Brexit View

[JohnL]

Apparently the Great Repeal Bill has been postponed after it got 300 amendments put down on it.

[JohnL]

LOL Brexit is why my bathroom floor rotted too.

"The uncertainty surrounding Brexit is thought to be one of the reasons why the Six Nations were unable to seal their ?100m deal, with seeing a downturn in the sponsorship market."

http://www.walesonline.co.uk/sport/rugby/rugby-news/six-nations-embarrassment-bid-bumper-13750071

[Alan Medic]

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2017/oct/13/no-brexit-deal-treasury-philip-hammond

So Phil refers to 'the enemy'. Even though he apologised for using the wrong expression later, wasn't it a strange choice of word in the first place? Now that he has said it, it won't go back into the box. I wonder what was his motive? I find it difficult to believe he said it by accident.

[Blah Blah]

300 ammendments! Crikey - that might taken longer than the EU negotiatons themselves to get though :D

[Loz]

I think it was less the number of amendments, and more the worry that a good dozen of them might actually get passed.

[red devil]

From the Guardian...

The 10 Democratic Unionist party MPs, upon whose votes May relies for a Commons majority, have made it clear to government whips that they would not accept a ?no deal? outcome because it would mean a return to a hard border between Northern Ireland and the Republic. If May were to try to push such an approach, the deal with the DUP that keeps her in power could fall.

Yesterday, in a sign of growing desperation, it emerged that the Brexit secretary, David Davis, will travel to Brussels on Monday for unscheduled talks after the EU ruled that insufficient progress had been made for the two sides to begin future trade talks with Britain. A key plank of May?s Brexit policy has been her insistence that ?no deal is better than a bad deal?. She has made it clear that at the end of negotiations MPs will have only two options: to accept whatever deal is on offer or to agree there will be no deal.

If that's right then despite May's bluster and bravado, 'no deal' is a non-starter, and the EU know it, hence their stance. May's Florence speech said very little about NI and the Irish border. Surprising considering it's one of the 3 'red lines' that the EU wants significant progress on before trade talks can start. Now we know why...

[keano77]

One of the reasons a 'no deal' is unlikely in my view is that it would be so disastrous to the Republic of Ireland's economy given their trade with Britain that they might have to consider pulling out of the EU themselves. To compensate the RoI for the damage to its trade with Britain the EU would need to divert massive resources to the country and current proposals for banking and fiscal union and ending Ireland's generous Corporation Tax rates would be hampered.

We'll get a deal but whether it's a good deal or not remains to be seen.

[Blah Blah]

I think it is increasingly clear that no deal is not an option. It now becomes a case of what kind of deal she can get through the house and how much the EU stand their ground and force her into what essentially will be a Norway type deal. It's no good her using blackmail with Parliament either. I think the sooner she stops the pretence the better. Then she can get on with making the case for the kind of deal we are most likely to end up with. Bojo and Mogg might jump up and down about it, but if either were PM they would not get what they want either. The only question is who the kamikazi element of leave are going to blame for it.

[uncleglen]

What amazes me is the fact that there were no proper contingency plans laid down by the EU in the event that a country that is a net donor to the EU votes to leave. As the days go by the arrogance and ignorance of the EU shines through more and more and just goes to show that a Leave vote is in the best interests of the UK- even though the people of the UK benefiting from being in the 'club' don't like it.

[JoeLeg]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What amazes me is the fact that there were no

> proper contingency plans laid down by the EU in

> the event that a country that is a net donor to

> the EU votes to leave.

And there were no contingency plans from the UK for leaving AT ALL. Are you really so stupid as to not see that the EU is under NO obligation at all to make this easy for us? We didn't plan anything easier. Nothing at all!

As the days go by the

> arrogance and ignorance of the EU

Attitudes that are, coincidently, shared by many Leave voters, particularly you.

shines through

> more and more and just goes to show that a Leave

> vote is in the best interests of the UK- even

> though the people of the UK benefiting from being

> in the 'club' don't like it.

