Brexit View

[Loutwo]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Lou. You can?t speak for most leave voters but if

> you were representative and most voters thought

> like you themnit goes some way to explaining why

> remainers say you didn?t know what you?re were

> voting for - because that?s literally what you are

> saying

>

> You can?t just cry liberal London elite at

> everything you don?t like. The governments own

> internal papers paint a very very very bad picture

> (of a country that lest we forget, lost it?s shit

> when kfc ran out of chicken)

>

> You continue to wave everything away just so you

> can say in the future ?but no one was talking

> about that then?. You will back up any half arsed

> Hitler/eu garbage but faced with actual reality

> and probability of. I deal, you don?t examine your

> record in this and think ?maybe I, Louisa, don?t

> know what I?m talking about sometimes?

John I have never once claimed to know everything. But on this, my record is exemplary. I know what I?m talking about. I want us to remain, for all the reasons you and others have stated. But I do feel you and other remainers are perpetuating this idea that the world as we know it will come crashing down around us post October 31 without a deal. The evidence just isn?t there to back up your claims. We will end up on WTO terms and probably sink into a small recession until the economy readjusted to new conditions. It wouldn?t be ideal, but equally it wouldn?t be total chaos either.

I appreciate your concerns for Ireland, Scotland and the continuity of the status quo, but much of that comes from your own entrenched belief system and is simply NOT based in reality. Sorry to say.

Louisa.

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> prepared to put people through this for decades?

>

> People will die. Be it because of resumption of

> the troubles. Or food/medicine shortages

>

> And you won?t even be embarrassed? You should be

> prosecuted

Hahaha. You really make me laugh. No, people dieing doesn't make me laugh. Statements like the above really do though.

I don't know how you can even attempt to claim balanced judgement with comments like this one. Best of luck to you though.

[Jenny1]

Loutwo Wrote:

-----------------------------------

We will end up on WTO terms and

> probably sink into a small recession until the

> economy readjusted to new conditions. It wouldn?t

> be ideal, but equally it wouldn?t be total chaos

> either.

>

Please tell me what you think 'WTO terms' are Louisa, and who operates on them?

Thanks. Asking for the UK.

[Sephiroth]

I can make statements like that because I pointed you to available evidence, which does forecast these things, and said if they come true it would be bad

And you basically said yeah but it?s worth it

I?m not misrepresenting you. I said if it was wrong I would be embarrassed. You said if you were wrong about these forecasts you wouldn?t even be embarrassed.

[Jenny1]

TheCat Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Sephiroth Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > prepared to put people through this for

> decades?

> >

> > People will die. Be it because of resumption

> of

> > the troubles. Or food/medicine shortages

> >

> > And you won?t

>

> Hahaha. You really make me laugh. No, people

> dieing doesn't make me laugh. Statements like the

> above really do though.

>

> I don't know how you can even attempt to claim

> balanced judgement with comments like this one.

> Best of luck to you though.

Do you have any friends or relatives on long term medication at all TheCat? If so, what are their views on this?

[Loutwo]

There really are some genuinely well respected posters on here, people who often make good balanced arguments, turning into complete doom mongers over this issue. Not even based in fact, pure conjecture. Very odd indeed.

Louisa.

[Sephiroth]

government reports, a wide array of economic forecasts, views of other countries - not conjecture Lou

It might comfort you to chuckle into your wine and pretend you know better. But as you learned yourself - you know jack on this and you got it wrong before. If I were you I would think maybe you are wrong again

Government reports. Supposedly ?worst case scenario?. But shouldn?t even be possible

https://www.google.co.uk/amp/s/www.thejournal.ie/uk-leaked-no-deal-brexit-plan-operation-yellowhammer-4771216-Aug2019/%3famp=1

[Sephiroth]

Or is the body responsible for delivering foods just ?conjecture? as well?

Are they likely to know more about how food gets to our table? Or do you know more?

https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/goves-claim-fresh-food-supplies-unaffected-by-no-deal-brexit-categorically-untrue_uk_5d6bb55ce4b0cdfe05719d77

[Jenny1]

Loutwo Wrote:

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> There really are some genuinely well respected

> posters on here, people who often make good

> balanced arguments, turning into complete doom

> mongers over this issue. Not even based in fact,

> pure conjecture. Very odd indeed.

>

> Louisa.

Ah. What things 'not based in fact' have been said recently that you object to Louisa?

[keano77]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> prepared to put people through this for decades?

>

> People will die. Be it because of resumption of

> the troubles. Or food/medicine shortages

>

> And you won?t even be embarrassed? You should be

> prosecuted

This remainer hysteria is getting out of hand. You?ll make yourselves poorly with these made up scare stories. I suggest a nice cup of cocoa and an early night. A good night?s sleep works wonders.

[Jenny1]

..PS to Louisa. Have you seen my query above about 'WTO terms'? Thanks.

[Jenny1]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> Or is the body responsible for delivering foods

> just ?conjecture? as well?

>

> Are they likely to know more about how food gets

> to our table? Or do you know more?

