Amending working hours to accommodate childcare - why is it almost always the women running around?

[Fuschia]

I earn a fair bit more than my partner, but it was me who went pt after child no 1 was born. Over the years my hours have crept back up but the extra is all worked flexiblt, so I go into work 2 days and work at home as necessary. As I don't have much childcare in place for those days (2h creche, bit of help from SIL) it's very much a juggling act. I do the online grocery shop, the washing, the finances, party and event organising and most of the cooking. Plus all appointments, remembering family birthdays etc. School pick ups, taking children to after school activities. I am the only driver. Do the packed lunches.

Mr F drops child no 1 at school, does any grocery shopping that requires going in person. Tidies (but not a huge amount of cleaning) and gets up first almost every day, these days. Is very hands on witb the children, does all nappies when he is home!

However he is seriously in my bad books since he declared that he doesn't know why I find it sohard to get everything done, as when I was hospitalised pre latest baby he kept it all spotless and found it very easy. I am still seething inside. Perhaps I am just rubbish at it all! Though I suppose anyone can do it perfectly for a week. Not so easy week in week out. Plus of course I was pregnant, and now have a newborn, so often juggling 4 kids whilst cooking etc.. he has only had to manage 3. And babies are quite timeconsuming at times. Trying to shoehorn up to 21h of work work into the weekend, evenings and 3 days when I am with the children, isn't easy either.

I must say I am realky upset with him when he said that. If he really thinks that and lets slip again, I will be reconsidering my position here as slave and general skivvy!

[littleEDfamily]

I'm nosey, Fuschia; why did you choose to go PT if you earned more? Was it a maternal thing?

[Belle]

Ooh Fuschia that would really rile me too! I think as you say it's very different doing one week, and plus as you weren't there to witness, who's to say how well things were being organised etc?! I know e.g. when my husband is in charge of my son for the day, or my mum, I am always amazed that they manage so well - mum will rearrange the cupboard under the stairs, whip up some soup and cook my son lunch and tea from scratch, then do our dinner without breaking a sweat - but then I remember that it is ALWAYS easier to attack these challenges 'fresh', whereas for those of us doing it day in day out, juggling short, medium and long term 'deadlines' in our heads constantly, it's much harder. My mum always says 'let me do it, it's only one day/week for me' - think there's a lot in that.

Saila - interesting theory re our mums etc. My mum was a SAHM mum, which I am mostly, but ironically she hated it! She always looks back and says she wished she hadn't stayed out of work so long, and remembers going crazy with committees/playgroup rotas etc, for her sanity. She had a hard time understanding my decision when I decided not to go back to my old job.

[Saila]

Belle

Absolutely - and there are probably more examples of the opposite (i.e woman wanting to work despite having SAHMs for mothers)

just out of interest - did your mum think that at the time, or in retrospect? Say after a few years?

It might be that one day you'll think more like your mum perhaps? or perhaps not. Just thinking out loud.

[Keef]

However he is seriously in my bad books since he declared that he doesn't know why I find it sohard to get everything done, as when I was hospitalised pre latest baby he kept it all spotless and found it very easy.

Heh, I made the mistak of saying something like that to Mrs Keef once. I haven't done it again!

[littleEDfamily]

It is an interesting point, Saila. My mum was a teacher and saw herself as a professional (definitely not the 'get any old cash through the door' school of thought), and, although she worked, school teacher's hours (back in the 70s/ 80s anyway) meant she was always there for us as older children. As younger children, we were looked after by my grandparents and aunt a lot. In that respect, I can feel myself wanting to recreate what my parents had (ie being able to work knowing they had the best quality, loving, free childcare 5 minutes away). I desperately want to do more work, and I would definitely do so if I had the same level of family support, and, as my family lives overseas, I sometimes dream about my in laws saying 'why don't I have the kids a day or two a week'? Not going to happen, though and I get quite cross about it. If we had more help, the pressure on hubby and I to juggle it between ourselves would lessen enormously. But in it's absence, I know it's my job to do what Fuschia does while still pursuing my professional dreams. I can't bear the thought of my kids ever saying about me (as so many of my friends have said about their mums) 'she's just a mum'. I think, as well as the financial imperative, that's why so many of us women run ourselves ragged....

[Belle]

Hmm, I think she did it because she felt it was expected. she was a teacher and was actually told to stop work at 6 months pregnant by her bosses, and didn't go back until I was six (I was the younger child) - so 10 years out. She says in retrospect she was a bit depressed being at home so long, and when she did go back it was a long road - many years before she was granted a 'permanent' position. I must ask her though if it felt 'right 'at the time or if she missed work. I think we're different because I'd already decided I didn't want to continue the particular line of work I was doing, which played a part in my decision, whereas she wanted to, and did, return to the same career. Plus, she was about 5 years younger than me with her first child. So prob felt she hadn't had much of a taste of working life before becoming a SAHM.

