Brexit View

[red devil]

I don't think it's as meaningful as it first sounded, for instance it doesn't take into account a No Deal scenario.

It's more about May limping on and avoiding losing a vote in the HoC, which would probably lead to bringing her down...

Open Britain, which is campaigning for a soft Brexit, has put out this statement about David Davis?s announcement. It is from the Labour MP Chris Leslie. He says:

What could have been a very welcome concession by the government, instead looks like a sham that pretends to respect the sovereignty of parliament but falls well short of what is required.

It?s a transparent and fairly desperate attempt at the eleventh hour to save face and avoid losing votes in the House.

Ministers need to do much better. It is crucial that this meaningful vote takes place well before we leave; that defeat for the government?s legislation will not imply leaving the EU with no deal; and that parliament has the same role in the event of a disastrous ?no deal? outcome.

[JohnL]

You're probably right as Dominic Grieve has refused to withdraw the original amendment.

This government will try anything to limp along.

"Davis says, if MPs reject any aspect of the Brexit deal bill, that will be taken by the government as an instruction to go back to Brussels and try again. But whether they take any notice is a matter for them, he says."

What an arse - we won't fall for that.

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Theresa May gets to live another few weeks as PM -

> It's premier league manager stuff :)

>

>

> I assume this deal will be either (1) Take the

> deal or (2) Exit with no deal

>

> We now want to make sure it becomes more like (1)

> Take the deal (2) go back and re-negotiate (3)

> Remain (4) Exit with no deal

If there is enough support, a bill can always be amended...

[keano77]

JohnL Wrote:

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> You're probably right as Dominic Grieve has

> refused to withdraw the original amendment.

>

> This government will try anything to limp along.

>

> "Davis says, if MPs reject any aspect of the

> Brexit deal bill, that will be taken by the

> government as an instruction to go back to

> Brussels and try again. But whether they take any

> notice is a matter for them, he says."

>

> What an arse - we won't fall for that.

Actually he's got a point here although I'm a bit confused as to the timing.

If 27 EU Parliaments (and the relevant regional Parliaments) vote unanimously to approve the deal and it then comes before the UK Parliament who decide it's not good enough what obligation is there for the EU to renegotiate?

You could find Parliament causes a no-deal result if it's not careful

[Earl Aelfheah]

I understand that David Davis has already said that the choice will be to vote for the deal they present to Parliament or we leave without a deal.

[Earl Aelfheah]

We?re nit going to negotiate a deal in time. We?ll go into the ?transition period? (ie business as usual) and brextremists will lose their sh1t. May will get ditched and we?ll end up in paralysis. I suspect things will remain chaotic for a number of years.

[red devil]

As things stand this MPs vote is still meaningless, they've been given the same choice, accept whatever the deal is or it's a no deal, the only difference being it would now be recorded as an act of Gov. So it's now a question of how much backbone the Tory rebels have got when they debate this week. Then there's still the Irish Border question, hope as they might it's not going to go away...

[Alan Medic]

Tweet from the Russian Foreign Ministry to May.....

[JohnL]

She's OK

http://www.independent.co.uk/news/pictures/massandra-winery-one-of-the-largest-collections-of-fine-and-rare-wines-in-the-world-9235685.html

Now if it was a Polonium mine.

[Earl Aelfheah]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> rahrahrah Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > My cat (to quote 'Bad Attitude' Baracus), "aint

> > getting in no plane" anyway. So not a big issue

> > for me.

>

> BA Baracus always ends up on the plane anyway.

It's true - For an aviophobic he certainly clocks up the air miles. Also quite ironic that he's called 'BA'

[Bob Buzzard]

Apparently Sadiq Khan is going to apply forv'DOC' status for London, so then we'll still sort of be in thecEUnafter Brexit as we will have protected status on the same lines as Parmesan or Roquefort has.

[EDOldie]

Crickey, London's not that smelly is it?

[JohnL]

It does sound like we'll have two classes of people - those defined as 'professional service workers' will have access to the EU etc, and the rest. Obviously those in one class will be more in demand.

"David Davis said he was committed to getting a swift deal on a transition period by January and mooted special travel rules to enable professional services workers to move between the UK and EU."

http://www.telegraph.co.uk/business/2017/11/15/jp-morgan-begins-telling-uk-staff-relocated-eu/

[Loz]

Bob Buzzard Wrote:

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> Apparently Sadiq Khan is going to apply forv'DOC' status for London, so then we'll still sort of be

> in thecEUnafter Brexit as we will have protected status on the same lines as Parmesan or Roquefort

> has.

