Brexit View

[stepdown]

keano77 Wrote:

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> I?ve no idea what will happen.

keano77 Wrote:

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> There is no evidence

keano77 Wrote:

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> I don?t click on links.

The ignorance is hardly surprising given your attitude.

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> ...and if the Queens speech is voted down is

> that automatically an election ?.

No, not under the FTPA, explainer from Institute of Gov't...

The Queen?s Speech can be voted down. This would be of major political significance, as it would clearly call into question the ability of the government to command the confidence of Parliament. Historically, a defeat on the address has been treated as an implicit loss of confidence in a government as it suggests that there is no majority to be found in the Commons for its programme for government.

It is rare for the government to be defeated on the address in the Commons ? as governments usually have a majority in the House. But it has happened ? most recently in 1924, when Stanley Baldwin?s minority government was defeated. Baldwin then resigned as prime minister, and the opposition went on to form a new government.

As no government has been defeated on the address since the passage of the Fixed-term Parliaments Act (FTPA) in 2011, it is unclear what would happen if such a situation were to arise. This is because a defeat on the address would not meet the requirements under the FTPA to trigger an election. But any defeat might encourage the opposition to then table a formal vote of no confidence, under the FTPA, in the government. There would also be intense political pressure on the government.

[diable rouge]

JohnL Wrote:

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> Just wondering if a pledge is made in the Queens

> speech to ask for an extension or alternatively

> NOT to ask for an extension what should remainers

> hope for...

I don't think a Queen's speech pledge mounts to much until it becomes as Act like Benn's Bill, so I'm guessing either could be changed during the next parliamentary session.

Whether the speech passes or not will probably depend on the Tory rebels, likewise any vote of no confidence. A lot has been said about the Lib Dems not supporting Corbyn in an alternative Gov, but it's a moot point as together they don't have the numbers without the Tory rebels, they are the real king makers at the moment.

Personally I'm hoping for an extension up to June to allow for a referendum and/or an election...

[uncleglen]

pk Wrote:

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> uncleglen Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Now Merkel is trying to stir up trouble by

> saying that NI should

> > stay in the EU customs union....sneaky or what?

>

> >

>

> its what the people of NI wanted voted for in the

> referendum

ONLY 790,000 people in NI voted in the referendum, 38% of them couldn't be bothered to get off their bums.

In 1973 they had a referendum to stay or leave the UK- and they voted 99% to stay in the UK

Now by sheer weight of numbers (of catholics) they vote Remain in the EU.

https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-population-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872318

the solution is for the catholics to move to Eire because all they want is unification and the EU is secondary to that or the Protestants to move to England and the Irish Catholics in England move to Ireland then they can get rid of the border altogether...should've done it years ago- it would've saved a lot of trouble

[Alan Medic]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > uncleglen Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Now Merkel is trying to stir up trouble by

> > saying that NI should

> > > stay in the EU customs union....sneaky or

> what?

> >

> > >

> >

> > its what the people of NI wanted voted for in

> the

> > referendum

>

> ONLY 790,000 people in NI voted in the referendum,

> 38% of them couldn't be bothered to get off their

> bums.

> In 1973 they had a referendum to stay or leave the

> UK- and they voted 99% to stay in the UK

> Now by sheer weight of numbers (of catholics) they

> vote Remain in the EU.

> https://www.newsletter.co.uk/news/catholic-populat

> ion-set-to-dwarf-protestants-in-years-ahead-1-7872

> 318

>

> the solution is for the catholics to move to Eire

> because all they want is unification and the EU is

> secondary to that or the Protestants to move to

> England and the Irish Catholics in England move to

> Ireland then they can get rid of the border

> altogether...should've done it years ago- it

> would've saved a lot of trouble

Your trolling doesn't merit a response. If you say it isn't, then you are an idiot. Maybe that's it? Either way isn't a good look.

[stepdown]

Suggesting you segregate on the basis of religion or send people away from their homes based on it is beneath any acceptable standard of debate.

You've shown your true colours, I won't be engaging with your posts again.

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > uncleglen Wrote:

> >

> --------------------------------------------------

>

> > -----

> > > Now Merkel is trying to stir up trouble by

> > saying that NI should

> > > stay in the EU customs union....sneaky or

> what?

> >

> > >

> >

> > its what the people of NI wanted voted for in

> the

> > referendum

>

> ONLY 790,000 people in NI voted in the referendum,

> 38% of them couldn't be bothered to get off their

> bums.

So what you?re saying is that only about a quarter could be bothered to vote to leave, presumably because the rest didn?t want to or didn?t want to enough to do anything about it

[Alan Medic]

This is an interesting read from someone who voted to leave:

https://threadreaderapp.com/thread/1181711773415755777.html

[diable rouge]

Apparently it was yesterday's Leave.EU xenophobic meme that pushed him. Did he not see the 'Breaking Point' meme over 3 years ago? Some Brexiters do seem to find it hard to accept that they climbed into bed with racists and xenophobes...

[diable rouge]

I was wondering with all this talk about an election what exactly will the Tories propose in their manifesto. Seems like a memo was sent yesterday that implied they would go for No Deal to stave off any of their disgruntled voters switching to the Brexit Party. Cue disgruntled One Nation Tories. Brexit, the gift that keeps on giving...

