Too many muggings - what can we do! (Lounged)

[zeban]

'Poverty and hardship do not make criminals, in my view parents have a lot to do with this.'- I absolutely completely agree with you lindylou.

Me and all of my siblings grew up in poverty and went without a lot and were brought up by my Mum alone- there are 5 of us- 1 boy and 4 girls. Not one of us have ever ever turned to crime or even entertained the thought of it. We were brought up better than that and are all doing well in life, and funnily enough are really not obsessed with money the way that a lot of people in London seem to be- rich or poor.

You sound like an amazing mother lindylou and there are definitely a lot of parents that I'm sure could learn from you.

And bloonoo are you seriously naive enough to think that it has to take someone to tell you something has happened before you realise that walking around chatting on your brand new phone isn't the best idea. Where's your commonsense? And no this isn't just a London thing- it's common sense. The only country I've ever been to where you're very unlikely to get your phone stolen is Japan. There are opportunists everywhere. A buglary is different. And you were appealing for information. People posting their muggings on here don't seem to be appealing for information.

[helena handbasket]

Great post lindylou.

I don't think it was reading these posts that made me nervous in ED. It was being burgled in the night and then an attempted mugging (mid day) three months later that made me nervous. I agree with the post that suggests that not everyone is from London and has that instinct to have eyes on the back of your head and nail all of your possessions down, if you have any left. I don't know what my muggers were after, I didn't have a mobile as the burglars had already taken care of that. But I did learn some street smarts pretty quickly courtesy of the EDF........ especially the tips about carrying a "dummy" handbag for them to grab and sufficiently going into lockdown in the evenings. Good times.

But as James Barber says, the long story of this is a paranoia you can't shake. And it made me really sad to realize that I couldn't tell the difference between someone in the neighborhood who was just lovely and friendly or someone who was working out my situation so they could come back later, and that is I think the worst part.

[Jagger]

Ms B Wrote:

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> How about having one single thread on muggings so

> that those who are interested can take steps to

> avoid riskier roads (end of Oglander, Melbourne

> Grove, Whateley Road, Barry Road etc) without

> making it out to be a bigger problem than it is?

Hmmmm...perhaps not such great advice for those of us who live on those roads...

Location can be a factor but as other posters have suggested, keeping your valuables concealed is important, as is perhaps possibly keeping your phone separate from your wallet, separate from your keys etc..

Keeping the Safer Neighbourhoods Team informed after the event is important as they can build a picture of what's going on (bearing in mind the need to phone 999 if the crime is taking place at the time or you witness a crime that is underway).

[lindylou]

Thank you both so much zeban and helena handbasket. I truly have suffered throughout my life but believe my son has suffered more than me. But I will leave that aside and relate my mother and father's problems. My father grew up in such extreme poverty that he coulds not go to school as he had no shoes or trousers. There was no such thing as social security in those days. But did he steal from people? NO. My mother was the 7th child of a 7th child living in bermondsey, my grandfather hadf been killed in the war. They were completely poverty stricken. In order to survive my grandmother had to take in lodgers in an already overcrowded home. Did my mother turn to crime, NO. Much of todays problems seem to come from complete avarice. I wish i could go back to the 1950's when i was born and relive those happy days when no-one had anything, didn't want anything but were happy with their lot. Thank you all for reading my post, i hope i haven't offended anyone.

[Mathilda]

My inkling is that a lot, maybe most, but not all of the new reports are from people who have recently joined the forum because it has now become known as the place to talk about this sort of thing - ie a version of the South London Press

[lindylou]

PS> who is this sheepdog whop wants to set up a vigilante group? The mind, especially mine, boggles.

[zeban]

Well I don't think it should be known as the place to talk about this sort of thing if it's having a negative and scaremongering effect on the usual users of the forum. We KNOW these things happen, and whilst I have EXTREME sympathy for the victims, I'd rather the forum didn't become like a newspaper. Watch the news, read the papers- a lot of what you read and see is about crime. I don't turn a blind eye to these things but I don't want to read/see it everywhere, especially not on a community forum. I love this forum for the community it creates. I think reporting these crimes on here can actually have a detrimental effect on that community because if everyone is suddenly going to become scared and insular then what community do we actually have?

There's plenty of sh*%ts in this world, there's plenty of decent people. Let's just trust our instincts to decide on the difference.

[lindylou]

Hi mmathilda, once again, don't want to up[set you but havent seen your name come up before and don't quite know yr conexion with slp. I stopped reading/buying this paper 30 years ago. Can't imagine anypone rich or poor buying this rag. What is your point.

[lindylou]

zeban, i love your pos, you are 101 per cent correct. I stupidly misread mathilda's post. i apologise to you mathilda. Keep posting please, i cannot agree with you more.

[first mate]

zeban,

I don't agree with you. The forum is a place where people who live in East Dulwich share their experiences, views, needs and gossip. Sharing the fact that you have been mugged seems to me as valid a part of partcipating in a community forum as anything else. You seem to be suggesting that individual's censor their experiences in order to make the forum a 'safe' place.

Again, I still don't understand the notion that people are suddenly joining the forum to tell others they have been mugged, because this is the latest thing to do. If people have been mugged that is a fact and I have no problem with them telling other forumites about it- just as I would appreciate neighbours telling me if they had a break in. I don't think it is scaremongering, it is simply their experience.

[KidKruger]

As a result of news posted on EDF of various muggings, readers are very possibly being more cautious and aware on the streets at night. There may have already been a mugging prevented by the increased alertness.

Which surely could only be a good thing.

[DJKillaQueen]

And it allows other forumites to give advice on security, prevention and local organisations that can help.

