Leaving toddlers alone to have their tantrum

[WorkingMummy]

We have a 2.5 year old girl. She's lovely but let's just say I now know that when people talk about "terrible-2s" they are not making stuff up.

I am always very careful to let my daughter know that I get it. "You're angry, that's fine. I'm not changing my mind, but I do understand that you're angry." But apart from that, my husband and I don't really have any fixed techniques. It all depends on what else is going on and where we are.

Sometimes, however, the screaming, kicking, biting etc is so bad, that all I can do is put her into her cot-bed (where she is safe) and leave her to it. I've heard/read of people cuddling their toddlers through these moments, to help them calm down, but with my LO this really isn't an option. If she wants a cuddle (even in a tantrum) she'll say, and she'll get one. If she doesn't, she just get's more furious that she is being held against her will.

What I want advice about is: should I leave the room? When her rage is as bad as I have just described, I always do. It seems pointless to sit and give an audience to the monster of emotion that is consuming her. I can't hold her, and she can't listen. It would never occur to me to stick around to watch.

The only reason I ask is that I just did a google search on temper tantrums (wanting to hear again what I already know - that this is normal and she will outgrow it). I turned up lots of stuff about how the prevailing emotion during a tantrum is fear (of their own inner monster/lack of self control apparently) and that while it's ok to put them in a cot/pen while it lasts, you should stay nearby because this will help them know YOU are not afraid by what's going on, can deal with it and still accept them.

I must confess I've never tried this. Truth is I CAN'T always deal with it when she goes completely nuts. But I guess I just assumed I was doing what was best and would really appreciate some other perspectives.

(Unless the tantrum coincides with a nap time, and she knows it, I always go back after a few minutes, and if she is receptive to me at any point, I will stay. Unless she is resisting sleep, I don't leave her to cry alone indefinitely!)

WM

[Fuschia]

Margot Sunderland in her book "Science of parenting" distinguishes between a little nero tantrum (consciously dESIGNED to manipukate) and an emotional meltdown, which the child needs love and support to get through. How best to achieve that I think depends on the child. I think it's correct to help them name their emotions, to articulate what they are upset about. And I think there comes a point in any meltdown when the temper is spent and a child needs a hug. But whether it is necessary to stay in view throughout, I don't know. Not if it prolongs the agony on both sides, I'd suggest!!

[susyp]

I am new to the tantrum thing - my daughter is also 2 and a half and what I thought were tantrums a few months ago most decidely were not - now it's throwing things around etc. But she does seem very distressed while doing it so I tend to hold her (she is willing) and just say calm down, calm down, shh shh. That works for her. No idea if it would work for other children I guess they are all different! As Fuschia says - there are dif types of tantrums (and btw I LOVE that book - wish I had found it 2 years ago!!), and these ones we are currently having are definitely emotional meltdowns. Seems to be total frustration.

susypx

[bodsier]

I think its ok to be there with her when she has her tantrums, but I think its important for her to know that hurting people is not ok, and maybe vocalising that she should have 'time out' to calm down in those instances, I am not suggesting that you do not vocalise, its just that you hadn't mentioned it. I think they may feel abandoned if this is not vocalised. There is a parenting course at The parent Practice in clapham that might be worth looking at. It deals with this and other situations. I found this really interesting, and helpful. Sounds like the book you mentioned is on the same page, along with 'Raising an emotionally intelligent child'. Somehow I found that a course with homework to do each week put things into perspective. Not cheap mind, but then children aren't are they!

[Fuschia]

Southwark council run free paenting courses, will post a link

[Natalie Doula]

Working mummy,

The only thing I would say about putting LO in the cotbed when having tantrums, is that it could make LO start to have a negative perspection of the cotbed i.e cotbed = place to have tantrums rather than a calm happy place to sleep :). My LO is 19 month and is having tantrums already! I have adopted the tactic of putting her in a safe, soft place to allow her to have the tantrum and vent her frustration. All children are different, but with my LO if I acknowledge and then ignore the tantrum it subsides a LOT quicker :)

Good Luck

Natalie

[ryedalema]

We put dd1 in the naughty corner each and every time. It resulted in instant crying, which we ignored (and went into another room for mostly). But when the hysterical crying subsided we went to her and she got a cuddle if she said sorry - now it's evolved to saying sorry to the person(s) she offended and voicing what she was sorry for.

Sounds a bit draconian when written down but she knew the rules from day one and we haven't 'moved the goalposts' on her.

Truth is now my OH and I both end up in the naughty corner as much as she does and I delighted in the time recently when she sent Grandpa into the naughty corner for talking with his mouth full. Something I'd shied off broaching for..umm...decades.

It's worked for us - and touch wood and a bit more - we've a well adjusted little one with manners and forethought.

