Brexit View

[intexasatthe moment]

"I read somewhere that Cummings is departing his role on October 31st. I wonder will it be a case of his job there being done, or not being able to do it."

It's said that Cummings is due surgery in November .

https://inews.co.uk/opinion/comment/boris-johnson-no-deal-brexit-silly-season-news-cancelled-497558

[uncleglen]

what an undemocratic bloody farce

still

https://www.prospectmagazine.co.uk/politics/united-leavers-could-easily-thwart-divided-remainers-in-the-upcoming-general-election-polling-brexit

[stepdown]

It seems strange that the referendum is often lauded as the largest democratic event by those that now shirk away from direct representation, preferring instead to conflate the Brexit issue with the public's opinion on Jeremy Corbyn. The linked article shows that the FPTP system would disenfranchise large swathes, if not the majority, of the electorate.

The doublethink surrounding what counts as democracy extends to the sovereignty of parliament, the motivation to prorogue, the impact of prorogation, the importance of civil discourse... it's bewildering how people can display such blatant cognitive dissonance.

[malumbu]

What a loathsome man. That's BJ not Trump or Jezzer. To be correct I should say what a loathsome person, although he is displaying many characteristics or a boorish male from the upper echelons. Struth, Dave and Theresa ended up as disasters but they had some civility and class.

As for Jezzer, far more transparent and an easy target for many of us and the right wing press. Just amazes me that middle England can not see BJ for the duplicitous, self-serving, arrogant human being he is. Rest of his family seem quite nice!

[Alan Medic]

BJ is behaving in a manner which will attract Brexit Party voters. He's even worse than Fartage. I'm sure it's a deliberate ploy, even if it is disgusting to watch it unfold.

Alternatively, diddums could just be worried about all the dosh his buddies might lose if he doesn't leave the EU by the end of October.

[uncleglen]

Paula Sheriff opened the door- deliberately I expect- engineered to get a response that remainiacs can latch on to....and they did....

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Paula Sheriff opened the door- deliberately I

> expect- engineered to get a response that

> remainiacs can latch on to....and they did....

Surely Johnson opened the door by being hugely disrespectful

And she just called him out

In response to which he was hugely disrespectful

[nxjen]

Alan Medic Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> BJ is behaving in a manner which will attract

> Brexit Party voters. He's even worse than Fartage.

> I'm sure it's a deliberate ploy, even if it is

> disgusting to watch it unfold.

>

Which is why the Tory membership elected him as their leader, to see off Farage and the Brexit Party at a general election.

[stepdown]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Paula Sheriff opened the door- deliberately I

> expect- engineered to get a response that

> remainiacs can latch on to....and they did....

I was going to accuse you of arguing against a straw man, attacking a position or motive you have imagined rather than one anybody has actually taken. On reflection though it's unfair to even hold your post to that low standard, you're just regurgitating talking points.

The debate was around civility in political discourse, but I suppose that would be of little interest to somebody whose 3 most recent posts in this thread refer to "remainiacs", "undemocratic bloody farce" and "treachery".

[Sephiroth]

Has there been, in the whole forums history a worse poster than [redacted. Not really. You know who I mean]

[Captain Marvel]

Yes

[malumbu]

Ironic that Theresa May campaigned to change the image of being the 'nasty' party, which is exactly what BJ is doing now, whether by clever design or blunderbuss (or a mixture of both). Quite liked that Rory Steward.

[peckman]

The uk is tearing itself apart . A GE wont solve anything (and I suspect boris will narrowly get in) . Labour seem gutless and rudderless. Personally I like the libs but they will never hold power. The only way out of this mess is a second ref surely . Cummings seems a evil man

[Jules-and-Boo]

Brexit is pulling all focus from other matters, which is a disaster

We're in a total stalemate - and they are behaving like chimps.

Surprised they have actually evolved this far, as something has clearly gone wrong with this iteration of their genes.

[JohnL]

Boris's sister has stated she doesn't recognise the man in power.

(of course if the man in power is Dominic Cummings that would make sense)

[Sephiroth]

"Brexit is pulling all focus from other matters, which is a disaster

We're in a total stalemate - and they are behaving like chimps."

It was always going to. But this is still just the beginning. If we leave, even with a deal, then the real problems and distraction begins

I also think too many people are pointing fingers at politicians and not enough at themselves - this would all be over if people were honest with themselves and conceded it would be best to stay. But they continue to put pressure on politicians to deliver - so we are where we are

[uncleglen]

stepdown Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Paula Sheriff opened the door- deliberately I

> > expect- engineered to get a response that

> > remainiacs can latch on to....and they did....

>

> I was going to accuse you of arguing against a

> straw man, attacking a position or motive you have

> imagined rather than one anybody has actually

> taken. On reflection though it's unfair to even

> hold your post to that low standard, you're just

> regurgitating talking points.

>

> The debate was around civility in political

> discourse, but I suppose that would be of little

> interest to somebody whose 3 most recent posts in

> this thread refer to "remainiacs", "undemocratic

> bloody farce" and "treachery".