[zeban]

Good point DJKQ,perhaps there could be a thread about precautions to take because I feel it is becoming a bit sensationalist like oh dear what is becoming of ED.

first mate, I personally feel that break ins are more organised crimes than muggings (although I'm sure it depends on the actual criminal. I know some muggings can be carried out by organised gangs but from what it sounds like these are mostly opportunist criminals). Thus, a break in is really important to report on the forum, where as I'm not sure a mugging is. I expect my neighbour to tell me if they've been broken into, but I wouldn't expect them to tell me they were mugged unless the police had told them it was part of a criminal gang making a habit out of it and operating in the area.

[first mate]

If my neighbour was mugged in this area I would certainly want to know, I'd probably want to know if they were mugged anywhere, it's the sort of experience that people often want to share and get off their chest, in my view that is part of being in a community.

I also think it is useful to have a sense of what is going on around you, both positive and negative. In addition I don't think that sharing an experience constitutes scaremongering. If someone peddles rumours or reports stuff second hand, or exaggerates, that would be scaremongering, simply saying what has happened to you is not.

[bloonoo]

Zeban, was just offering my opinion, no need to attack me for it. No I am not naive enough to do it and I don't even own a brand new phone, was just using it as an examp as one way it may be helpful to post these things. Plus if muggings are happening in certain areas or people are able to give descriptions of the muggers or how they operate then surely it I best to warn your fellow humanbeings.

zeban Wrote:

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> 'Poverty and hardship do not make criminals, in my

> view parents have a lot to do with this.'- I

> absolutely completely agree with you lindylou.

>

> Me and all of my siblings grew up in poverty and

> went without a lot and were brought up by my Mum

> alone- there are 5 of us- 1 boy and 4 girls. Not

> one of us have ever ever turned to crime or even

> entertained the thought of it. We were brought up

> better than that and are all doing well in life,

> and funnily enough are really not obsessed with

> money the way that a lot of people in London seem

> to be- rich or poor.

>

> You sound like an amazing mother lindylou and

> there are definitely a lot of parents that I'm

> sure could learn from you.

>

> And bloonoo are you seriously naive enough to

> think that it has to take someone to tell you

> something has happened before you realise that

> walking around chatting on your brand new phone

> isn't the best idea. Where's your commonsense? And

> no this isn't just a London thing- it's common

> sense. The only country I've ever been to where

> you're very unlikely to get your phone stolen is

> Japan. There are opportunists everywhere. A

> buglary is different. And you were appealing for

> information. People posting their muggings on here

> don't seem to be appealing for information.

[zeban]

Except there aren't really any descriptions of the muggers on here- just age and ethnity which really isn't a description.

I think we'll have to agree to disagree here.

[helena handbasket]

DJKillaQueen Wrote:

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> And it allows other forumites to give advice on

> security, prevention and local organisations that

> can help.

This was what my point was clumsily trying to say, as well as KidKruger's point about being more aware for your personal safety if you know that it is happening. I had been to London many times as a tourist so had a false sense of confidence about what I knew about living there , and was actually quite naive. The forum was a crucial source of information for me that I otherwise wouldn't have had access to, and I think that it does an amazing job of informing the community of what's going on.

To be honest, I can find a curry shop by myself and if it's not great it's not life or death. But knowing there is a violent gang of thieves on bikes operating in my area and tips on how to avoid becoming one of their victims is quite valuable. I also had never heard of a London bar or some of the other security measures mentioned by forumites and that information was priceless. Maybe the thread should be called "public service announcements" or something but that information does belong here.

[zeban]

Well that's just my opinion. I'm London born and bred so maybe that's what makes my opinion different.

What I'd really like to see is one thread instead of one everytime something happens. Then it's not quite so scary for some.

[Sue]

lindylou Wrote:

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>Much of todays problems seem to come

> from complete avarice.

xxxxxx

Lindylou I completely agree, and thanks for your posts.

[aspidistra]

I'm thanking the lordy (and our councillor and our chief lighting engineer chappy from Southwark) that we now once again have streetlights along our road. Yay! It's been pretty weird last few days in countryside-blackness, given the numbers of goings on on this small road recently (burglary, attempted burglary, 'violent crime' which is presumably muggings, and some other not nice stuff). The onset of some kind of crime wave coinciding with absolutely zero street-lighting was doing my head in. Even my taxi driver felt nervous the other night.

Apropos stuff on EDF: hardly any of the local crime gets reported on here (<5% of the totals each month), so EDF is no measure of anything. Check the crime stats and crime maps (and your neighbours) for what's actually happening.

[silverfox]

Reality is we need a change in the law so we can carry arms.

the police can no longer protect us against 13 year old thugs working his or her way through the gang network.

arm yourself like the yanks - shoot first and ask questions later - they will!

[zeban]

Wow what a wonderful role model you are silverfox!

I'm really hoping you've been drinking tonight and are not serious.

[silverfox]

zeban,

what are you - man or mouse?

The gangsters will have you for breakfast

how do you honestly think things will improve? a community that won't even hold a street party for the royal wedding is hardly likely to get volunteers to patrol their block.

tool up man

[zeban]

I'm a woman silverfox, and by the sounds of it, you're a twat

What on earth does the Royal Wedding have to do with anything? I couldn't give a crap about the monarchy. They can shove their wedding up their arses! I do give a crap about my neighbours as do others on this forum. That's what a local community is.

Jeez, no wonder you're sticking up for Galliano. Got anything to say about Jews because I'm Jewish too you know!

[silverfox]

zeban,

how do you protect this community you speak so highly of?

and what's with playing the Jewish card? one of the things I respect about Israel is it stands up for itself.

what you haven't given me and the EDf (despite cheap swear at Silverfox symbols) is any other recommendations as to how to solve the mugging problem.

Until you do so my solution is feasible.