Night feeds at 4 months - what is realistic?

[supergolden88]

For those who have seen my many posts on this forum you will know that I have a baby boy who is 4 months and waking up a LOT at night. Sometimes it is up to 6 times and others only 2/3 but when he is up less he tends to stay awake for hours at a time. Last night it was 3.30-5am partly because the nappy leaked and after changing him and his entire outfit/growbag he was WIDE awake and giggling.

I am determined to try and improve his sleep - this is my second baby and I have been through a year of broken sleep with my daughter 4 years ago. I really want to avoid that this time around. Or try to anyway.

Baby boy is breastfed although we do try to give him a bottle once a day (usually the second night feed) with either formula or EBM. Even when he takes the bottle (usually he fusses and refuses it) he only takes a maximum of 60ml or more frequently 20-40ml.

My question is how many feeds where/are you doing at 4 months? My son can go 4 hour stretches or longer but he sometimes will brestfeed for 5 minutes or less even when the gap is a big one. He also tends to not be interested in first morning feed which leads me to believe he is taking too much during the night.

The past few days he feeds on first wake up (between 10-12pm not always consistent) and he tends to refuse a bottle and breastfeed - sometimes very little others a lot - before falling asleep again.

Second feed tends to be around 2-4am (again depending on when first one was - roughly three hours since last feed). This one he usually takes bit of a bottle and then breastfeeds on top of that.

Morning feed is 7-8am depending on when he was fed last. As I mentioned he is usually not that interested.

I am desperate to turn his daytime feeds around so I would ideally like to drop the feed in the middle of the night.

I should also mention that his nose tends to get blocked at night which wakes him up and on top of that he is teething something fierce! That is to say perhaps he is not waking up due to hunger but is used to feeding before going back to sleep.

[ClareC]

I think each baby is different, my sister's two both slept through from 8 weeks (grrrr), my daughter is 13 months now and as a newborn she fed like clockwork every 3 hours. By 4 months she only had one night feed around 2 am. prior to that (but post the 3 hourly feeds) it was 2 feeds, with the other feed being around 11 (she goes to bed at 7 and gets up around half 7 to 8 )

From day one I was very strict in terms of making sure she fed for at least 15 minutes and then 20 when she was a bit bigger. She would try to snack and go back to sleep so I would keep her awake until she had enough milk - hard to do and determine when b\f ing.

She slept through fairly early on (7pm to 7.30 / 8ish) but when she is unwell / teething etc she does randomly regress back to wanting a 2am feed. This then goes on for weeks after she is better :-(

I know she doesn't need the feed as such but we do just give it to her as it's easy and the quickest way to get her back to bed!

Good luck, the interruptions to sleep are so much worse when they are not newborn for some reason :-(

[kam1]

I also have a 4 month old boy and his sleeping patterns are very similar - fortunately 2/3 times a night rather than 6 times! He used to wake a lot more when we were cosleeping but since moving him out to his own cot in his own room a few weeks ago he has improved (I know some people would not think 2/3 wakings a night is an improvement but he is exclusively breastfed as he refuses to take a bottle so I feel we have come a long way compared to a month ago). He does not go down until 9/9.30 pm and if we are lucky will sometimes sleep until 2.30/3.00 am but most nights he will wake up around midnight for a feed, again at 3/4am and and again around 6/7am. He does go back to sleep straight after a feed but I would love to cut it down to 2 feeds rather than 3, I really think he doesn't need the midnight feed and like your boy doesn't always feed for very long, he is just used to being fed back to sleep. I know I probably need to let him cry a bit before running to feed him every time he wakes up, worked with my 20 month old when he was a similar age but he was taking full bottles by then so I knew he wasn't hungry, with this one I never know if he is genuinely hungry. He also is not hungry when he wakes up so he does not need all those nighttime feeds. We don't really have a routine during the day, I still feed him as and when, usually when toddler is not demanding my attention. My little one also has a constantly blocked nose and teething has started as well, had his first dose of calpol at the weekend and that knocked him out for 6 hours! So no real advice but just to let you know we are in a similar situation, I think we probably need to be a bit tougher before we see a real improvement, just need to be in the right frame of mind to do that. However I thought it would be really difficult to get him out of our bed and in the end he didn't complain too much so I know trying to cut out the midnight feed is the next step.

