Dulwich Hamlets Football Club licence review

[James Barber]

The licensing of Dulwich Hamlets Football Club is being reviewed due to the recent shooting which seemed to kick of in their function room/bar.

If you have any views on this please email licensing@southwark.gov.uk

If you could copy one of the South Camberwell ward councillors Stephen.Govier@southwark.gov.uk and myself that would be really helpful.

The consultation is at:

http://app.southwark.gov.uk/licensing/LicPremisesAppliedDetails.asp?systemkey=834054

The deadline for objections or support is 3 March.

[taper]

It would be useful to know how the business model at Dulwich Hamlets FC works. Anyone know? Do they rely on income from the bar, or from when the bar is rented out?

Although I am ambivalent about the status of the bar and club, I would hate for anything to happen that damaged the sustainability of the football club.

[lje1985]

Thanks James - and taper, I agree. However, I would like to see the club restricted to admitting only those 21 or above (in the case of private hire).

[DJKillaQueen]

They are a committee run organisation. Anyone over 14 is allowed in a bar with a responsible adult but often bars don't enforce that in regards to private functions. Also what a lot of committee run organistations don't realise is that if anyone under sge is drinking in the bar or someone of age is buying aclohol for minors, that ALL committee members on the premises are legally liable and can be prosecuted. Similarly the premises should refuse entry to any minor they suspect has been drinking alcohol (elsewhere).

I don't personally think that the fact that DHFC is a licensed premise in itself precipitated events that evening. All bars have anti-social behaviour from time to time and deal with it accordingly. They can't be held responsible for what happened outside and away from their premises and according to reports they ended the party as soon as trouble flared inside the club.

[ratty]

As an Abbotswood Resident I have never experienced any trouble coming from the bar. From what I have heard it seems they were duped that night into thinking it was a birthday party.

[Loz]

I do think that their bouncers need retraining - as another Abbotswood resident I'd prefer they just didn't solve problems in the building by dumping everyone outside and then not calling the police to ensure it disbands peacefully.

[Keef]

If it's hired for a private party, is it their responsibility to supply security? It is absolutely insane to blame them for what happened the other week. They have been licensed for years, and this has not been a regular occurance. What happened, probably would have happened wherever they were.

[TopTree]

Is that the same Stephen Govier ? who allegedly shot someone in the USA?

[alice]

Maybe so but if the police had been called when a fight broke out [which seems a reasonable policy to have] the tragic result may have been averted

[DJKillaQueen]

It does seem a bit odd that the bar didn't call police.

[ianr]

TopTree>Is that the same Stephen Govier ? who allegedly shot someone in the USA?

I think you well know it is. http://www.private-eye.co.uk/sections.php?section_link=rotten_boroughs&

[Additional stuff removed: stuff about suspended Southwark councillors probably better in separate thread]

[Eddie M]

taper Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> It would be useful to know how the business model

> at Dulwich Hamlets FC works. Anyone know? Do

> they rely on income from the bar, or from when the

> bar is rented out?

>

> Although I am ambivalent about the status of the

> bar and club, I would hate for anything to happen

> that damaged the sustainability of the football

> club.

Taper - I am Chair of The Dulwich Hamlet Supporters' Trust, which is completely independent of the club, so only know the broad position. Basically, the pure football side of Club loses money - just like every non-league club nowadays. At a recent public meeting the club estimated the losses at more than ?2,000 a week.

The Club then attempts to offset these losses with income from the Health Club, the bar (including functions) and the Greendales artificial pitches.

In today's Southwark News there is an article on the subject in which Councillor Barber and Dulwich Hamlet's owner Nick McCormack are both quoted. The latter is quoted as saying "If we lost the licence, we might as well close down. But I don't think our licence will be revoked. They will be looking at our hours, our security and our CCTV and there may be certain conditions put on us. But we understand that the police have recommended this after the tragic incident".

I obviously have an interest the club not losing one of its income streams , but would echo the posts that suggest it would be disproportionate for the club to lose its licence over this (rather than have conditions put on it). As the Southwark News mentions, the violence was 'sparked by a group of teenagers from outside the local area who gate-crashed the event'.

[taper]

Eddie

Thanks for that. For me then, The licence must continue as is.

[Help-Ma-Boab]

Small community based club and facility. Been to a couple of events there and use the squash courts, tragic event a few weeks ago but that could happen almost anywhere whether it be a school disco or other venue (they will bring their own don revvy or other with them). I hope the licence continues and the club survives.

[intexasatthe moment]

What Help-Ma-Boab said .

[DJKillaQueen]

Exactly. People are what make tragic things happen not a venue. DH will do what they can to prevent anything like that happening again but they shouldn't be punished (and in turn the many more law abiding people that use the club) because of the actions of people at a one-off event.

[alice]

but a venue is run by people and one of those people had a policy of turning trouble outside, not informing the police and getting staff to support that policy.

[Loz]

I don't think anyone is saying they should lose their licence, but there are some lessons learnt here that they need to demonstrate they have taken on board. That could be in the form of increased security training (and, if they have had the practice of allowing the hirer to supply security, not doing that any more) or a written procedure on this kind of issue that they promise to follow.

If they can show that, I can't see any problem with them keeping their licence. As DJKQ said, it was the only real incident we've had at the Hamlets.

[Keef]

alice Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> but a venue is run by people and one of those

> people had a policy of turning trouble outside,

> not informing the police and getting staff to

> support that policy.

But how can you possibly know that, unless you were there that evening?

[James Barber]

I attended a few comedy nights at this venue a few years back. The bar staff hugely heckled the acts. The acts were incredulous. My gut feeling was that no one was really in charge and we stopped going. If they convince the licensing committee that extra conditions can achieve a level of venue management then great. But the current licence had already had local residents complaining the licensed hours weren't being stuck to and that windows were not being kept closed to contain noise.

I would hate to see the football club suffer but equally no neighbours of a football club should have problems from a badly run venue and all the risks that entails.

[thebestnameshavegone]

Anecdote by James Barber masquerading as evidence

[DJKillaQueen]

The issue of not operating within the terms of a licence is of course another issue and I have been very vocal on that before. When touble flared at the recent event it was well within it's licensing hours. If people are intent on fighting then there's no amount of licensing that can prevent that. Even when door staff are present, they are vastly outnumbered by guests. DH may well have believed in good faith that ending the party early was sufficient to stop further trouble. Without knowing what happened in the DH bar it's hard to know.

For me there's a huge different between not closing shutters and the rare occasion of someone being fatally attacked after an event. If DH were a magnet for such behaviour, that would be different, but it's not. This was a private party, not a night club open every weekend and attracting the same regular crowd.

[Weegee]

I agree with a lot of the people on this thread.Dulwich Hamlet football should not lose their licence.They have

every right to pursue a business model that maximises income especially as they do not get much external financial

Support (like the premier league.)

However the football club has to remember that the bar is a licenced Establishment like any other pub or bar in the ED Area.

And they have rules and procedures to follow.

I'n this particular tragic case certain steps or procedures weren't followed.the review should highlight these

[Weegee]

I also think that the football club really needs to

Work on it's Relationship with local neighbours and

Residents ie the PR,communications etc ESP during

The issue with the shutters and late night parties.

Then it would engender a healthy representation of

Theclub in the local community .and would have stopped

A licencing review from having to be done

[bookhopper]

this will sound harsh, but i personally think it should be revoked.