Chain Gangs: A Viable Alternative?

[Scribe]

Every day we read or hear of more draconian cuts to public services, and how government bodies and independent think-tanks alike are struggling to find solutions to alleviate the pressure being felt across the spectrum of public services.

We do, however, have a potential source of manpower that is so-far largely redundant. Now, I'm not suggesting we introduce what we mentally envisage when the subject of chain gangs comes up in conversation i.e - prison warder on horseback, rolling a toothpick between the corners of his mouth, shotgun pointed skywards. No, I'm proposing a work force that is shackled, within reason, and are tasked with work such as assisting in the menial tasks that wouldn't otherwise threaten the livelihoods of free citizens - such as cleaning-up after flooding, painting railings and general manual labour that the state saves money by allocating the task to offenders. And it's worth remembering that eventually the Police could be reduced to a number that would scale-back/effect their visible presence on our streets, so a tougher precedent would be useful to set.

What are your views on introducing chain gangs into the UK penal system?

[HAL9000]

Under current laws convicted prisoners cannot be compelled to work - they would have to volunteer. I imagine only the relatively small percentage of Category D prisoners currently held in open prisons would be considered eligible (many of whom already work in the community) - the rest would probably escape at the slightest opportunity given the fairly minor consequences absconding attracts.

The idea is dead in the water - in my view.

[KidKruger]

A chain of working prisoners, shackled together would have to work on collective tasks that they can do while all chained in a line, without obstructing passers by or endangering them. The 'gang' would require policing, probably by a number of guards and the risk of snatches by prisoners' ex-colleagues would need to be considered.

I think a more rural-based application could work. Digging ditches, repairing fencing and painting walls.

What with all the human rights rules and regs it's an unlikely proposition though TBH.

[Scribe]

I wasn't aware of this present obstacle, Hal 9000. But do you think the majority of the general public would support a change in current legislation to accomadte this proposed measure?

This scenario would undoubtably put the proposal of introducing chain gangs at risk in its very infancy, KidKruger. Perhaps convicts could be put into a hypnotic trance during their time outside of the prison environment, with a pre-programmed hypnotic 'suggestion' mentally implanted in their subconscious that blocks them from escaping, voluntarily or otherwise?

[HAL9000]

HAL9000 Wrote:

-------------------------------------------------------

> Under current laws convicted prisoners cannot be compelled to work

This is wrong - British convicts can be compelled to work and refusal can invoke punishment. It is remand prisoners that cannot be compelled to work.

However, in practice, punishment involves loss of fairly minor privileges and, possibly, a little time that would otherwise have been credited for good behaviour. In most UK prisons, only a small percentage of prisoners are offered work, anyway - most are enrolled in educational classes or are confined in their cells for up to 23 hours a day.

[Jeremy]

Getting prisoners to work in a way which benefits society - yes

Public humiliation and forced hard labour - no

[acumenman]

Scribe wrote:- What are your views on introducing chain gangs into the UK penal system?

Well over due!

They should be made to work for their daily bread, and if they don't work, then no bread!

All violent criminals should start their sentences with a flogging, preferably administered by the victim.

SeanMcG will be wringing his hands with disappointment when he reads this post.

[david_carnell]

I suspect he'll be laughing at the sheer predictability of your responses, Steve.

[Scribe]

Jeremy, who said anything about public humiliation? Although I'm happy to admit that my OP may not be as clear as it should be. I, as a taxpayer, wouldn't want chain gangs performing pointless tasks just for punishments sake, such as breaking rocks all day with sledgehammers. No, I would want them performing constructive tasks, such as providing manual labour in repairing the motorways, contributing to the cleaning-up effort after disasters. Jobs they can feel proud of, not putting themselves in a position where they run the risk of having rotten vegetables and dog feces hurled in their direction. Alhough I'm willing to concede that some tasks would expose them to the general public.

Acumenman, I'd prefer it if you kept this thread free of any personal issues that may exist between you and this SeanMcG, if you don't mind. If SeanMcG has served a custodial sentence, for whatever reason, in the past; as far as I'm concerned, he's done his time and is perfectly welcome to comment and offer constructive criticism on this thread without fear of any prejudice you hold against former inmates. In short, this isn't the exercise yard, so play nice.