But actually what I meant is that despite having different reasons, I think your theory holds true for me and my mum anyway - if she'd gone back to work in her time, I might have found it harder to be a SAHM when it came to be becoming a mum. As it was I did feel that in telling her and many others of that generation, that I was somehow letting the side down.

[Belle]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

--I can't bear the thought of my kids ever saying

> about me (as so many of my friends have said about

> their mums) 'she's just a mum'. I think, as well

> as the financial imperative, that's why so many of

> us women run ourselves ragged....

That's an interesting point. I can honestly say that to my surprise, I've not worried about this so far.

[Fuschia]

littleEDfamily Wrote:

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> I'm nosey, Fuschia; why did you choose to go PT if

> you earned more? Was it a maternal thing?

Must have been!I did have a longer commute... but I just never considered going back ft and having child no 1 in ft childcare. He only ever did 3 days p/w max.

[Saila]

.. yes - age must be a lot to do with any differences

we are having kids a lot older, perhaps we've had more opportunity to climb the ladder and taste freedom...

whereas our mums were torn away from (work) life much earlier on?

[Fuschia]

Keef Wrote:

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>

> Heh, I made the mistak of saying something like

> that to Mrs Keef once. I haven't done it again!

You have more sense than MrF then!

[supergolden88]

Before I got pregnant the first time I was Art Director of a small magazine publishing company. I was working 8am to 8pm and I was not working I was constantly thinking about work. When I got pregnant a year into the job thing got worse as we were launching new magazines etc. My stress levels were through the roof. After I had my daughter I decided not to go back to my job partly because I had concerns about the company but mostly because I knew that I would not be able to fit work around childcare (ironic that both bosses were women).

I went freelance when baby was 8 months and at nursery. Working freelance is brilliant as you can work from home but what happens of course is that you work twice as hard turning no work down and doing all house related chores as well as nursery pick ups (hubby did drop offs). If I was given more options at work I would not necessarily choose to stay home because of illness/childcare issues. Edited to add here that my husband does all he can to share childcare but he hates leaving early or going in late because of school/nursery closures or illness etc. Hates it because he will get no understanding and will have to work insane hours at home to make up for it - something he does frequently staying up till 3-4am.

Now I have a new baby boy I was so concerned about telling my clients I was pregnant and therefore unable to take on work for a time that I never told them about it and continued to work through it all. I was laying out a book three days after the birth. Now I realise this is extreme and quite possibly insane but I do want it all. I love my baby to bits but I love working as well and balancing the two has been very hard at times.

[Smiler]

KatsuQueen Wrote:

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> When Minikatsu was born,

> I thought - what would I do if money was no

> object? How would I live my life? Would I like to

> stay home and concentrate on raising children? Or

> would I want to do more? and the answer was,

> staying at home all the time to look after

> children would not be my choice. Money, or lack of

> money, is only one factor.

>

Like this way of thinking about things KatsuQueen! I would stay at home for 2/3rds of the time, but have on-call help available from an army of lovely nannies, chefs, entertainers, cupboard-clearers, cleaners etc. etc.! The other 1/3rd of the time I would do a fun, sociable job with minimal responsibility.

Fuschia, perhaps Mr Fuschia should do the tasks more regularly if he finds is so easy...

[Fuschia]

Smiler Wrote:

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>

> Fuschia, perhaps Mr Fuschia should do the tasks

> more regularly if he finds is so easy...

I do feel a bit like going on strike

Mind you my sister said when she came here while I was giving birth, she had to collect dirty clothes from every room to wash them!

[reneet]

supergolden88 Wrote:

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> Before I got pregnant the first time I was Art

> Director of a small magazine publishing company. I

> was working 8am to 8pm and I was not working I was

> constantly thinking about work. When I got

> pregnant a year into the job thing got worse as we

> were launching new magazines etc. My stress levels

> were through the roof. After I had my daughter I

> decided not to go back to my job partly because I

> had concerns about the company but mostly because

> I knew that I would not be able to fit work around

> childcare (ironic that both bosses were women).

>

> I went freelance when baby was 8 months and at

> nursery. Working freelance is brilliant as you can

> work from home but what happens of course is that

> you work twice as hard turning no work down and

> doing all house related chores as well as nursery

> pick ups (hubby did drop offs). If I was given

> more options at work I would not necessarily

> choose to stay home because of illness/childcare

> issues. Edited to add here that my husband does

> all he can to share childcare but he hates leaving

> early or going in late because of school/nursery

> closures or illness etc. Hates it because he will

> get no understanding and will have to work insane

> hours at home to make up for it - something he

> does frequently staying up till 3-4am.

>

> Now I have a new baby boy I was so concerned about

> telling my clients I was pregnant and therefore

> unable to take on work for a time that I never

> told them about it and continued to work through

> it all. I was laying out a book three days after

> the birth. Now I realise this is extreme and quite

> possibly insane but I do want it all. I love my

> baby to bits but I love working as well and

> balancing the two has been very hard at times.