Since day 1 of the referendum (which was won by the Leave camp btw) the Leave voters have been subjected to vile insults from the 'others'- racist, xenophobic, thickies etc etc BUT as soon as some strong - and NOT abusive language is used by a Brexiteer you hypocrites are once again jumping up and down....'there's none so blind as those that will not see'

[diable rouge]

Not all Leave voters have been subjected to being called racist, xenophobes, thickies etc, just the ones that actually are, like you UG...

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> stepdown Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > uncleglen Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Paula Sheriff opened the door- deliberately I

> > > expect- engineered to get a response that

> > > remainiacs can latch on to....and they

> did....

> >

> > I was going to accuse you of arguing against a

> > straw man, attacking a position or motive you

> have

> > imagined rather than one anybody has actually

> > taken. On reflection though it's unfair to even

> > hold your post to that low standard, you're

> just

> > regurgitating talking points.

> >

> > The debate was around civility in political

> > discourse, but I suppose that would be of

> little

> > interest to somebody whose 3 most recent posts

> in

> > this thread refer to "remainiacs",

> "undemocratic

> > bloody farce" and "treachery".

>

> Since day 1 of the referendum (which was won by

> the Leave camp btw) the Leave voters have been

> subjected to vile insults from the 'others'-

> racist, xenophobic, thickies etc etc BUT as soon

> as some strong - and NOT abusive language is used

> by a Brexiteer you hypocrites are once again

> jumping up and down....'there's none so blind as

> those that will not see'

what a load of BS

[stepdown]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Since day 1 of the referendum (which was won by

> the Leave camp btw) the Leave voters have been

> subjected to vile insults from the 'others'-

> racist, xenophobic, thickies etc etc

Unfortunately you seem to have taken the straw man argument as a suggestion rather than a criticism. You call me a hypocrite, but I haven't used any of the insults you referred to. At least you have attempted to do some critical thinking on your own this time though.

The three derisive comments I referred to were only your most recent "contributions" to this thread, and your whataboutery shows a complete inability to take responsibility for your own words, although I accept that a lot of them haven't been spouted as a result of any original thought on your part.

[Burbage]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Since day 1 of the referendum (which was won by

> the Leave camp btw) the Leave voters have been

> subjected to vile insults from the 'others'-

That must have been very distressing. But I don't quite see how that in itself has, for the space of over three years, prevented any of those famous 17.4 million people from producing a sketch of a workable, legal plan.

Because, without a plan, you're just calling for the disruption of millions of families, and thousands of businesses, that have grown intertwined with our neighbours for 45 years and, as a result, enjoyed an unprecedented period of prosperity, in return for something that doesn't exist and can never deliver the false promises of its promoters.

I deplore intemperate language, almost as much as this forum's filters do. But, with the deepest respect, that's surely immaterial compared to the snide rants of people like yourself, who diminish the justified anger of people whose livelihoods, relationships and futures are being threatened by daring to equate it with the unfounded bellowings of narcissistic populists.

I'm sure it's not your fault. You've probably never considered, for example, the south-coast widow of a British Army officer who, being a French citizen, is now sworn at in shops and frightened of being deported. You've possibly never considered the grandparents who, after twenty years in Spain, are unable to afford to move back to the UK, but can't afford healthcare where they are, and whose relatives won't be able to look after them and work at the same time. You've probably not thought about the florist, whose plants come from Holland. Or the tomato-grower, who relies on Netherland-bred bees. Or the mushroom farmer, whose spores come from Ireland. Or even the Cornish fishermen, whose Cornish Pilchards are landed from Cornish waters by Cornish boats and tinned in Brittany, where huge canneries can keep the costs down in the same way the vast Scottish bottling plants do for London's gin distillers. Or the musician, the artist and the scientist who, because nobody knows what might happen, now have question marks beside the jobs, grants, conferences, tours or festivals that their jobs rely on.

And, sure, some of the Leave arguments hold water. But it was the UK government that turned UK fishing quotas into internationally-traded commodities. The UK government forced councils to prioritise citizens from new accession states. And the UK government that failed to impose lawful restrictions on economically-inactive migrants. The very same government that, through austerity, has shifted the burden of the banks onto all private citizens and underfunded the NHS. These things have affected all households - both Leave and Remain - yet where was the outrage when they happened?

So, again with the utmost respect, don't 'other' us. We are, in many ways the same. But, though none of us will gain anything from Brexit, some of us have very much more to lose, and we are not going to sit quietly while a few individuals, in contempt of both parliament and the judiciary, wreak intolerable harm, just because they've managed to convince a slight majority with their transparent, vicious rhetoric that undermining our democratic institutions, and even the monarch herself, is somehow patriotic.

[nxjen]

Burbage - *like*

[uncleglen]

Again Burbage- you have NO idea what has gone on in the rest of the country since Blair invited the poorest of the EU to come and live in the poorest areas of the UK....typical ED ivory tower verbosity- you're lucky you've got the time!

[Sephiroth]

Oh me me! I live outside the M25 in a small town - London isn't an ivory tower

Also - poor people in other EU and UK countries have all faced similar situations but DON'T see leaving the EU as a solution - because it isn't

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Again Burbage- you have NO idea what has gone on

> in the rest of the country since Blair invited the

> poorest of the EU to come and live in the poorest

> areas of the UK....typical ED ivory tower

> verbosity- you're lucky you've got the time!

at least you're honest enough to admit that most leavers voted based on immigration