Brexit View

[zerkalo]

I am one of those EU citizens who, having lived in the UK for many years, are now forced to apply to stay in their own homes. While scrapping the ?65 fee is welcome, this does not make it any better knowing that we are treated like second rate citizens despite paying our taxes like law-abiding British citizens do. Vote Leave had promised that nothing would change for EU citizens and this is a big change. Frankly I am very frustrated about all this to the point I have applied for British citizenship because I can very well see a new Windrush scandal waiting to happen with all those who, for whatever reason, will not be documented by the deadline imposed by the government.

On the positive side, I am very happy to be able to vote in the next GE. And it's going to be one vote the Tories will never get. Though at the moment Corbyn is doing his best not to get mine either.

oeLeg Wrote:

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> To judge from the (comparatively extremely small)

> sample of EU citizens that I know well, none of

> them seem particularly annoyed or offended by it,

> any more than by any other piece of admin they

> have to deal with.

>

> They do feel that the govt could have handled the

> whole thing better, but they?re hardly alone in

> that.

>

> However, a dozen or so immigrants in south east

> London is hardly a statiscally acceptable number

> so I could be wrong.

[uncleglen]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Dropping the fee was welcomed but what our EU

> friends are still annoyed about is that they have

> to apply not register. Applications could be

> refused.

>

> Post Windrush, you?d think the powers that be

> would know better.

Why are they annoyed? There are a fair number of undesirables who have been attracted to this liberal charitable country of ours...even the Romanian mayor thanked the UK for taking the Romanian criminals- where my sister lives in Essex they are sick of the anti-social behaviour in their neighbourhood alone.

[JohnL]

The EU have gone all Spice Girls

?We expect the United Kingdom to tell us what they want, what they really, really want,? said Margaritis Schinas."

In an attempt to get May to listen for once in her life she then broke into song (I wish)

"If you want a future, forget your past

If you wanna get with me, better make it fast

Now don't go wasting my precious time

Get your act together we could be just fine"

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

...even the

> Romanian mayor thanked the UK for taking the

> Romanian criminals

Romania's run by a mayor, eh? Sounds about as likely as most things you claim. In the absence of a single hit on Google for "Romanian mayor thanks UK for taking criminals" or "Did Romanian mayor thank UK for taking criminals" I'm calling your usual bullshit. Citation or retraction please.

[Sephiroth]

"Why are they annoyed? There are a fair number of undesirables who have been attracted to this liberal charitable country of ours...even the Romanian mayor thanked the UK for taking the Romanian criminals- where my sister lives in Essex they are sick of the anti-social behaviour in their neighbourhood alone."

Hard to find a single syllable of this that isn't racist or xenophobic - but then look who it's from. Some times the ball and the man are the same damned thing

On a point about people who have been living here for decades, paying taxes, forming lifelong relationships, having kids, free to move around who suddenly find themselves having to apply to stay here, old Unc here decides to start prattling on about forrin' criminals in Essex. Did Essex not have any anti-socials or criminals before then Unc?

The fact that the country is so imperiled by Brexit is bad enough - that it's happening to appease bigots like thos fool is beyond comprehension

technically, as I'm Irish, I "get a pass" from having to apply. But we all know that's for now don't we Unc? Already we Irish are causing problems for you proud bulldogs and that won't be forgotten

[JohnL]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> technically, as I'm Irish, I "get a pass" from

> having to apply. But we all know that's for now

> don't we Unc? Already we Irish are causing

> problems for you proud bulldogs and that won't be

> forgotten

the advantage of being Irish (either side of the border) is you can apply for dual nationality and keep freedom of movement.

I'd do it but only Welsh and a little English :)

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> keano77 Wrote

>

> Why are they annoyed? There are a fair number of

> undesirables who have been attracted to this

> liberal charitable country of ours...even the

> Romanian mayor thanked the UK for taking the

> Romanian criminals- where my sister lives in Essex

> they are sick of the anti-social behaviour in

> their neighbourhood alone.

