Dance with the Devil: Ireland & the EEC

[silverfox]

Ireland's problems started the day it joined the EEC.

Saw a naive documentary by Fergal Keane the other day, trying to explain Ireland's problems as some sort of mistake made in the last tHree or four years.

The rot started many years ago.

Portugal next?

[SeanMacGabhann]

Silvefox

Are you the nutter who puts the a4 printouts up around east dulwich

[Narnia]

What printouts?

[SeanMacGabhann]

you sometimes see printed A4 sheets posted around the place - all CAP LETTERS complaining about this that and the other thing. Can't remember what name is at the bottom but similar levels of bonkerness

[Narnia]

Ah complaining...............it's much easier to use the forum for that.

[Marmora Man]

SEan,

It's not "bonkers" to point out that Ireland's politicians and their endemic cronynisim with business engineered a huge property based boom on the back of low interest rates that were set by ECB in the 90s and '00s to suit France and Germany but that did little for the smaller fringe states of the EU. I would agree that once the crash hit some of the political decisions - particualrly the one that guaranteed all Irish bank debt were foolish but the seeds of the disaster were, indeed, set many years ago.

[SeanMacGabhann]

maybe true quids but none of that has much to do with the EC

ireland's croneyism and corruption go back way further than any of that

But the dark miserable place Ireland was before it joined the EEC? If anyone wants that they are indeed barmy

Besides, it's not just this post - silvefox generally makes me wonder

[Marmora Man]

SeanMacGabhann Wrote:

Sean - Quids & I sometimes agree, sometimes disagree. We are not the same person tho'

-------------------------------------------------------

> maybe true quids but none of that has much to do

> with the EC

>

> ireland's croneyism and corruption go back way

> further than any of that

>

> But the dark miserable place Ireland was before it

> joined the EEC? If anyone wants that they are

> indeed barmy

>

> Besides, it's not just this post - silvefox

> generally makes me wonder

[SeanMacGabhann]

oooh blimey MM - my mistake. Force of habit maybe?

Many apologies tho

[silverfox]

"...some of the political decisions - particualrly the one that guaranteed all Irish bank debt were foolish..."

Tricky one this. The question is what would have happened if the Irish government hadn't made this guarantee? Bankruptcy obviously. The Irish people losing all their savings? Also, many mortgages in the UK were taken out with Irish Banks. Would thousands of people here have lost their houses?

[Marmora Man]

silverfox Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> "...some of the political decisions - particualrly

> the one that guaranteed all Irish bank debt were

> foolish..."

>

> Tricky one this. The question is what would have

> happened if the Irish government hadn't made this

> guarantee? Bankruptcy obviously. The Irish people

> losing all their savings? Also, many mortgages in

> the UK were taken out with Irish Banks. Would

> thousands of people here have lost their houses?

Much, indeed probably the majority of the Irish bank debt, was held by institutions and other European banks. Many of those institutions and banks were also in debt - to have their Irish bank loan guaranteed was better than they expected, they would have been making provision for bad debt but suddenly didn't have to. Ireland could probably have got away with just guaranteeing personal debt.

[Huguenot]

Whatever your views on the banking crisis silverfox, it's clear that any link to the EC would be tenuous.

I just don't accept that the world before social strategy and progressive politics entailed a society of happy-go-lucky hobbits basking in the late summer sunshine as their wheatfields swayed in a gentle breeze.

The world before democracy entailed diseased indentured impoverished serfs who lived a life of indescribable malnutrition and slavery until they died before hitting forty.

They would have hated it.

Your comments on Ireland reveal a very poor insight into Irish society, and an almost delusional view of their history.

[silverfox]

"... impoverished serfs who lived a life of indescribable malnutrition and slavery..." didn't know any different - that was their lot.

Ireland has lived high on the hog and seen how sweet life can be thanks to cheap loans and low ECB interest rates and now a couple of generations will be sacrificed to pay the bill.

[Tarot]

Ireland indeed was a dark and dispairing place, but I dont agree it brightened up beacause of the Euro thing.

The youngsters of Ireland came alive when they had Boyzone and Westlife, that shook up those old men

that preached death and mayham all their young lives.

They were sick of it and just wanted to live their own lives, to be young ,to dance and sing without being in some

religous staitjacket.

They made Ireland and the rest of the U'K rock, not the dictatorial Europe gang.

The money gleaned by religion in that counntry is another thing keeping it poor. Joining the Euro was a mistake. as the saying goes the proof is in the Pudding.

[mockney piers]

Ha haha hahah aha h aha aha a

[Brendan]

i just want to dance!

[Tarot]

There you,s go, laughing and dancing already.

They have done Ireland proud though, havent they.

I,ve met Shane in kent,his a really nice bloke.

[Brendan]

I?m afraid I am completely unqualified to comment on whether or not Rody Williams made a significant contribution to the Irish renaissance.