A survey just done by the Institute Of Hospitality showed that 93% of restaurants are having trouble recruiting, and the attitude of young UK candidates gives them no optimism for the future. I've been told privately that the NHS is facing similar issues.

How should we deal with this? What's your plan? I voted Remain, I lost, you won. So it's up to you to fix this. Seriously, how do we deal with the skills shortage? And before you respond that we should all pay more, please remember that the NHS is paid by our taxes, and staffing hospitality are paid by how much the customer is willing to part with. Are you willing for taxes and prices to rise? Personally I'm ok with it, are you? You all seem to say that low wages are the only reason UK workers don't want low skilled jobs.

Talk about having your head in the sand...

[Loz]

Ahh, uncleglen, you write as if the EU are going to come out the most damaged out of this debacle.

> What amazes me is the fact that there were no proper contingency plans laid down by the EU in the event

> that a country that is a net donor to the EU votes to leave.

The EU seem to be in complete control of this process. No doubt it will throw a few EU spending plans awry, but that is nothing compared to the disaster that the UK faces in event of a no-deal. A better question is why the hell didn't the UK have a serious plan before triggering A50?

> As the days go by the arrogance and ignorance of the EU shines through more and more and just goes to

> show that a Leave vote is in the best interests of the UK- even though the people of the UK benefiting

> from being in the 'club' don't like it.

So you agree that the UK benefits from being in the EU. Well, it's a start, I suppose.

[Blah Blah]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> A survey just done by the Institute Of Hospitality showed that 93% of restaurants are having trouble recruiting, and the attitude of young UK candidates gives them no optimism for the future. I've been told privately that the NHS is facing similar issues. How should we deal with this? What's your plan? I voted Remain, I lost, you won. So it's up to you to fix this. Seriously, how do we deal with the skills shortage? And before you respond that we should all pay more, please remember that the NHS is paid by our taxes, and staffing hospitality are paid by how much the customer is willing to part with. Are you willing for taxes and prices to rise? Personally I'm ok with it, are you? You all seem to say that low wages are the only reason UK workers don't want low skilled jobs.

>

> Talk about having your head in the sand...

It is even worse in agriculture and food production with some sectors scaling down by a third because they can't fill the positions now that EU workers are not coming to do those grimy, back breaking, low paid jobs. And this at a time when the head of Sainsburrys just warned that food prices will increase by at least 15% if we have no access to the single market. We already import a quarter of our food from the EU and it is worth remembering that those European farmers depend on our trade to in turn employ their cheap migrant workers. Leaving with no agreement on trade is going to be bad. Closing our borders to workers is already hurting.

[Blah Blah]

There were interesing interviews on the Andrew Marr show this morning. Nobody thinks no deal will be acceptable and increasing signs it won't be accepted by parliament either. That presents a real chance of the government being brought down if May can not get the hard brexit vipers off her back. It is quite possibly the worst civil war the Tories have ever faced. How can a party in that kind of chaos, possibly negotiate with the EU on this? Surely a cross party consensus based approach to negotiations is the right way forward now. Chris Grayling tried to insist that there were plans in place for a hard border because Dover has an unused airfield nearby that can be used as a lorry overspill port. Yeah, good luck with that Chris. That is the level of nonsense now coming out of the party.

[Blah Blah]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> What amazes me is the fact that there were no

> proper contingency plans laid down by the EU in

> the event that a country that is a net donor to

> the EU votes to leave. As the days go by the

> arrogance and ignorance of the EU shines through

> more and more and just goes to show that a Leave

> vote is in the best interests of the UK- even

> though the people of the UK benefiting from being

> in the 'club' don't like it.