Interesting. I know someone who runs a succcesful restaurant and hotel in Essex; she says a lot of the local Brits are workshy layabouts who want something for nothing, and as a result she staffs mostly with immigrants. She herself came here from Russia fifteen years ago.

I?ve got two Romanians working for me right now, and there?s a well known restaurant in Peckham that?s basically - behimd the scenes - run by a Romanian chef who works about seventy hours a week because the English owners are lazy.

Still, send ?em all back, eh? British jobs for British workers! Who, erm, don?t seem up to it...

[Sephiroth]

I'm Irish but my partner and kids are all English - and yes we can join the queue for them to get Irish passports - but if that's a benefit, why are we giving it up?

And that's all just the admin - it's the wider implications that bother me far more - as I say, irish are deemed "ok" for now. BUt we all know where this is going

If you could show footage of what's happening in the commons now (now deal, regsitering citizens, army plans, kent car parks etc) to voters pre-referendum so it wasn't just project fear - not a chance this dumb, crazy idea would have gotten close to winning the vote

[Blah Blah]

Yeah, Uncleglen does it again. Manages to insult the vast majority of settled EU migrants whilst hitting his usual sweet spot of racist bigotry.

[TheCat]

keano77 Wrote:

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> Is TheCat confused with Australia?s participation

> in the European Song Contest?

>

> That?s a point, will we be banned from the contest

> if we leave?

If anyone does actually care (I'm sure you don't!), TheCat is a dual Italian and Australian citizen. Who has resided on these grey and drizzly shores for nearly 15 years. I will need to apply to stay here as a settled EU immigrant despite having a very British wife and two very British kids, and an Australian accent.

As an aside, its very tough when I choose to read 'progressive' papers like the Guardian or hang out with my wife's 'right-on' friends...as I'm both an EU immigrant, but also a white colonial...so am never quite sure if I can claim to be the oppressor or the oppressed....

[Alan Medic]

TheCat, is it not easier for you to stay here as an Aussie? You would have had a vote in the referendum unlike EU citizens. A while back I heard an Aussie on the radio saying he voted to Leave as he thought it would make staying in the UK easier for him.

[TheCat]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> TheCat, is it not easier for you to stay here as

> an Aussie? You would have had a vote in the

> referendum unlike EU citizens. A while back I

> heard an Aussie on the radio saying he voted to

> Leave as he thought it would make staying in the

> UK easier for him.

No, easier to use the EU path Alan, and I guess this goes to my point about not being annoyed about 'applying' for settled status as an EU citizen. That process is now free, and appears to involve relatively little admin, with a relatively quick turnaround.

If I want to stay here by other means I can apply for 'indefinite leave to remain' in my Aussie passport, but many other Aussies tell me is a soul destroying and onerous process, or I can apply for my British Citizenship and passport (either on the basis of marriage, or my own British ancestry - yes, im a real mix!), but this is of course also a more involved process with a longer turnaround, and I would also have to choose which of my other passports to give up, as you cant have three nationalities as I understand.

So all in all, the relatively quick and painless EU settled status process is fine with me. Hence why I dont really understand why people are moaning about it, particularly now that its free.

All this chat about "I've lived here for X years and I've paid my taxes, so how dare they make me apply to stay here"...what a load of cr@p ....So what if you've paid your taxes???!! (if you hadn't of you'd be breaking the law...so do you deserve special treatment for abiding by the rule of law?). At the end of the day, you're an immigrant, just like me, so a small bit of admin doesn't seem like an unreasonable ask to me.

[Sephiroth]

Cat

You are an immigrant and faced all of the challenges that that entails

Some of us moved around countries which had freedom of movement. That has been taken away from us. That is a material change

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Cat

>

> You are an immigrant and faced all of the

> challenges that that entails

>

> Some of us moved around countries which had

> freedom of movement. That has been taken away from

> us. That is a material change

To me, "moved around countries" = migration. I still came here based on 'Freedom of movement' using my EU citizenship, so the rules I came here by are no different to you, it doesnt matter whether I moved from Dublin, Dubrovnik or Dubbo. My situation has changed just the same as it has for any other EU migrant.