I think we should not blame partners, my hubby is "happy" to stay home and take care of out daughter when she is ill, but he will have to make up the time, he has to work from home. When I do it, everyone is very understanding and I even have childcare breakdown leave/ or carers leave. And endure a bi hourly call from me checking up on them.

With the Job thing, I have to go on maternity leave in a few months, I am currently involved in a big project and getting someone up to speed on my role on the project will be very hard and to make it worse my leave cover will not start until i leave meaning I have to handover to one of the team members who already have a heavy workload.

I am confused and not making my point here. I think we cannot have it all, something will have to give.

[littleEDfamily]

I am a big fan of older women (a proper granny magnet, I am just drawn to the wisdom of age), and I love this quote from one of the random grannies I have met on my travels:

"You can have it all, dear, just not all at the same time".

Goodnight forum.

[zeban]

YES littleEDfamily I completely agree with that quote, and knowing that makes me feel very content.

I think it's also good to accept and embrace the changes in circumstances and identity that come with life changes because I'm guessing children does change you as a person and I love the idea of constantly changing and evolving throughout my life because you're constantly learning new things about yourself.

But maybe I feel that way because I don't identify myself/ my identity through my job which I think alot of people do in this country, and particularly in London. It's pretty much the second question you're asked when you meet someone- 'so what do you do?'. In other countries people don't do this, and many even see as rude- one of my friends lives in Israel and says it's rude there to ask such a question.

Feminists gave us choices and for that I am eternally grateful. So being just a Mum really shouldn't be seen or felt as something that doesn't give women self esteem.

I also have a feeling there might be more men than we might think who would like to be stay at home Dads...

p.s. I LOVE old women too! I learn so much from them.

[supergolden88]

My point - if I indeed had one having not had much sleep past few days - is that while I love being a mum I love work as well and feel very frustrated by the lack of choices we get as working mums. I gave up a fulfilling but ultimately frustrating job to be mum and would not have had enough support from employers to go back to same role after maternity. I know lots of women who went back to work only to diascover they were made redundant /refused flexible hours etc.

I think the reason it is nearly always women amending work hours to accommodate childcare is that once we take maternity leave we find our choices limited unless money is no object. Having said that I know more than a few couples who are sharing the childcare role by both working part time and taking care of the children on alternate days.

When I say I want it both - being a mum and having a job I love - I realise it is practically impossible. Baby was up 95% of last night for example and if I get my new project today I certainly won't be able to do much about it!

And I feel I should clarify that the reason I did not take a break from freelancing this time around was that having spent four years building a steady freelance contact base I felt very insecure about stopping work because once you refuse a few projects you get very quickly forgotten about.

Edited for content/spelling etc. Can't believe I tried to post at 1.30am with baby nursing at same time. Damn auto correct!

[Carbonara]

Blimey.

I am surprised a modern family can survive with 2 working parents if there is not absolute equality of responsibility for all the 'extras'. That doesn't man to say that every task has to be shared, or that what is fair is always what is equal (especially where partners earn different amounts or work a different number of days, in which case it maybe 'fair' that they contribute a pro rata amount , rather than equal).

We are both full time working parents, both have taken equal responsibility for covering illness, sorting out childcare, covering the birthday parties, buying the presents, hosting other children for tea, attending health visitor appointments for weigh-ins, and so on.

My professional working friend has a male partner who has not yet changed the nappy of their one year old. They have no childcare. He has viewed her time on maternity leave as a transition to a very differnt dynamic between them, has not adjusted this habit as she has re-started her paid job, and my prediction is that she will be burnt out within 6 months and / or they will divorce if something doesn't change quickly.

[Keef]

Not yet changed a nappy of a 1 year old. That is absolutely unbelievable! Even if a partner doesn't do their fair share, I can't believe they'd never change a single nappy. What a bastard.

[Fuschia]

I think most couples have some division of duties based on aptitude/inclination I quite like cleaning the bathroom for eg and am anal about the washing but MrF always does the bins (I hate it)

How you balance out all these tasks and calculate a % share, I don't know!

[Keef]

Ha ha, I do the bins. I quite enjoy hoovering and steam cleaning. Don't like hanging washing on the dryer for some reason.

[Saila]

There's something about the y-chromosome that disengages male brains when it comes to hanging clothes out to dry

My 13 mnth old son (very sweetly) copied me the other day by putting a pile of laundry on the horse

I can honestly say it was no worse than when his dad does it (nearly 40yrs old)

[new mother]

Saila, hilarious.....

Fuschia, Did you ever SEE this spotless house or was it just referred to in conversation? (!)

[Fuschia]

Saila Wrote:

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> There's something about the y-chromosome that

> disengages male brains when it comes to hanging

> clothes out to dry

> My 13 mnth old son (very sweetly) copied me the

> other day by putting a pile of laundry on the

> horse

> I can honestly say it was no worse than when his

> dad does it (nearly 40yrs old)

for some reason mr f prefers to drape clothes on the furniture to dry...