Good luck with yours - there is an end to it xxx

[ryedalema]

Oh - I forgot to mention - lots and lots of praise/positive reinforcement when she behaved well or handled a situation or emotion well too (being really specific what she was getting the praise for). Worked really well for us.

[happydulwich]

Hi there,

Agree with ryedalema, also did this with our daughter and it worked.

When time out has finished, get down to her level, explain why you put her on the naughty step/corner/spot and then ask her to say sorry and give a big hug. She should be there for 2 mins. Let her scream, cry and do anything to get it out of her system. If she moves off the step etc, put her back without speaking to her.

Friends have copied this and has worked wonders.

Remember, she is not angry with you, she just needs to express her frustations and her own thinking spot can do this.

Before starting the naughty step etc, make sure you give her two warnings about her behaviour and then put her on there.

With regards to biting, I would bite her back and see what her reaction is. Mine only bite me once!

Do not put her in her bedroom, as this is would create a negative reason to be in her room.

You could even put a red cushion on the naughty spot and this will show her and remind her that this is where she will go(somewhere safe and out of the way, mine is in the hallway).

Good luck, and follow this through at other peoples houses/ shops etc.

We have all been there.

[Belle]

I do the cot thing for the simple reason that I can't see how the naughty step would work - if I try timeout anywhere other than the cot, he just gets up and runs off. I guess the idea is to keep returning him there? But I know with my son he'd never ever stay! I do worry about the negative associations, but do it v rarely so not too worried.

[susyp]

We use the naughty step for specific behaviour (including biting ) and it does work - for some reason she will sit there although I do have to keep putting her there sometimes. Recently she gets so upset by being there that I often have to sit there with her but it's not normaly like that . She spends a lot of time putting her dolls etc on the naughty step too!!

It wouldn't work with her tantrums as she is just so upset that she wouldn't really be able to understand why she was there. I just calm her down and then talk to her. It's almost like an out of body experience for her, rather than naughty behaviour. But if she is just having an epi because I won't let her do something then I would put her on the naughty step.

If you watch supernanny they do all stay there eventually! It's a battle of wills. It's also quite good as it allows you to calm down if you've been bitten etc and to think through in your mind why it hapened and how to deal with it. We've had big problems with biting . A good book for this is Doodle Bites by Polly Dunbar - Doodle gets her mouth taped up in the end - in fact since we got that out the library I don;t think I have been bitten at all!!

susypx

[Curmudgeon]

Some children need holding and reassuring during a meltdown

Others need to be left alone to calm down with you popping in every minute or so with a "when you're calm we can do x"

You just need to work out which one you have (or which tantrum it is)

I would avoid the bed to be honest and just walk away from her as long as she's in a safe place if it's the latter

[Fidgetsmum]

It rarely happened with my daughter but when it did, it was pretty spectacular. She absolutely hated to be hugged, and I didn't want a negative association with her cotbed, or indeed any other part of the house. So, I would remove all things from her vicinity that she might hurt herself on, calmly explain that everything was ok and that I was going to read one of her books and that when she was ready, she could join me. Therefore, I wasn't leaving the room (thereby dealing with the fear of being completely out of control which she was) but I also wasn't giving her any attention at all - no eye contact, no verbal communication, literally nothing other than my presence. I would literally sit and re read the same book (not out loud) over and over. It never failed to work and she would come up quietly and just sit with me and I would start to read the book out loud (sometimes it would take her a good 15 minutes to calm herself down). When I finished the story, I'd reiterate what had happened and why she hadn't got what she wanted and then instantly say 'let's go do ....... ... (something fun)'.

Since she turned 3yrs, I instigated the naughty step as I think the fear of being out of control thing doesn't apply so much any more. And the naughty step has worked wonders!

Good luck.

[cuppa tea]

Quite shocked that people use naughty steps for tantrums to be honest. Are tantrums in themselves naughty? I thought they were just a natural part of a young kids development. Understandable considering the amount of frustrations and lack of autonomy 2/3 year olds have to deal on a very regular basis. I would imagine being left alone when they are totally out of control and don't understand the power of their own emotions is very frightening. You don't have to give in to this or that demand, but surely being understanding of what they are going though and being there is ok? Just because you can change the behaviour and make them say "sorry", doesn't mean they actually feel sorry or remorseful. Supernanny has alot to answer for in my opinion.

[susyp]

I don't remember supernanny using them for tantrums - her approach is you warn over naughty behaviour - if they keep doing it then they are on the naughty step. A tantrum isn't naughty behaviour.

susypx

[Fuschia]

Margot Sunderland differentiates between manipluative tantrums and emotional meltdowns they need help to manage

[helenat1970]

Hi there -

my reckoning is that it's fine to put in cot and to step outside for a minute or two.