[LadyDeliah]

Don't anti slavery treaties make it illegal to force anyone to work?

Another thing is the possible impact on local businesses who would be undercut by the free labour of the prisoners and might not be able to compete. I think there were many problems with this in America in the past with prison governors being able to outbid private companies for contracts.

[Laddy Muck]

I fully embrace this. Chain gangs could march up and down my road sweeping up the leaves and berries which my hawthorne tree deposits every year: they create such a mess on my otherwise pleasant street and it would certainly save me the task on a Sunday morning. Whilst they are at it, these criminals could clear up all the poo which has emanated from my neighbours' obese and overly pampered cats. Incarceration for their violations of the law is not in itself a sufficient deterrent for their unintelligible, felonious skulls.

It could be rather amusing for us law-abiding types. Indeed, one could make a day out of it. You know, following our Sunday morning latte and reading of the Daily Mail, the childen and the grandchildren could watch: teach them the consequences of not abiding by the law at an early age. But the proposals would have to be fair. It simply wouldn't do for all categories of villains to undertake the same task. A mugger, for example could be made to remove graffiti, whilst the drunk driver could collect the hawthorne berries shed by my hawthorne tree: one berry at a time. In the interests of true justice, punishment would have to be commensurate with crime. Indeed: my grandchildren could say "ooh look grandma, that man must have been very bad because he's picking up the hawthorne berries". In fact, wrongdoers could even be made to wear labels: shoplifter, burglar, fare-dodger etc.

Ah, but why stop there. These miscreants will have, undoubtedly, come from families that are comprised of other miscreants. In order to stem this culture of lawlessness within such families, their partners and sprogs should, too, be forced to partake. And in areas where such problem families are seemingly ubiquitous, a whole estate - for example - could be drafted in. But why stop there, how about the entire population of a perceived rough and run down area?

The possibilities are endless. Let us waste no further time. This is a fantastic opportunity to impress upon the minds of these wrongdoers that the soft option of prison will no longer do - they need to have instilled into them a sense of guilt, of embarrassment, of shame and humiliation, so that the likes of me may enjoy a better quality of life and sleep more easily at night - of course.

(Forgive this, esteemed Chair. I noticed that my football hooligan alter-ego had not as yet been deactivated, and I simply could not resist such an opportunity as this one).

[SeanMacGabhann]

Strangely enough I'm coming around to the idea of capital punishment for people who keep coming back to the forum despite repeated bans

No manners some people

[DJKillaQueen]

Plus there are already schemes in existence, such as 'payback' and of course community service that do send offenders to work. The problem is that we have three million and more unemployed in this country......so are not short of man-power.

[Peckhamgatecrasher]

From what I know of SeanMcG, Scribe, he is a complete degenerate and sociopath, and frankly I'd throw away the key.

Some people are beyond rehabilitation.

Nor should he get the vote.

[acumenman]

^:))

Scribe wrote:- If SeanMcG has served a custodial sentence, for whatever reason, in the past; as far as I'm concerned, he's done his time and is perfectly welcome to comment and offer constructive criticism on this thread without fear of any prejudice you hold against former inmates. In short, this isn't the exercise yard, so play nice.

Soooo sorry mr scribe sir it wont happen again, even though it made me laugh out loud.

[acumenman]

The three million unemployed are just that and not working for your benefits does not benefit them or society.

There are plenty of jobs to be done around the place, so why aren't they put to good use and maybe learn a trade for when they get out.

[DJKillaQueen]

Even organising community and voluntary work has a cost to it. Materials, transport etc still have to be paid for. Who will pay for that? After all, the work that needs doing is work that no-one can afford to finance often.

[acumenman]

The tax payer, they always cough up.

[Ridgley]

Interesting topic, I saw a programme on this a few years ago in this particular state in the Deep South of America it seems to work quite a few inmates did not reoffend as for over here we have crime but I don?t really see the punishment.

[fyvum]

Many offenders are rather like bicycles Ridgley, they work better when they are attached to a chain.