Brexit View

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> malumbu Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > We will be able to go to the butchers counter

> and

> > ask for chlorine washed chicken though... But

> > perhaps not red smarties.

>

>

> Make a change from Salmonella and campylobacter

> and will save the NHS a fortune treating

I don't think you know what you're talking about here.

[JoeLeg]

keano77 Wrote:

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> You're not seriously citing YouTube as an

> authoritative source?

>

> This sewing circle is getting worse

Why not? Plenty of people of all hues and stripes seem to have taken unverifiable videos produced in someone's back room as gospel and based their political opinions on them. Some of its much worse than YouTube but somehow because it's not 'MSM' it's automatically truth.

[keano77]

JoeLeg Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> keano77 Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > malumbu Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > We will be able to go to the butchers counter

> > and

> > > ask for chlorine washed chicken though...

> But

> > > perhaps not red smarties.

> >

> >

> > Make a change from Salmonella and campylobacter

> > and will save the NHS a fortune treating

>

> I don't think you know what you're talking about

> here.

The EU is not anti chlorinated chicken in itself (it recognises it's safe). It worries it is a quick fix for failings elsewhere in the chain and this is why it's banned.

Whether it tastes different or not I don't know (I've probably eaten it in the US). I can't imagine it's like swallowing water in a swimming pool.

[keano77]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> If there's a video of Stephen Hawking on YouTube

> lecturing on black holes, then it's an

> authoritative source. You're clearly enjoying

> yourself but no need to troll absolutely every

> comment.

The authoritative source would be Stephen Hawking

[keano77]

rendelharris Wrote:

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> If there's a video of Stephen Hawking on YouTube

> lecturing on black holes, then it's an

> authoritative source. You're clearly enjoying

> yourself but no need to troll absolutely every

> comment.

Actually Rendel do you regard this as trolling? I thought I was just in a minority here as a brexiteer

[rendelharris]

I suspect you're getting more fun out of getting a rise out of people by calling them whingers, bleeding hearts, a sewing circle etc than you are from the actual debate, so yes I'd call it trolling - a harmless enough version of it.

[red devil]

keano77 Wrote:

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> The authoritative source would be Stephen Hawking

Exactly. And YouTube is simply a conduit for that authoritative source, so pointless dismissing it as you did.

Speaking of sources, are you going to address Alan Medic's earlier request for your source, authoritative or other wise, about the EU negotiations?...

[keano77]

Oh yes, thanks for reminding me red devil. I started looking for the source earlier but as you can see I've got a bit carried away on this thread today.

I thought it was written by a Sky News correspondent but can't seem to go back to around 17th/18th July on that site. Alternatively I might have read it on the Telegraph before it went behind its Premium firewall.

I'll keep searching and get back to Alan.

[Loz]

The problem is that Brexit is a massive change and yet we have a government that seems to have no credible plan as to how we are going to get there. And, to make it worse, we have an opposition who has no idea either.

It's like overpowering a pilot at 33000ft in the air, hurling him out the cargo door and only then asking, 'anyone know how to fly a plane?' and seeing a lot of confused faces. And then when people start questioning why you threw the pilot out, you saying "well, if you are going to be all negative about this, this plane will probably crash..."

[keano77]

Alan Medic Wrote:

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> keano77 Wrote:

>

> >

> > Our dry civil servants asked the EU team the

> > question - can Hansel just get off the Eurostar

> > and demand the right to enter Britain because

> his

> > parents worked here once as EU Citizens?

> >

> > No matter how much thumbing through those

> pristine

> > files you saw in the photograph the EU team

> > couldn't answer that question and will have to

> > liaise internally to formulate a response.

>

> Are you serious? Would you like to say what your

> source is for this?

>

> I suppose it hasn't occurred to you the only

> people who could answer that question are the UK

> authorities, as they will be making the rules up.

Sorry Alan, I've searched high and low for the original source of our negotiation team's question (without my embellishments) but I can't find it. I think it's behind a paywall. So I can't substantiate that point

[Alan Medic]

keano77 Wrote:

>

> Sorry Alan, I've searched high and low for the

> original source of our negotiation team's question

> (without my embellishments) but I can't find it. I

> think it's behind a paywall. So I can't

> substantiate that point

No worries. I suspect you were just dreaming it anyway.

[miga]

Loz Wrote:

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> The problem is that Brexit is a massive change and

> yet we have a government that seems to have no

> credible plan as to how we are going to get there.

> And, to make it worse, we have an opposition who

> has no idea either.

Exactly. A step into the unknown, no clear goal (other than "Leave"), no clear plan. Still.

[JohnL]

Loz Wrote:

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> The problem is that Brexit is a massive change and

> yet we have a government that seems to have no

> credible plan as to how we are going to get there.

> And, to make it worse, we have an opposition who

> has no idea either.

>

> It's like overpowering a pilot at 33000ft in the

> air, hurling him out the cargo door and only then

> asking, 'anyone know how to fly a plane?' and

> seeing a lot of confused faces. And then when

> people start questioning why you threw the pilot

> out, you saying "well, if you are going to be all

> negative about this, this plane will probably

> crash..."

Hammond has now said nothing will change until 2020/2021/2022

The footballs just being kicked further and further up the path and we don't know where the path goes.

'This is a transitional period that will take us from membership of the EU to a new future relationship with the EU that has yet to be negotiated.'

http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-4738764/Hammond-admits-YEARS-new-border-controls.html

[red devil]

What if no plan is the Hard Brexiteers' plan?