A tantrum is what happens to a 2 year old who's experiencing runaway emotions and they have no idea how to rein them in. It's perfectly natural and developmentally appropriate. Problem is, you can't reason a tantrum away. You just need to let it run its course, ideally remove the child from the cause of it. That's why I think taking her to her cot is a good plan. It's removal from the situation. Also, if her fury is directed at you - if she's not seeing you for a couple of minutes, she'll start to forget the issue that's caused the explosion.

Not sure what I think about whether children develop cot phobias. And not sure about telling a child who's in the midst of a tantrum that 'everything is OK'. In their world everything isn't OK - everything is collapsing around them. I don't believe in denying them their emotions - they have a right to tears and screams - trouble is tears and screams and other such behaviour is grating to the parent, and the child should not get to be in a position to abuse this behaviour (to get their own way for something). Hence removal - excellent strategy. And we're only talking a couple of minutes here, surely?

[Fuschia]

helenat1970 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

In their world everything

> isn't OK - everything is collapsing around them. I

> don't believe in denying them their emotions -

> they have a right to tears and screams - trouble

> is tears and screams and other such behaviour is

> grating to the parent, and the child should not

> get to be in a position to abuse this behaviour

> (to get their own way for something). Hence

> removal - excellent strategy.

I am thinking of times when I have been overcome by emotion. Not usually anger, but exhausted frustration ... occasionally in late pg or with newborn baby I found myself in tears or shouting at the other children. Mr F isn't particularly tolerant of this sort of thing, but the best thing for me has been the times he has just given me a big hug and said something soothing. If he just told me to stop and walked away, it would be very hurtful. If I lose it emotionally, I want kind gentle touch... not to be ignored until I have cooled down.

I don't see that a toddler is any different.

[nunheadmum]

Fuschia - don't think you'll be kicking and screaming like a toddler does and as you're expressing yourself, your husband can probably time when to give the big hug! That may not be so easy with a toddler.

It probably depends on the situation and what works for your little one. If it's a manipulative tantrum then yes, leave them alone and don't give any attention. If it's emotional, then try a cuddle but if it's not working, try leaving them somewhere close (so they don't feel abandoned) but where they have space to safely get it out their system, if that's what they need and then return to give cuddles and explanations as they start to calm.

Starting to think though that I treat all tantrums the same way, as manipulative...maybe time to cut the slack on the LO a bit!!

[Fuschia]

Nunheadmum, I agree with you!

[helenat1970]

Fuschia -

I understand where you are coming from - but I'm not talking about ignoring a child - I'm talking about giving them the space to sort themselves out. I've seen tantruming children being constantly placated and talked to and reasoned with .... and my thought has been that for that poor child who is lost in their sea of overwhelming emotion, the last thing they need is to be coaxed and talked at and .. to them it must surely be unhelpful noise - surely giving them the best, chance to calm down is best? And always, always, once they're done with their tantrum, give a big big cuddle, of course!

And of course it depends on the child too. If distraction works, then there is no need for any other tactic.

[Fuschia]

I think sometimes children need to be held while they battle with their feelings... or at least have the parent close by. But you're right, talking and trying to reason isn't generally what's required...

[The Nappy Lady]

This thread has been really interesting as we too are now in the midst of toddler angst.

I have to say we've mostly just ignored tantrums and found they pass quickly, and we always give lots of cuddles and reassurance once we feel the child in question is open to receive them, but I will now be a bit more conscious of what the tantrum is actually about and whether I need to respond differently to it.

I think one of the greatest skills I've now acquired (2nd time around) is being able to sometimes head the tantrum off at the pass so to speak. I know it isn't always possible, but either by diversion, or by not rising to some of the stroppy toddler moments....a typical morning at the moment is;

"Time to get your dressed"

C: "NO, I DON'T WANT TO GET DRESSED"

"OK then, we'll do it later" (walking out the room)

C: "WAAAHHH, I WANT TO GET DRESSED"

Proceeds to happily let me get her dressed.

"Time to go downstairs for breakfast"

C: "I DON'T WANT TO HAVE BREAKFAST"

"OK then, you come down later, but we're going for breakfast now"

C: "WAAAAHHHHH, I WANT BREAKFAST TOO".

LOL......It is so much easier when you've been there before and can

1) see the funny side of it and

2) play them at their own game.

Evil Mummy Smile. ;-)

xx

[Ko]

love it molly - tha made me laugh!!!

[Sanne Panne]

Yes the "ok, fine, I'll leave your room then and go downstairs" thing (if a couple of genuine hugs don't work) is a pretty successful approach here too (it stops the tantrum most of the time) but that's pre-full-tantrum and to be honest we don't get any REAL full-on tantrums. A bit of screaming/kicking once or twice a week but always distractable so I guess that's not a hardcore tantrum. We don't have any parenting methods that we pride ourselves on so it's just luck that our eldest, in spite of her "strong personality" (pppffffff, is it 7:30pm yet?), isn't a big tantrum thrower. Bottom line - there may be some room for negotiation even when the meltdown is happening so it's always worth trying various methods.