Brexit View

[Blah Blah]

I would go as far to as to say that failure to reach agreement has to be a vote of NC in the government. Any trade deal, or transition arrangement, has to be agreed by October of next year. Waiting until March to solve the NI border issue is just not an option.

[Earl Aelfheah]

So everyone born in Northern Ireland will retain their right to EU citizenship? What about those born in London?

[Earl Aelfheah]

So the new 'brexit deal' says that in the absence of a later agreement, the UK will ensure ?full alignment? with the rules of the customs union and single market, but will categorically be leaving both the customs union and single market. So we're just changing the words and removing any involvement we might have had in negotiating the rules we're 'aligned' to?

[JohnL]

duplicate post

[JohnL]

Neither side is going to be really happy with that. I can hear the 'sellout' chants on twitter and I haven't even looked at my phone today.

[Earl Aelfheah]

It's going to start falling apart in days.

[JohnL]

Removal van outside No10 LOL (it's probably delivering)

Acme Removal Company.

[JohnL]

It's unraveling as we speak. Brits abroad can have rights in one state but cannot move to another in the EU.

[JohnL]

Farage "A deal in Brussels is good news for Mrs May as we can now move on to the next stage of humiliation."

Come on Nigel back Britain.

[vito]

so one question to the expert:

what has changed in compare to last monday??

1- we have found an agreement on money, that s a fact

2- regarding EU citizen in UK problem was wether they be subject to UK laws only or to european laws! what s the different outcome now???

3- border with NI: EU was waiting to know how UK wanted to fix problem with the border. So what s the solution now??

IS that the Brexit is brexit UK has been voted for? ..or perhaps EU sees May s government collapse as a disaster and so decided to move on to phase 2 just to keep her alive....??

I personally don t see any improvement as we still don t know about EU citizens and viceversa..we still don t know how it s gonna work without hard border

If you know..let me know

[vito]

....also but this question might take a new threat to start:

How comes nobody over the years has been capable to sack Boris Johnson? he is an embarrassment but still nobody can get rid off him. Not only...Boris can put red lines and has a say over everybody including PM..

What s his secret power? how comes he is so powerful although so stupidly embarrassing for the nation???

I really don t understand that. Other MP have been sacked for lot less than he does/says in the first couple of hrs in any due day..

He seemed politically dead many times but than always called back even by his enemies ....How comes???

[Blah Blah]

The only way out of his is through a place of consensus, and that can only mean a soft brexit. May held out as long as she could for her hard brexit backbenchers, but the reality is that hard Brexit will damage the economy for 5-10 years and it is not those millionaire Tory backbenchers who will pay the cost of that. I hate to say it, but I think she personally has done ok at the 11th hour. Whether it holds though, remains to be seen. Farage is already piping up about it.

[Blah Blah]

Yes, Bojo seems untouchable and I think none of us really understand why.

[vito]

so what has actually changed in compare to monday?

[JohnL]

Twitter full of howls of betrayal and traitor from brexiters and especially Leave.EU who are apoplectic

Remainers saying we're staying in the single market (don't know where they're getting that from)

It all seems a fudge to me :)

[JohnL]

Maybe this from the Guardian explains it

"The first, and biggest, concession is buried in paragraph 49 of the 15-page report published early on Friday morning. Its implications will be anything but quiet in the weeks to come, for it undermines the prime minister?s previous insistence that Britain will be leaving the single market.

It states clearly: ?In the absence of agreed solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full alignment with those rules of the internal market and the customs union.? In other words, the UK may not be a member of the single market, or have any direct ability to shape its rules in future, but it could yet have to play by them in perpetuity."

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/08/not-much-remain-theresa-may-red-lines-brexit-deal

[Blah Blah]

Yes quite.

I made the mistake of venturing into the Daily Express comments section and saw no end of rabid leave supporters there, calling London 'Londonistan' - how original. But at some point, someone in government has to grow a pair and get this done. Hard brexit was never going to be the best solution, and those that want it, can 'go whistle' lol.

[Alan Medic]

vito Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> so what has actually changed in compare to monday?

The DUP used their bluff on Monday. Didn't work twice.

[Loz]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> vito Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > so what has actually changed in compare to monday?

>

> The DUP used their bluff on Monday. Didn't work twice.

I think the DUP have done everyone a ruddy big favour - accidentally, of course. They have just guided the UK towards a soft Brexit.

I see the Irish Times is claiming it was actually the Republic's doing ... "Ireland has just saved the UK from the madness of a hard Brexit" is the headline.

[Alan Medic]

This is the article you are referring to Loz. It's worth a read. The author suggests it could bring Brexit to an end.

https://www.irishtimes.com/opinion/fintan-o-toole-ireland-has-just-saved-the-uk-from-the-madness-of-a-hard-brexit-1.3320096

[Loz]

We can only hope, AM, we can only hope.

[uncleglen]

Blah Blah Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Yes, Bojo seems untouchable and I think none of us

> really understand why.

I can understand why none of YOU can understand why.

AND talk of millionaire Tory Backbenchers- how come Tony Bliar walked away with a ?25 million property portfolio- some kind of socialism that was!

[JoeLeg]

Keep moving those goalposts UG, it's so much fun to watch. You do love speaking in riddles - why don't you try writing more than a bigoted sounbite for once, give us the full broadside of your wisdom? Or is it easier to despise what you don't like?

Let the hate flow through you, embrace your destiny young padawan!

[keano77]

vito Wrote:

>

> IS that the Brexit is brexit UK has been voted

> for? ..or perhaps EU sees May s government

> collapse as a disaster and so decided to move on

> to phase 2 just to keep her alive....??

I think you've hit the nail on the head here on this point vito.

None of us know exactly what has been agreed at this stage because of the tit-bits in the public domain most of it is diplomatic double-speak.

However I think the EU crapped itself when it feared the '?39 Billion' (multiply this by factor of 3 - we'll never know the true figure) might be snatched back if May fell.

The next stage is the EU Parliament has to ratify sufficient progress has been made.

Is Guy Verhofstadt being musselled ?

[keano77]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Maybe this from the Guardian explains it

>

> "The first, and biggest, concession is buried in

> paragraph 49 of the 15-page report published early

> on Friday morning. Its implications will be

> anything but quiet in the weeks to come, for it

> undermines the prime minister?s previous

> insistence that Britain will be leaving the single

> market.

>

> It states clearly: ?In the absence of agreed

> solutions, the United Kingdom will maintain full

> alignment with those rules of the internal market

> and the customs union.? In other words, the UK may

> not be a member of the single market, or have any

> direct ability to shape its rules in future, but

> it could yet have to play by them in perpetuity."

>

> https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/dec/08/n

> ot-much-remain-theresa-may-red-lines-brexit-deal

I'm not a great fan of The Guardian but who wrote that crap?

In other words, the UK may

> not be a member of the single market,

We don't want to be

or have any direct ability to shape its rules in future?

How does half-wit writer draw this conclusion?

, but

> it could yet have to play by them in perpetuity.

The EU probably won't exist in 25 years let alone perpetuity. I'm amazed Schultz is demanding a US of Europe by 2025 as a condition of joining Merkel in coalition.

I await with interest the response of the V4 (Visegrad group). However, hopefully it won't be our problem