Queen's Speech

[JohnL]

Barnett formula I think it is.

They've bypassed that apparently somehow - but Wales First minister has already put in a huge moan.

[rendelharris]

Think the Barnett formula is for calculating extras based on what England, or sometimes England and Wales, spend - so if there's X amount extra spent on public services in England then Scotland, Wales and N.Ireland are all entitled to a rise in proportion. I don't think it applies between the devolved governments - in any case it's only advisory, not statutory.

[JohnL]

I'm not sure Damian Green realises how badly what he's saying will go down.

He's making out they gave money to NI out of generosity - we all know it was a deal.

[Loz]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> How do you know the scottish tories won't go for a hard brexit BB

Not a chance. Ruth Davidson has already declared her hand on that one.

[Blah Blah]

The DUP bribe is shameful but May is damned if shes does and damned if she doesn't. But at every budget, any plans to take meals away from kids, to take fuel allowances away from the elderly, in fact any talk of cuts or more austerity, will be met with how easy it was to find ?1bn to buy DUP votes.

[uncleglen]

What's the difference between paying NI ?1bn (they ALL benefit not just protestants) and Corbyn bribing students with no uni fees? Every student would be gifted ?36,000 potentially, as they would take full advantage and go for the max.- ?9,000 a year each for 4 years. The cost of tuition is probably a lot higher so they are already being subsidised- it actually costs ?360,000 to train a doctor for example.

The UK cannot afford Corbyn and his ilk

[JohnL]

It was in his manifesto.

[Blah Blah]

The difference UG us that it was a manifesto pledge, and all parties, as you are aware, offer policies that appeal to a level of self interest in those they think will vote for them. In return they are scrutinised on those pledges and have to make the case for how they will pay for them. The public then decide if they agree or not through the ballot box

?1bn to NI was not in any manifesto. It is a fee being paid in return for parliamentary support. That is something completely different.

[uncleglen]

Since neither of them gained an outright majority (although Theresa May got a larger share of the votes this time than David Cameron when he won last time) then it is not strictly necessary for them to adhere to their manifesto. Any way I don't begrudge Northern Ireland the money- it is spread over 2 years and they will need it to sort out their border after Brexit

There is a breakdown on the spending plans down the page

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/news/2017/06/26/arlene-foster-meet-theresa-may-finalise-dup-deal-prop-tory-minority/

[Loz]

It's interesting that a lot of the reaction (not here, thankfully) has been along the lines of "see, there is a magic money tree", presumably to somehow justify Corbyn's profligate spending propositions.

But there is no magic money tree. That DUP billion is a billion less being spent in more deserving areas. That's the tragedy.

And it was unnecessary. The DUP were never going to bring down the government given the latest opinion polls and the deal doesn't cover anything more than supply and confidence, with Brexit legislation bolted on.

[Earl Aelfheah]

May's unnecessary election cost taxpayers ?270m pounds. The Conservatives' failure has cost us another billion pounds in the form of a bribe to the DUP. The first thing the Tories do with their bought votes is to keep a pay freeze in place for Drs, nurses, firefighters, police officers, soldiers and other public servants. Their own pay is excluded of course (MPs have had an 11% pay rise). All this and they cheer the result and jeer the opposition as if they were school children. Whatever one might think about the merits of relaxing the pay cap after six years, the sheer lack of awareness about the manner in which they've acted, the way they've conducted themselves and the message it sends to people, is really quite breathtaking.

[Earl Aelfheah]

Loz Wrote:

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> there is no magic money tree.

...quantitative easing.... anyway:

Everyone understands that if you spend more you have to fund it somehow (either through higher taxes and or borrowing). Corbyn was arguing for both, quite openly and he published costings against his spending plans. Now one can debate whether or not they stacked up, but at least he explained how he proposed to pay for his policies so that debate could take place. The Tories wouldn't even discuss it, provided no costings and refused to open their plans up to public scrutiny. In that context the childish 'magic money tree' put down comes across as rather pathetic.

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Since neither of them gained an outright majority

> (although Theresa May got a larger share of the

> votes this time than David Cameron when he won

> last time)

Desperate straw clutching again! Labour also got a far higher share of the vote than Cameron achieved in 2015 (40% to 36.8%) and nearly a million more votes. I know you're licking your wounds over there on the right but better to face what's happened manfully than desperately trying to seek some chimeric mandate which simply doesn't exist.

[Lordship 516]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Any way I don't

> begrudge Northern Ireland the money- it is spread

> over 2 years and they will need it to sort out

> their border after Brexit

HaHaHa - you think..?

Don't worry - they'll be back for more to sort out the border issues..!

[uncleglen]

Part of the cost of the border issue swill need to be stumped up by the EU since it is their border.

I'm not licking any wounds over here on the pragmatic 'right' - common sense will, and thankfully, is,despite the noisy rabble on the left- prevailing- we cannot afford a Labour government and all it stands for.

[Alan Medic]

It is their border? You're joking. They don't even want it and neither does either part of Ireland.