And just where have they shown arrogance on that? That they request payment for the spending commitments that we already agreed to contribute to? A fee that our government is refusing to negotiate on (and if that is not an arrogant position I don't know what is). Why else do you think David Daivies is making unscheduled trips this week to continue negotiations? Because failure to get onto trade before Christmas is a extremely serious scenario for the UK (not the EU). You illlustrate perfectly the arrogance of leave supporters who think we are something special, that the EU should change it's rules just for us. And if you get your hard brexit, when the sh+t hits the fan and you see for yourself that the establishment does not change, that ordinary people get screwed even harder, who will you blame then?

[red devil]

Interesting how Brexiteers paint themselves as being the patriotic ones, and any dissenting voices are seen as traitors, enemies of the people etc. Yet Brextremists are quite happy to let the country go to the dogs economically so long as they get what they want, as that poll of a couple of months ago bore witness to. Whereas it's Remainers, who although they would prefer Brexit was stopped, they accept that unless there's a 2nd Referendum or equivalent, Brexit has to happen, yet in the meantime they're the only ones trying to prevent a Hard Brexit and the damage it would cause the country. So it's quite clear who the real patriots are...

[JohnL]

490 Billion pounds has just disappeared from the UK GDP (overseas holdings or such) 25% of GDP.

just an accounting error.

http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/866946/brexit-latest-updates-ons-data-wipes-490-billion-uk-wealth

[JohnL]

And the Tories now once again taking an almighty hammering in the Daily Mail comments section (couldn't resist looking) as they've suggested they might tax older people to help younger people.

Deja Vue

[red devil]

I've not looked at the Daily Hate since A50 was triggered...:)

[Loz]

JohnL Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> And the Tories now once again taking an almighty hammering in the Daily Mail comments section

> (couldn't resist looking) as they've suggested they might tax older people to help younger

> people.

>

> Deja Vue

Looks like they learnt nothing from the last election. Rule 1 - don't piss off you core vote.

[Blah Blah]

They are truly screwed on this though Loz. They have to get some of those younger voters. It can't be underestimated how much shock the Tories are in now that young people have started voting. But that bribe of a triple lock, is coming back to haunt them now.

And there there is the missing half a trillion.

'The Office for National Statistics (ONS) told The Telegraph its Blue Book revisions came after it was discovered Britons own fewer overseas shares than previously thought, and foreigners own more British assets.'

That for me typifies what is wrong with the UK economy. We have sold off too much and we have sold it to foreign investors. And that means much of the wealth creation goes offshore instead of staying in the economy. McDonell might scare the life out of a lot of people, but he is right on a few things around asset ownership and economic benefit.

[JohnL]

OECD has more or less told Theresa May to back away from Brexit but a Government Spokesman has said there will be no going back.

Are the rest of the world warning her? Maybe have a word in the toilets at the next Bilderberg.

https://www.standard.co.uk/news/uk/second-referendum-to-reverse-brexit-would-bring-significant-boost-to-uk-economy-a3660746.html

[JoeLeg]

Unfortunately anything printed in the Standard (not matter how accurate) will be rejected out of hand by the Leave brigade, and to be fair Osbourne is using it as hisxpersonal crusade against all those whom he sees as having wronged him.

[JohnL]

I know - I don't like Osborne at all - but his revenge mission gets me going like Kill Bill (I've never seen anyone be so vindictive since Uma Thurman - and she had good reason)

[malumbu]

I'm struggling to resolve relationships with friends and family who voted to leave. I'm in a bubble of remainers but still shocked by entrenched views outside of this. I try to avoid the subject in these situations - a recent discussion was regurgitation of the argument about taking control yet the underlying issue was immigration (and essentially this person is a racist never liking Asian and Caribbean communities 'taking over' their city in the 60s and now stretching to Eastern Europeans. I've heard similar from those in the outer London Boroughs. I feel that the country is more divided than it has been for a long time. I have to stop myself saying 'you want to take control' 'this is a popular uprising' 'Yet who are you siding with? The Daily Mail establishment and William chuffing Rees Mogg'

The easiest thing is to drop old friends. Which I have. https://www.soundhound.com/?t=100504526420030743 More difficult with family....

[red devil]

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