[JohnL]

diable rouge Wrote:

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> I was wondering with all this talk about an

> election what exactly will the Tories propose in

> their manifesto. Seems like a memo was sent

> yesterday that implied they would go for No Deal

> to stave off any of their disgruntled voters

> switching to the Brexit Party. Cue disgruntled One

> Nation Tories. Brexit, the gift that keeps on

> giving...

Boris has said he won't fight an election on a no deal platform.

https://www.theguardian.com/politics/live/2019/oct/09/brexit-latest-news-boris-johnson-plans-emergency-saturday-sitting-of-parliament-after-eu-summit-live-news

and he never lies :)

[uncleglen]

stepdown Wrote:

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> Suggesting you segregate on the basis of religion

> or send people away from their homes based on it

> is beneath any acceptable standard of debate.

>

> You've shown your true colours, I won't be

> engaging with your posts again.

The stats speak for themselves

https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/21/in-northern-ireland-there-is-a-strong-division-in-how-different-ethno-national-groups-voted-in-the-referendum/

[pk]

uncleglen Wrote:

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> stepdown Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > Suggesting you segregate on the basis of

> religion

> > or send people away from their homes based on

> it

> > is beneath any acceptable standard of debate.

> >

> > You've shown your true colours, I won't be

> > engaging with your posts again.

> The stats speak for themselves

> https://blogs.lse.ac.uk/brexit/2018/02/21/in-north

> ern-ireland-there-is-a-strong-division-in-how-diff

> erent-ethno-national-groups-voted-in-the-referendu

> m/

And your trusted source says that the trend since the referendum is pro-Remain such that less than 75% of leave voters would vote that way again

And that more educated people in all groups voted remain

But more generally your ideas about segregation based on religion are shameful

[stepdown]

pk Wrote:

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> And that more educated people in all groups voted

> remain

The voting differences between age groups really narrow (from memory almost disappear but can't find the analysis now) once you take education level into account, younger generations have higher levels of educational attainment.

EDIT: http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-education/

[JohnL]

stepdown Wrote:

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> pk Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > And that more educated people in all groups

> voted

> > remain

>

> The voting differences between age groups really

> narrow (from memory almost disappear but can't

> find the analysis now) once you take education

> level into account, younger generations have

> higher levels of educational attainment.

>

> EDIT:

> http://www.statsguy.co.uk/brexit-voting-and-educat

> ion/

Of course Leavers would say we've been indoctrinated by the evil globalisation system for longer LOL.

Just read Uncles post - WTF - that's an awful outdated idea..

[Alan Medic]

Interesting odds on Sterling in particular.

From Betfair.

[JohnL]

rumour that any labour MP voting for a Boris deal will get de-selected.

[Sue]

JohnL Wrote:

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> rumour that any labour MP voting for a Boris deal

> will get de-selected.

Rumour from where?

[diable rouge]

Media obsessed with the will they won't they (DUP) over NI customs etc while ignoring that this deal is economically worse than May's deal. So called sovereignty won't put food on your plate and pay the gas bill...

[Alan Medic]

Surely if there is a WA it won't get through the HOC. Maybe it's BJ's plan to garner support in a GE and return him with a majority.

[JohnL]

Deal is done apparently - must have been without the agreement of the DUP.

[JohnL]

Sue Wrote:

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> JohnL Wrote:

> --------------------------------------------------

> -----

> > rumour that any labour MP voting for a Boris

> deal

> > will get de-selected.

>

>

> Rumour from where?

Owen Jones :) but he is usually close to the leadership

"A Johnson deal is class war from above, a Tory heist, a scalpel taken to the country?s social fabric. And if a Labour MP votes for such a deal, their betrayal of the most basic reasons their party even exists means they should no longer be a Labour MP, that the party?s leadership should withdraw the whip, or the national executive committee should deselect them."

https://www.theguardian.com/commentisfree/2019/oct/16/johnson-brexit-deal-labour-mps-lose-whip

[malumbu]

Can the 52% tell me what they voted for

(a) Leave no ifs no buts and hang the consequences

(b) This nasty shiity deal that upsets most apart from the harder right that was to leave but understand that option(a) is too difficult, and is the closest that they will get to the UK to become a new Singapore (that special relationship with the US doesn't look great at the moment)

© the dog's breakfast of the May deal which compared to the two above would be damage limitation

(d) Norway or Norway+, Labour's default which economically would appear far more sensible but would be howls of surrender.

What a mess. Need a referendum on what ever comes up.

Far worse than even leaving, is having that duplicitous loathsome person running the country for another five years.

[JohnL]

malumbu Wrote:

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> Far worse than even leaving, is having that

> duplicitous loathsome person running the country

> for another five years.

I can't see him going a year without some kind of big scandal. Whether he'd just plough on Trump like I don't know.

[JohnL]

"*EU law on VAT will apply in Northern Ireland.

*UK shall be responsible for collecting VAT and excise.

*Special treatment for some goods - UK could choose to apply Ireland's VAT reduced rates and exemptions in NI.

*Regular review by Joint Committee"

Imagine if Theresa May suggested that (she may have at one stage).