Up until the snap election it was all about ''the will of the people'', ''no deal deal is better than a bad deal'' etc etc. That was all lost with the election result, and subsequent polls have backed that up, plus the EU is clearly winning the PR battle during early negotiations. Now if you're a HB how do you turn all this around? Surely the easiest would be for the talks to collapse, thus no deal, but making sure you paint the EU as the bad guys. The right wing Brexit press would lap it up, even today's Express has ''EU bullies told: You can't hold Britain to ransom'' on it's front page. I've not read it, but as an educated guess I'd say it was referring to Barnier's alleged warning of talks being postponed unless the UK resolves the divorce bill first.

It's all very well Hammond talking about transitional periods, but the hardest thing will be getting to that stage in the first place...

[JohnL]

Yes - lots of people seem to forget we have to ask the EU for a transition period (negotiate it).

Anyway Liam Fox is in Mexico today and Boris is quoting Men at Work in Australia - they certainly want to appear busy..

[uncleglen]

Apparently Hammond has the backing of business leaders in this- of course he has- especially the ones that advertised in the EU before the UK with a view to keeping their labour costs well down- and they made up that little disclaimer- that EU workers would do the work that UK citizens wouldn't- what a load of tosh- they forgot to add 'at a fraction of the wages' because of course young East Europeans have no kids, no mortgages, and are happy to live in overcrowded conditions.

The bureaucrats of the EU, if it is any sort of professional outfit, should have rules and regulations in place in case a country wished to leave (unless they have the arrogance to think that they are so great that no-one would want to leave). Any 'special' considerations given to EU citizens would have to be extended to everyone in the world- or there will be legal issues with that I shouldn't wonder.

We have been severely exploited by the EU set-up- except of course the people who have made a mint, or saved a mint, one way or another.

I personally would like to know how much money has been sent out of the UK over the years by these workers, and given that they use the NHS, school system, created a housing problem in cities etc -are they actually worth it, on balance?

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> The bureaucrats of the EU, if it is any sort of

> professional outfit, should have rules and

> regulations in place in case a country wished to

> leave.

They do, any country can unilaterally withdraw from the union without negotiation and with no terms agreed (why didn't we do that, since according to you everything about the EU is so evil?). If the leaving country wishes to negotiate terms of trade and other issues, they have two years from activation of Article 50 to do so. The negotiations are intensely complex and will vary according to each leaving member's requirements. I can imagine the whining howls of outrage from the likes of you if the EU had turned round and said OK you're leaving, you have to stick to these rules.

Good to see you're still sticking to your standard whackadoodle mix of bigotry and conspiracy theories though, rather than opening your eyes to what is becoming more and more apparent: we've made a leap in the dark and found there's no safe place to land. Hammond's airy claim that we'll have a transition agreement is the usual nonsense: the EU have made it quite clear they won't even consider a transition agreement until the UK has signed the terms of its exit.

[JoeLeg]

UG said -

"and they made up that little disclaimer- that EU workers would do the work that UK citizens wouldn't- what a load of tosh- they forgot to add 'at a fraction of the wages' because of course young East Europeans have no kids, no mortgages, and are happy to live in overcrowded con"

This I'm afraid is rubbish. Go and ask rose firms - such as the soft fruit industry, and they aren't the only ones - about the trouble they are already having trying to recruit British people for jobs that have recently been done by immigrants.

Minimum wage is minimum wage, same for everyone. There is no 'fraction of the cost'. You want to argue that the wage itself should be higher? I agree with you but my views on this are a matter of record.

Go and ask hospitals (the NHS is staffed by 80% non-UK people, according to the head of a major London hospital I met recently) why they can't get UK people to be cleaners or porters. Then tell me what you plan to do about it.

[Alan Medic]

uncleglen Wrote:

> The bureaucrats of the EU, if it is any sort of

> professional outfit, should have rules and

> regulations in place in case a country wished to

> leave (unless they have the arrogance to think

> that they are so great that no-one would want to

> leave). Any 'special' considerations given to EU

> citizens would have to be extended to everyone in

> the world- or there will be legal issues with that

> I shouldn't wonder.

You probably should wonder. What about the special arrangement between the UK & the ROI? It's been in place since 1949 I think. It meant that I was from the only EU country outside the UK with a vote in the referendum. I can come and go as I please between the two countries. Which 'legal issues' are you referring to which might stop that or even extend it to all EU passport holders.

[miga]

> I personally would like to know how much money has

> been sent out of the UK over the years by these

> workers, and given that they use the NHS, school

> system, created a housing problem in cities etc

> -are they actually worth it, on balance?

You can do yourself a favour and find out. Or just take my word for it: yes they are.

[rendelharris]

^That

[Alan Medic]

Good read from the NY Times. Well not 'good'.

https://www.nytimes.com/2017/07/28/opinion/dunkirk-christopher-nolan-brexit.html

[uncleglen]

It's been patently obvious from day 1 that all you people in your ED bubble have NO Idea what is going on in the poorer areas of the UK .....so I give up- you'll have to just suck it up when it comes.

[rendelharris]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> It's been patently obvious from day 1 that all you

> people in your ED bubble have NO Idea what is

> going on in the poorer areas of the UK .....so I

> give up- you'll have to just suck it up when it

> comes.

Does giving up mean you'll stop posting bigoted ill-informed hateful drivel? That would be nails.

[Loz]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> It's been patently obvious from day 1 that all you

> people in your ED bubble have NO Idea what is

> going on in the poorer areas of the UK .....so I

> give up- you'll have to just suck it up when it

> comes.

Actually, I think the article has that nailed... "The country is sick of low living standards, and polls show that people are fed up with austerity cuts to public spending. Voters wanted and expected Brexit to make them richer."

So, when Brexit fails to make things better - and almost certainly makes it worse for at least a decade - we're all going to have to suck it up when it comes.