>

> https://www.huffingtonpost.co.uk/entry/goves-claim

> -fresh-food-supplies-unaffected-by-no-deal-brexit-

> categorically-untrue_uk_5d6bb55ce4b0cdfe05719d77

I think there must be people who have all their lives longed to say 'The British Retail Association?! Don't talk to me about the British Retail Association! What do they know about British Retail?!'. That's the only explanation I can come up with.

This made me chuckle.

[Loutwo]

Jenny1 Wrote:

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> Loutwo Wrote:

> -----------------------------------

> We will end up on WTO terms and

> > probably sink into a small recession until the

> > economy readjusted to new conditions. It

> wouldn?t

> > be ideal, but equally it wouldn?t be total

> chaos

> > either.

> >

>

> Please tell me what you think 'WTO terms' are

> Louisa, and who operates on them?

> Thanks. Asking for the UK.

Well for a start, if we fall back on our existing membership of the WTO the Irish border issue disappears overnight. We will pursue a independent trade policy and ?go rogue? by keeping the border open to free trade whether the WTO/EU likes it or not. Current forecasts suggest they would have little room to complain or impose further tariffs until at least 2022, by which time new trade agreements would already be finalised with other countries. I think some food will entail 0% tariffs initially, and some goods such as cars will be closer to 10%.

Louisa.

[Sephiroth]

Keano. You can join thecat

Read what I said at 9:46

I had only pointed out what would happen if predictions came true. I said if they didn?t come true I would be embarrassed. But if they do some true then I won?t be making anything up

If those predictions (including governments own) come true. People. Will. Die

And if you response to that is ?I won?t even be embarrassed? then yes you are a sociopath

[Sephiroth]

As for lou?s WTO fantasies, what can you even say? She has the f@@@ing GALL to say we are making stuff up and she comes out with this nonsense. Where does she get such ideas? Where?

[Jenny1]

Louisa. I see a couple of issues there.

Firstly. No country in the world currently trades on WTO terms alone. There's a reason for that.

Secondly, that wouldn't work on the Irish border. See attached. https://www.theguardian.com/politics/2019/jan/17/checks-on-both-sides-of-irish-border-mandatory-under-no-deal-brexit

[Sephiroth]

Telling the eu and wto to do one is quite the statesmanlike gambit for a country on its knees in dire need of a trade deal. And doesn?t lou?s ?Plan? require Ireland to join in with the madness?

[Loutwo]

The WTO has no mechanism for expelling members based on them making an exception for a open border into a existing single market, none whatsoever. And do you really think the EU will force us to have a border on the island of Ireland going against the Good Friday Agreement, therefore threatening peace and stability in Northern Ireland? It just won?t happen. They will tolerate a open border for a number of years whilst we sort trade arrangements out. We all know this. And it?s not sticking two fingers up to anyone, it?s making the best of a not so ideal situation.

Louisa.

[Sephiroth]

Even if the eu was to tolerate an open border it?s the uk that?s having the hissy fit about control of its borders

Eu citizens can freely flow into the uk across this non existent border and what? The media and leavers won?t mind?

Seems like a ridiculous risk and price to pay for zero gain and a lot of loss

[Jenny1]

But Louisa, you were saying that the UK, under WTO terms, would decide to unilaterally drop all tariffs on the Irish Border. No it wouldn't. That would kill our own farming industry. Even if we didn't care about breaking the rules of an organisation (the WTO) in which Brexiters claim they wish to play a leading role in future.

[Loutwo]

Jenny, on Ireland, there is no mechanism to prevent or fine the United Kingdom from not imposing tariffs on goods between us and the single market. None which would take affect before 2022, as I previously explained. It?s a fantasy.

We would not be exclusively trading on WTO rules, we already have existing trade agreements and others in the pipeline about to be signed separately from the EU. And again, we will continue to keep a free and open border with the single market with 0% tariffs.. whether the EU/WTO like it or not. Simple as that really.

Louisa.

[TheCat]

Sephiroth Wrote:

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> As for lou?s WTO fantasies, what can you even say?

> She has the f@@@ing GALL to say we are making

> stuff up and she comes out with this nonsense.

> Where does she get such ideas? Where?

Your rage is really becoming comical/farcical. Please carry on.

I'll just say this. Louisa said that many statements being made were not 'based in fact'.

A forecast or prediction is NOT, repeat NOT, fact.

[Loutwo]

Jenny that?s not the case. We would continue to trade with the rest of the world through existing agreements on goods and services which would include agricultural exports.

Louisa.

[Sephiroth]

A) Louisa and her posts have very little to do with facts

B) no one is say predictions are the same as facts. What I am saying is that the serious predictions about the consequences of a damaging Brexit are not random plucks out of the air but based upon people whose job it is to know. This doesn?t mean they will happen. They could very well be wrong. But as already discussed the consequences of them being right v wrong are very different

[Sephiroth]

It would help if Louisa backed up her fantastical statements with references. Maybe it?s her area of her expertise. Or maybe she is simply paraphrasing Patrick bleedin Minford