify why i have kids, what car i

> drive and how much my weekly spend is but people

> using areas that are not designated for them

> should have to justify it!

Did you actually read the thread before posting?

[louloulabelle]

yes thanks Loz, did you?