[Sue]

uncleglen Wrote:

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>we cannot afford a Labour government and all it stands for.

"All it stands for"??

That would be reducing the ever-widening gap between the rich and poor in this country, ensuring people's homes are safe to live in without risking being burned to death, and having decent health care and education for all, not just for those people who can afford to go privately?

And improving the national rail services?

And not suddenly finding a billion pounds from an apparently non-existent magic money tree which could have been used to increase the wages of people like nurses who are having to use food banks to survive?

No, we definitely can't afford any of that.

FFS.

Bring it on, before this country goes even further down the drain.

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> Part of the cost of the border issue swill need to

> be stumped up by the EU since it is their border.

You still don't get it, do you...? The cost for N Ireland will be far, far higher. It'll make very little difference to the EU. Why do out think the DUP are so keen on a Brexit which keeps the border unchanged? Seriously, do you know why?

And now they've taken a billion pounds of our money to get what they want.

> I'm not licking any wounds over here on the

> pragmatic 'right' - common sense will, and

> thankfully, is,despite the noisy rabble on the

> left- prevailing- we cannot afford a Labour

> government and all it stands for.

So you think it's ok to fuck up an election (which you did) and then have to pay a billion pounds (of our money - what programs get cut to fund it I wonder?) in order to prop up an unpopular PM and somehow salvage a Brexit that will constantly be at risk of destruction by rebels on both sides? You really think that was worth it?

You understand nothing about the DUP, and about the danger we are now in. Foolish. For someone who so often claims to be on the side of the little people and who wants equality on society, you throw it away remarkably fast when you think it means you can get what you want. As Sue says, how many NHS salaries does ?200,000,000 per year pay? Or how many teacher salaries? Hmmm?

[JohnL]

Sorry but when the Tory MP's were laughing and cheering yesterday because the public sector pay rise cap was kept at 1%, it did come across as offensive.

[Lordship 516]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> It is their border? You're joking. They don't even

> want it and neither does either part of Ireland.

UG & many others in the UK don't have any understanding about the DUP & their runners in NI.

They have one cant "NO SURRENDER, NEVER, NEVER, NEVER" When they say this they are very serious about it.

There is no negotiation - it's always their way or the highway. That is what caused decades [even centuries] of needless misery in NI with collusion from the conservative/ascendancy class. They did the same to Thearse May, are doing the same to Sinn F?in today & will do the same in the future. You must ask yourself - Why did so many businesses run away from NI..? Simply because they couldn't put up with the straight-jacket of so-called Unionist/Loyalist politics & restrictions there. NI has always had the same opportunities open to them as Ireland but the businesses always opt to go to Ireland as it has a non-judgemental pluralist society. The UK has had to pump millions annually into keeping the few industries that are there, in place.

Ireland care about their relationship with NI but have to bow to the realpolitik that exists. However, the EU will support Ireland in relation to any deficits they will experience due to Brexit conditions - they are already negotiating on that; they are in a strong position in this as they hold the key to the continuation of the EU. If Ireland pulled out in parallel with the UK as some suggest, the ramifications for the EU are too great to even imagine.

It is NI which will suffer & the DUP/Loyalist camp have no concept of needing to reach a pragmatic accommodation with anyone. They always take money today and bugger the rest. They have ruled the roost in NI for a long, long time & have never conceded anything to anyone for any reason. NI will be the poorer for it & the rest of the UK will end up paying...& paying...& paying...

[JohnL]

U Turn incoming - Free Abortions for NI Women in UK amendment seems to be in Queens speech now - Government looked like it was going to lose that amendment.

[red devil]

Things are looking up, at least it was better than yesterday's U-turn on a U-turn :

I see that Corbybabes had his own revolt today, front benches sacked for disobeying the whip...tut tut

I can see Brexit ripping both the Tories and Labour apart...

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Sorry but when the Tory MP's were laughing and

> cheering yesterday because the public sector pay

> rise cap was kept at 1%, it did come across as

> offensive.

As offensive as Corbyn playing political point scoring games with the Grenfell disaster?

[Loz]

rahrahrah Wrote:

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> Loz Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > there is no magic money tree.

>

> ...quantitative easing.... anyway:

If you think QE is a magic money tree, then you don't understand QE.

[Lordship 516]

Loz Wrote:

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> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Loz Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> >

> > > there is no magic money tree.

> >

> > ...quantitative easing.... anyway:

>

> If you think QE is a magic money tree, then you

> don't understand QE.

It has been a magic money tree for the banks & the richest 5% of the UK population who creamed 40% of the benefits.

Trickledown did not happen ... & does not happen...QE has been a failure for most of the population & has been a massive transfer/maintenance of wealth for the already wealthy...

For the rest of the population it merely resulted in a devaluation of their megre assets & the erosion of their incomes...

Sorry Loz...it is you who needs to understand the consequences of QE...

On top of all that you have the devaluation of the ?...coming up a little for now but destined to further fall over the next few months...