[Polly D]

Have you tried a dummy at night to settle him: maybe he's comfort sucking? That way he can get what he needs milkwise in the daytime. Of course you still have to wake/get up to give him the dummy, but gradually it might work.

Good luck, it's knackering.

[Ruth_Baldock]

IIRC, at 4 months, Cheeky S was breastfeeding every hour from 7-10. Nice. Then every 2 hours. But I felt the 12, and even the 2am possibly were comfort feeding. We were bedsharing and he has easy-access, but it was still knackering.

He also had a dummy which DID help as long as my husband did the whole dummy retrival thing. If he realised I was even an inch near him, he'd want boob. In hindsight, if we'd moved him into his cot and been a bit more consistent, we could have dropped the two 'comfort' feeds- we didn't manage to do this 'till he was 9 months old in the end.

In short, I have no practical advice but tonnes and tonnes of sympathy. :(

[Fuschia]

Found some info about this the other day.. don't agree with all of this site but links are interesting:

http://www.babysleepsite.com/newborns/newborn-sleep-baby-tips-10/

site is very practical

THis is re night feeding:

http://www.babysleepsite.com/sleep-training/night-feedings-by-age-when-do-you-night-wean/

and 4 month sleep regression

http://www.babysleepsite.com/how-we-sleep/4-month-old-sleep-regression/

[crystal7]

When my daughter was this age she would wake every 3 hours like clockwork. She was also a very quick feeder 5-10 minutes on 1 boob (didn't take bottle) for her 5 minutes was a full feed. I decided it had to improve when I went back to work so from about 9 months I sent OH up when she woke at 10 and then fed at 1 and 4 and then just cuddled at 1 and she'd wake at 3 or so. Kept to 3am feed up until she self weaned at aroiund 15 months :-$. Prob not the answer you're looking for!I'm sure we could have got her to sleep through or at least feed less at night from an earlier age though but I'm not very good at sleep training etc. Not sure what I'd do with a 2nd!

[LSB]

I think there might be something in this 4 month sleep regression thing? My daughter will be 17 weeks this week and until last week had been on one feed around 330/4am ish for AGES. However, since last week she's been waking up 2/3 times a night for no apparent reason (last night was 230am - fed her - 4am - replaced dummy and 530am - fed her). It's knackering! She's exclusively b/f apart from one formula feed around 10pm. Does anyone know whether they un-regress themselves and, if so, when??!!

[Gussy]

4 months is one of the biggest growth spurts - you know the one where everyone tells you to wean because you aren't producing enough milk for the baby!....

[Fuschia]

LSB Wrote:

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> Does anyone

> know whether they un-regress themselves and, if

> so, when??!!

although they wll get through the developmental leap, sleep patterns have changed for good with periods of light sleep like an adult. They won't sleep again like a newborn, continuous deep sleep

[LeilahB]

So how does one get them to sleep through (ie learn to self settle if they wake in periods of light sleep) without resorting to controlled crying (which am not keen on)?

[Fuschia]

LeilahB Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> So how does one get them to sleep through (ie

> learn to self settle if they wake in periods of

> light sleep) without resorting to controlled

> crying (which am not keen on)?

Ah, the holy grail... teaching them to self settle via healthy sleep associations.

Go into a bookshop and you can find a whole shelf of alternative approaches!

[supergolden88]

Thanks for the messages glad to know I am not the only one out there!

Baby refuses the dummy (he took it for about a week as a newborn, never since). I guess the real issue is sorting the daytime feeds and then being confident that he is not hungry in the night. Not sure how I will do this when he refuses to feed much in the day but we'll see.

If only his little nose would stop being congested at night! It's been months now and no improvement.

[reren]

I am no expert on this but are you feeding on demand? It may be a coincidence but ive noticed that babies allowed to feed on demand often cluster feed - getting a lot in the evening and then sleep better at night?

[ClareC]

Have you tried a humidifier and snufflebabe? Maybe it's the nose that is the issue....

[helenat1970]

Hi there -

it sounds like your baby likes a cuddle and a suckle from his mama! at 4 months if he's only taking v. small amounts like 60ml then he's not hungry - it just sounds like he likes a cuddle.

I hate to say it but you have two options - go with him and see how long it takes him to get out of the habit (which he will because I don't know any 5 years olds still waking up 2/3/4 times a night), or work on a plan to change the habit.