This makes no sense - was it supposed to be a joke?

DOC is not an EU term as such (the EU uses PDO and PGI) and is only available for certain goods from a region, not the region itself.

[JohnL]

Ooh here we go ..

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42014209

[keano77]

I wonder if this is because he's had a smack on the hand from the EU

ECB warns banks against Brexit 'empty shells'

European regulators have warned banks working on post-Brexit plans that they will "need to have substance locally" to serve European clients.

The European Central Bank said some of the proposals it has reviewed are inadequate and risk creating "empty shells".

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42002200

Goes to show, you can't kid a kidder

[SpringTime]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Ooh here we go ..

>

> http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/business-42014209

Pardon me - if one wishes. I would never trust this man, ever. I would never take his advice. On anything.

[robbin]

Seriously John L? It is obvious from this thread that you have a 'remain' agenda (more than, or as much as pretty much anyone else on this forum) but you can't really be holding him and his organisation out as saying anything other than something self-serving (for their own ends). Can you?

I would be happy placing a bet that in any other context you would say 'no, don't be daft'!

Although I shouldn't need to say this - in case of (and before) and reactionary response that I am some sort of rabid Brexiteer, I will say again that I did not vote to leave - it is just that I am extremely wary of nonsense, or propaganda.

[JoeLeg]

Of course he's self-serving - it's bloody Goldman Sachs! That's pretty much all they're about.

So that said, the question becomes; is this just one person mouthing off because they've been slapped down by the ECB (folkvlike him are notoriously sensitive to criticism), or the start of something wider as business starts to get fed up with what it perceives as lack of progress and clarity?

Ultimately (cynic that I am) I believe whatever deal is made will be driven by the needs and wants of corporations more than anything else, and I can't help wondering if they've decided to flex their muscles. Personally I don't think someone from Goldman Sachs does themselves any favours in this way, no one trusts a word they say and rightly so. If we see other businesses following suit and being vocal then it'll be more of a thing, until then this just looks like a petulant banker spitting his dummy.

[keano77]

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Your business is important to us. If urgent, please contact the London or New York offices.

[Alan Medic]

http://www.cityam.com/275935/david-davis-tells-germany-we-not-accept-post-brexit-trade

This is rich coming from David Davis. Isn't putting politics above prosperity what the Tories have been doing all along?

[JohnL]

robbin Wrote:

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> Seriously John L? It is obvious from this thread

> that you have a 'remain' agenda (more than, or as

> much as pretty much anyone else on this forum) but

> you can't really be holding him and his

> organisation out as saying anything other than

> something self-serving (for their own ends). Can

> you?

>

> I would be happy placing a bet that in any other

> context you would say 'no, don't be daft'!

>

> Although I shouldn't need to say this - in case

> of (and before) and reactionary response that I am

> some sort of rabid Brexiteer, I will say again

> that I did not vote to leave - it is just that I

> am extremely wary of nonsense, or propaganda.

Not a huge fan of his - although I walk past the new Goldman Sachs HQ every morning - seems to have a floor occupied too even though it's not finished.

But he's going on about 'other directors' - wonder if it's the start of an agenda. Just wait til they get Theresa May alone in Bilderberg :)

[JohnL]

robbin Wrote:

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> Seriously John L? It is obvious from this thread

> that you have a 'remain' agenda (more than, or as

> much as pretty much anyone else on this forum)

I do but doubt I'm the most hardline remainer (anyone want a ladder)

it's mainly self interest/economic though - I also see myself as Welsh and Londoner over British or European I suppose.

[Jenny1]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> http://www.cityam.com/275935/david-davis-tells-ger

> many-we-not-accept-post-brexit-trade

>

> This is rich coming from David Davis. Isn't

> putting politics above prosperity what the Tories

> have been doing all along?

When I take a step back from simply being very angry that he's contributing to ruining the country, DD intrigues me. Is he, I wonder, simply very dim (the whole 'thick as mince' theory)? Or has he so surrounded himself with 'yes men', that he really has no idea of how his pronouncements sound to the world at large? I guess taking the latter course is a sign of great foolishness in itself.

[Jenny1]

JohnL Wrote:

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I also

> see myself as Welsh and Londoner over British or

> European I suppose.

I think you're allowed to be all those things.