But different strokes and all that, so agree to disagree on that one then I guess.

[JohnL]

TheCat Wrote:

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> Sephiroth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Cat

> >

> > You are an immigrant and faced all of the

> > challenges that that entails

> >

> > Some of us moved around countries which had

> > freedom of movement. That has been taken away

> from

> > us. That is a material change

>

> To me, "moved around countries" = migration. I

> still came here based on 'Freedom of movement'

> using my EU citizenship, so the rules I came here

> by are no different to you, it doesnt matter

> whether I moved from Dublin, Dubrovnik or Dubbo.

> My situation has changed just the same as it has

> for any other EU migrant.

>

> But different strokes and all that, so agree to

> disagree on that one then I guess.

As a UK citizen - in my view my own personal EU citizenship has been stolen from me.

[Alan Medic]

JohnL Wrote:

>

> As a UK citizen - in my view my own personal EU

> citizenship has been stolen from me.

At this stage it's still only attempted robbery.

[alex_b]

TheCat Wrote:

> as you cant have three

> nationalities as I understand.

You can (my son does).

[JohnL]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

>

> >

> > As a UK citizen - in my view my own personal EU

> > citizenship has been stolen from me.

>

> At this stage it's still only attempted robbery.

True

AT first there was talk of individual citizenship but it all got discarded (too difficult ?).

[JoeLeg]

TheCat wrote

I

> still came here based on 'Freedom of movement'

> using my EU citizenship

Did you come to the UK from Australia using EU FOM rules?

[diable rouge]

Cat, apologies for getting it wrong about your EU citizenship, what a tangled web you weave...:)

[TheCat]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> TheCat wrote

>

> I

> > still came here based on 'Freedom of movement'

> > using my EU citizenship

>

>

> Did you come to the UK from Australia using EU FOM

> rules?

Yes. When I arrive at the UK border I pull out my Italian passport to enter the country. Doesn't matter what country I've flown from.

[JoeLeg]

This isn't meant as a dig, but do you not see a contradiction in your position that you're voting to end FOM (I acknowledge that wasn't your only reason for voting Leave), while you yourself were able to take advantage of the same FOM beforehand to enter the country without needing a visa? If you'd been 100% Ozzie it would get more complicated for you.

It seems slightly like bolting the stable door behind you.

[TheCat]

JoeLeg Wrote:

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> This isn't meant as a dig, but do you not see a

> contradiction in your position that you're voting

> to end FOM (I acknowledge that wasn't your only

> reason for voting Leave), while you yourself were

> able to take advantage of the same FOM beforehand

> to enter the country without needing a visa? If

> you'd been 100% Ozzie it would get more

> complicated for you.

>

> It seems slightly like bolting the stable door

> behind you.

You can call it a contradiction if you like. I call it voting against my own self-interest because I felt more strongly about other issues than just the ease with which I can move around Europe, including the ease with which I am able to live here legally. As I've said in an earlier post, I don't want to reduce immigration per se, I just would like to see it controlled and measured, which (theoretically) can allow for better planning of schools, hospitals, roads and other public infrastructure.

Also, I think some posters are getting slightly confused because I also have Australian citizenship. My residency here is purely and solely based on my Italian citizenship. Being an Australian as well doesn't allow me any residency rights at all, and doesn't make me any less of an Italian, as compared with someone who might be "100% Italian" to use your wording.

[snowy]

"You can call it a contradiction if you like. I call it voting against my own self-interest because I felt more strongly about other issues than just the ease with which I can move around Europe, including the ease with which I am able to live here legally.

As I've said in an earlier post, I don't want to reduce immigration per se, I just would like to see it controlled and measured, which (theoretically) can allow for better planning of schools, hospitals, roads and other public infrastructure."

All of which is currently available (if not applied by the UK Govt) under our EU membership.

[diable rouge]

To be fair Cat, as you yourself posted earlier, you do have 'other options' to remain here should FOM end, with those safety nets you weren't really voting against your own self-interest...