The clue's usually at bedtime and naptimes - is he an independent sleeper? (if you can put him down wide awake and he can drift off to sleep). Usually bubs who like to wake up lots at night are not. The first thing is to teach him to go to sleep by himself.

You'll need to work out how tough your plan will need to be - most mummies seem to DREAD the controlled crying thing, but then again, it depends how desperate you become for sleep... I don't think you'll need to be tough if that's not you - but you'll need to be consistent - work out in your head your end game and always keep that in mind.

Good luck! (and secretly? whilst I've always been 'baby needs routine' queen - with no. 2 I started being a bit more lax - after all they're only babies for such a short time - a cuddle is nice for you as much as it is for them.......)

[catjo13]

Have you tried cranial osteopath for the nose issue ? My DS is just coming up for 15 weeks and had similar issues (it is these winter babies !) with the nose thing. I was constantly giving him drops etc. and he was quite unsettled in the night. I had a couple of visits with the osteo and things seem to have improved. He still isn't sleeping through, but I think that is genuine hunger rather than anything else.

He generally goes from 10.30 to 4am, feeds and then back to sleep until about half 7.

[jollybaby]

At 4 months baby JB was waking once in the night - anything between 2 and 4am. In fact she's been in this pattern since about 9 weeks and at 5 months doesn't look like budging. Beginning to wonder whether she'll drop this feed naturally or if she'll need any form of training (though I know 5 months is still very young).

[dullified]

I think it is realistic to expect a 6 to 8 hour stretch at night from a 4 month old breast fed baby (but pretty unusual to do any longer). Mine did that stretch from 7.30pm to 3.30am. This stretch then became naturally longer until he slept through at 11 months. Maybe you are making night feeds too much fun? I always kept the lights low as possible plus talking to the bare hushed minimum plus a bit of yawning and even closing my own eyes (although never do this if there is a a danger you will fall asleep).

[Pickle]

Both of my breastfed babies were waking once during the night by 4 months, usually around 3 - 3.30am or so (with a dreamfeed at 10ish after going to bed at 7pm). During the day they were both in quite a strong routine with regards to feeding, I always made sure they got full feeds etc. and it seemed to help with nighttime sleep patterns. They started sleeping through once they were well and truly on solids, around 8 months from memory.

[radnrach]

Mine is now 6 months old, and has been waking up around the same amount of times since he was 3-4 months. he usually goes to bed @ 7:30, wakes up 4-5 hours later, then 3 hours later, then 3 hours later again... So always at least 2-3 times a night. Some nights he fancies staying awake for a while, too. That's fun. He always eats a full feed (milk from both breasts)... So, I can tell he's hungry and not just feeding for comfort.

One night he actually slept for 7 hours straight and I thought he must be dead... but of course he wasn't. And then the next night he went back to his usual routine. I stressed about it for a while, but I think it just made me more tired to stress about it. I think all babies are just totally different. What you can expect from one baby will be completely different from another.

[prm]

In my experience (and same with friends of babies of a similar age) 4 month olds don't need to feed through the night so I would guess your baby is waking out of habit. There is a number of things you could do to try and change that pattern. First if you dont do it already is a bed time routine (eg bath,winding down,feed) so he distinguishes clearly he's going into "nightime mode". I think you are right about the key being in daytime feeding / routine, I would try increasing his daytime feeding - my daughter is exactly the same, she doesnt normally take more than 50 ml on the bottle so the trick I have been using is giving her the bottle first when she is really hungry then "topping her up" with the boob. Bear in mind the big developmental change others mentioned above, at 3.5 - 4 months they start feeding much more efficiently so they may only feed for literally 3 mins and have enough with that (if they are still putting weight on it's ok). Definitively top up with a dreamfeed without waking him up (hard at first but it works if you persevere) at 10.30 - 11pm but no later, and try not to feed during night wakings. Hope that helps & good luck!

Edited to add I typed the above in a hurry from ny phone so tried to pack in as much advice as possible - but I don't want to sound like I have the perfect baby! Mine is 6 months and although I consider she "sleeps through the night" she often wakes once or twice, not to feed but wakes nonetheless and wish I knew how to fix that too!

[minder]

My three were still waking regularly during the night at 4 months. I thought this was the norm and didn't expect much else to be honest until they settled into a routine from around 6-8 months.